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I also read on the forums that "The Descent" was one of James Jacobs recommended books.
You're probably referring to this thread among others.
Now that you mention it...I wonder how much of that influence will carry over into Paizo's vision of the "Darklands." If my newly developed hunch is correct, we may see a different take on the old (and somewhat tired, IMO) subterranean realms of fantasy setting. Now I really can't wait for Into the Darklands.
I also need to get a copy of "The Descent."
"Pathfinder" as a name was a hard birth. There was a while where we had a HUGE whiteboard covered in "fantasy" words, hoping to find a good pair and hit gold in vein similar to "Blackmoor," "Greyhawk," "Warhammer," "Dragonlance," "Ravenloft," "Iron Kingdoms," etc etc. There was a while where I was a big advocate of "Morningstar" for its varied connotations (seems silly in retrospect; and there's already a game out by that name). In the end, these were all just too obscure in their references, as we needed something that screamed both "fantasy" and "Adventure Path." So "Pathfinder" came out of one meeting and no one ever topped it, so it stuck! And it's since grown on everybody pretty well.
Now that you mention it...I wonder how much of that influence will carry over into Paizo's vision of the "Darklands." If my newly developed hunch is correct, we may see a different take on the old (and somewhat tired, IMO) subterranean realms of fantasy setting. Now I really can't wait for Into the Darklands.
I also need to get a copy of "The Descent."
Significant, it regards to both the film and novel. For fans of the film, there's a treat coming up for you in PF#16. But yeah, the Darklands are NOT the Underdark. They're not some underground super highway. They're pretty much the largest, most inhospitable wilderness Golarion has to offer. Starting in PF#13 the Pathfinder's Journal takes to the Underdark and ol' Eando does not have a good time of it. That'll be the first hint of what Into the Darklands has in store...
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"Pathfinder" as a name was a hard birth. There was a while where we had a HUGE whiteboard covered in "fantasy" words, hoping to find a good pair and hit gold in vein similar to "Blackmoor," "Greyhawk," "Warhammer," "Dragonlance," "Ravenloft," "Iron Kingdoms," etc etc. There was a while where I was a big advocate of "Morningstar" for its varied connotations (seems silly in retrospect; and there's already a game out by that name). In the end, these were all just too obscure in their references, as we needed something that screamed both "fantasy" and "Adventure Path." So "Pathfinder" came out of one meeting and no one ever topped it, so it stuck! And it's since grown on everybody pretty well.
What were some of the other names?
What were some of the other names?
"Chainmail"
"Champions""Everquest"
"Smurf: the Smurfening"
They had early access to forth edition D&D and saw the Pathfinder Class in there and decided it would be a great name for their setting.
They had early access to forth edition D&D and saw the Pathfinder Class in there and decided it would be a great name for their setting.
I'd prefer not to speculate about the order in which these things came about...
There was a while where I was a big advocate of "Morningstar" for its varied connotationsIn a setting where Asmodeus is an ascendent power, Morningstar would indeed be an awesome name.
I know, right!?
What were some of the other names?"Pathfinder" as a name was a hard birth. There was a while where we had a HUGE whiteboard covered in "fantasy" words, hoping to find a good pair and hit gold in vein similar to "Blackmoor," "Greyhawk," "Warhammer," "Dragonlance," "Ravenloft," "Iron Kingdoms," etc etc. There was a while where I was a big advocate of "Morningstar" for its varied connotations (seems silly in retrospect; and there's already a game out by that name). In the end, these were all just too obscure in their references, as we needed something that screamed both "fantasy" and "Adventure Path." So "Pathfinder" came out of one meeting and no one ever topped it, so it stuck! And it's since grown on everybody pretty well.
For some reason, "Generica" got shut down, as did "Dragonlance"... I don't get it....
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In relation to upcoming Darklands info, I'll quote others on the board in similar situations: *SQUEEE!!*
On a separate, but related, note: I find it interesting how certain ideas seem to work their way to the surface at around the same time. Way back during the WotC Setting competition that resulted in the birth of Eberron, I threw my hat into the ring with an idea for a setting called "Starspeaker"--you can see some of my setting info here. (Sorry about the crappy pop-up ads...I can't afford to pay for a website that I don't have time to update regularly.)
I was surprised at how much of Eberron was similar to thoughts I had in my head about that setting. (I'm not accusing anyone of stealing, since most of those thoughts never left my head, so they couldn't have possibly known about them.)
Similarly, one of my ideas for this setting was to use the Deities and Demigods "divine rank" mechanic...allowing characters to gather the pieces of long-dead gods to gain divinity. I was pleased to see the "mortals become gods" idea crop up in Pathfinder.
Heck, it's also funny that the main kingdom in my setting is on the verges of becoming a democracy, just like Andoran did. Weird.
All this is to say that, I'm very glad to see that so many ideas that I've found provocative and entertaining have found their way from other minds into Pathfinder. It's already my favorite published setting, and just keeps getting better with each new announcement.
They had early access to forth edition D&D and saw the Pathfinder Class in there and decided it would be a great name for their setting.I'd prefer not to speculate about the order in which these things came about...
Well it was a theory *evil grin*
And here I was thinking it was named after Natty Bumppo <<sob>>
Or Aliera's sword in Steven Brust's novels
Or the Nissan vehicle
And here the name Pathfinder is the only thing I haven't liked about the Paizo line.
Perhaps its the rather confusing way in which they stick it in front of EVERYTHING.
After reading the Gazeteer (which I loved), I got the feeling the word is pretty much interchangeable with 'Adventurer', so the only point it serves is to be the 'new kewl word' for an old concept.
'Scarred lands' and 'Ptolus' are cool... pathfinder, not so much.
It sounds like a Boyscout merit badge.
After reading the Gazeteer (which I loved), I got the feeling the word is pretty much interchangeable with 'Adventurer', so the only point it serves is to be the 'new kewl word' for an old concept.It's possible to be an adventurer who's not a Pathfinder.
Well reading the Gazetteer a Pathfinder is a adventurer who belongs to the Pathfinder Society. From what I can tell you don't have to be a Pathfinder to be an 'adventurer',
As for Markus' comment regarding it being just kewl word and in front of everything. Pathfinder is a brand name and is presented before everything in order to identify everything that is under Paizo's Pathfinder setting. They could have just as easily said "Golarian" but if you ask me "Pathfinder" is easier to remember and identify with. It's very similar to the way Wizards has used "Ebberon" or "Forgotten Realms".
And here the name Pathfinder is the only thing I haven't liked about the Paizo line.
Perhaps its the rather confusing way in which they stick it in front of EVERYTHING.
Turns out, if we don't put "Pathfinder" in the name of a product line, everybody gets confused about how it's related to our world and sales drop - hence the change from "GameMastery Modules" to "Pathfinder Modules."
Branding: it's weird.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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And here the name Pathfinder is the only thing I haven't liked about the Paizo line.
Perhaps its the rather confusing way in which they stick it in front of EVERYTHING.
Turns out, if we don't put "Pathfinder" in the name of a product line, everybody gets confused about how it's related to our world and sales drop - hence the change from "GameMastery Modules" to "Pathfinder Modules."
Branding: it's weird.
Just call everything "Coke."
Just call everything "Coke."
Worked pretty well for Coke.
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Contributor
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I don't know. Somehow I'm not sure it would work too well, here, though:
"Coke Modules" sound more like units of sale.
"Coke Adventure Path" sounds like a walk through a part of town I'd rather steer clear of.
The "Coke Chronicles" sounds more like an after school special (...do they still make those?).
"Coke Companion"...sounds like the wife/girlfriend character from any gangster movie, a la Goodfellas or Casino.
Anyway...I like Pathfinder...it's cool to be reminded of my favorite RPG products every time I pass a certain SUV. ;)
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I don't know. Somehow I'm not sure it would work too well, here, though:
"Coke Modules" sound more like units of sale.
"Coke Adventure Path" sounds like a walk through a part of town I'd rather steer clear of.
The "Coke Chronicles" sounds more like an after school special (...do they still make those?).
"Coke Companion"...sounds like the wife/girlfriend character from any gangster movie, a la Goodfellas or Casino.
Not to mention the inevitable lawsuit.
And here the name Pathfinder is the only thing I haven't liked about the Paizo line.
It sounds like a Boyscout merit badge.
I like the way Pathfinder sounds, as well as the conception behind it, though I agree it gives a different feel than good fantasy names give. Maybe because I was a scout? Having roped two players from non-scout backgrounds (one young, one old -- both new to Paizo products) into an alpha playtest last week, I can report that they responded postiviely to both the RPG and the name.
And Kirth, I'm glad to hear that I wasn't the only person to think of Natty Bumppo. (Whom I have named a halfling after...)
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For fans of the film, there's a treat coming up for you in PF#16.YEAH!!!
Did I mention that they started filming Descent 2 last May?
I heard that the author of The Descent has another book called Deeper. I understand that's a sequel in book world to the Descent. I wonder whether this is the case for the film, too.
I have to say that I really liked the Descent. If you've ever been spelunking, the Descent is that that, like the Blair Witch Project is to getting lost in the woods. Plus, I really likes the branch of "humanity" down under. Neat and somewhat believable.
Anyhow, I'm coming across two camps regarding the Descent: (1) Loved it v. (2) Thought it was lame. I'm in no. 1.
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Turns out, if we don't put "Pathfinder" in the name of a product line, everybody gets confused about how it's related to our world and sales drop - hence the change from "GameMastery Modules" to "Pathfinder Modules." Branding: it's weird.
I have to admit, in the beginning, I wasn't sure if the Modules took place in the same setting as Pathfinder.. I thought you guys were aiming at setting independent adventures.
Like Falcon's Hollow was supposed to be that little town under a mountain that's in trouble... easily placed in any campaign setting.
Or atleast that's the impression I got early on. :)
Anyhow, I'm coming across two camps regarding the Descent: (1) Loved it v. (2) Thought it was lame. I'm in no. 1.
Descent, that's the movie with the group of British chicks that go cave climbing and find themselves being hunted by morlock-like humans right? I liked that movie, I just wish they told us what those creatures were doing down there.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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... There was a while where I was a big advocate of "Morningstar" for its varied connotations (seems silly in retrospect; and there's already a game out by that name)...
Well, there's already a Pathfinder game, too. (By Milton Bradley.)
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Anyhow, I'm coming across two camps regarding the Descent: (1) Loved it v. (2) Thought it was lame. I'm in no. 1.Descent, that's the movie with the group of British chicks that go cave climbing and find themselves being hunted by morlock-like humans right? I liked that movie, I just wish they told us what those creatures were doing down there.
I think so. There's an extremely claustrophobic moment in that movie that scarred me more than a horror movie has ever managed to do before or since. I've never felt so nauseous...Except for the needle-pit in one of the Saws...
Spoiler for the film follows.
U
Creative Director
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Yeah, the Jeff Long book "Descent" is much more epic than the movie. They share the title and the scary underground monsters... but they're very different. The book is basically about the discovery and exploration of an immense series of underground caves... a real-world Darklands, in other words... that's ruled by a race of creatures that are so violent that they may just be the origins of all the world's Hell/underworld myths.
It's a great book. The sequel, "Deeper" is rather quite good too. The movie's great as well, and IT is getting a sequal next year also.
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Yeah, the Jeff Long book "Descent" is much more epic than the movie.
I've been in all sorts of caves, and enjoy them, but that movie creeped me the heck out.
Caves? Cool.
Squeezing through passageways that require me to inch forward, a thousand tons of earth and stone pressing down on me? No thanks, I'll be the one running for the entrance screaming. While everyone else gets eaten by morlocks or buried in a cave-in or discovers one of the lost orifices of That Which Should Not Be (complete with eerie piping music), I'll be at the 7/11 eating a pint of Ben & Jerry's to 'calm my nerves.'
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I've been in all sorts of caves, and enjoy them, but that movie creeped me the heck out.Caves? Cool.
Squeezing through passageways that require me to inch forward, a thousand tons of earth and stone pressing down on me? No thanks, I'll be the one running for the entrance screaming. While everyone else gets eaten by morlocks or buried in a cave-in or discovers one of the lost orifices of That Which Should Not Be (complete with eerie piping music), I'll be at the 7/11 eating a pint of Ben & Jerry's to 'calm my nerves.'
I agree completely. I took my students to Hoover Dam and it felt odd being that far underground. Almost as if you could feel the weight of the mountain pressing down on you. I'm not normally claustrophobic
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Yeah, the Jeff Long book "Descent" is much more epic than the movie.I've been in all sorts of caves, and enjoy them, but that movie creeped me the heck out.
Caves? Cool.
Squeezing through passageways that require me to inch forward, a thousand tons of earth and stone pressing down on me? No thanks, I'll be the one running for the entrance screaming. While everyone else gets eaten by morlocks or buried in a cave-in or discovers one of the lost orifices of That Which Should Not Be (complete with eerie piping music), I'll be at the 7/11 eating a pint of Ben & Jerry's to 'calm my nerves.'
OMG that was funny!!! LOL ROTFL! Thank you Set for that piece of off-handed humor - it just struck the right funny bone here and I'm laughing in my office!! I'm sure my coworkers think I'm going nutty in here!!!
***image of you eating the ice-cream while pale as a ghost holding the wall for support and hyperventilating*** LOL
Robert
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Descent, that's the movie with the group of British chicks that go cave climbing and find themselves being hunted by morlock-like humans right? I liked that movie, I just wish they told us what those creatures were doing down there.
Living. Habitating. Surviving.
That was their habitat. They had evolved - (or failed to evolve) into an underground dwelling species - had echo-location and/or tremor-sense in a way as they were sightless.
They were indigineous to that cave system and the gals stumbled upon them unfortunately.
One of the few movies that truly did give me the creeps to the bone - major props for that! (The Ring would be the other recent movie for that.)
The book was fabulous too - similar in theme - but not related. The boo was indeed epic and fabulous! I loved it.
Robert