I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
In fact, I am sincerely looking for a forum that really is ALL anti-4E folks. Considering almost every other forum out there is pro-4E, and the dwindling number of negative comments on 4E and the hiding or banning of anti-4e members from many forums leads to this conclusion.
I would like to find a place where I can feel welcome instead of despised for my aggravated assault on 4th Edition (but, yet, it's perfectly fine to perpetuate the blindly-faithful, zealousness of pro-4e people by letting them rant on how wonderful it is?)
If anyone knows of such a place, please link it to me. Thanks. It'd be much appreciated and I can help lead other anti-4e folks to the forums to feel both satisfied and secure in their opinions and right to practice their 1st amendment.
Then you won't have to hear from us ever again, everyone gets what they want. :D
Director of Brand Strategy
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Why not start your own messageboard on the topic? There are a lot of free php messageboard apps out there and getting a dns entry isn't very expensive either. The amount of money you save by not buying 4e will more than cover the cost. If you link me to it when you get it off the ground, I'll be the first to sign up.
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I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
In fact, I am sincerely looking for a forum that really is ALL anti-4E folks. Considering almost every other forum out there is pro-4E, and the dwindling number of negative comments on 4E and the hiding or banning of anti-4e members from many forums leads to this conclusion.
I would like to find a place where I can feel welcome instead of despised for my aggravated assault on 4th Edition (but, yet, it's perfectly fine to perpetuate the blindly-faithful, zealousness of pro-4e people by letting them rant on how wonderful it is?)
If anyone knows of such a place, please link it to me. Thanks. It'd be much appreciated and I can help lead other anti-4e folks to the forums to feel both satisfied and secure in their opinions and right to practice their 1st amendment.
Then you won't have to hear from us ever again, everyone gets what they want. :D
Though I'd still post here and buy Paizo stuff; I'd love to find such a board as well. It would certainly curb my anti-4th Ed rants on these boards. Let me know if you find one Razz.
While I certainly think you should be able to talk about whatever you like, for or against something, I don't understand why you would purposely look to go talk about something negative.
Why not find something you DO like and go talk about that? Interested in 3.5 still? Well, you're in the right place! Get heavily involved in the Pathfinder RPG stuff. Focus on the things you like in life and avoid the things you don't... you'll be a lot happier.
Once again, I support you expressing whatever opinion you have (and that is what the people disagreeing are doing too), I just don't get why you would look to focus on something negative.
Sean Mahoney
I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
Why would other people get flamed for your opinions? ;)
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I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
Hmmm. I play 3.x, Pathfinder RPG (Alpha), and 4E. Could I participate in such a forum?
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While I certainly think you should be able to talk about whatever you like, for or against something, I don't understand why you would purposely look to go talk about something negative.
Why not find something you DO like and go talk about that? Interested in 3.5 still? Well, you're in the right place! Get heavily involved in the Pathfinder RPG stuff. Focus on the things you like in life and avoid the things you don't... you'll be a lot happier.
Once again, I support you expressing whatever opinion you have (and that is what the people disagreeing are doing too), I just don't get why you would look to focus on something negative.
Sean Mahoney
Wife currently being raped? Dude, birds are singing and children are playing. The sun's shining. Focus on the positive. The sooner you do, the sooner you can drown out her cries for help. LOL.
But seriously, there's a lot of crud in the world. There are anti-government movements, anti-tax movements, MADD, the list goes on. I'm sure most of those folks are doing okay.
Wife currently being raped? Dude, birds are singing and children are playing. The sun's shining. Focus on the positive. The sooner you do, the sooner you can drown out her cries for help. LOL.
Wonderful analogy. Tasteful and refined.
I would like to find a place where I can feel welcome instead of despised for my aggravated assault on 4th Edition (but, yet, it's perfectly fine to perpetuate the blindly-faithful, zealousness of pro-4e people by letting them rant on how wonderful it is?)
First of all, you're free to do whatever you like, and if you really want to find such a board, I wish you the best of luck.
I'm just a little confused as to the "why" of it. I'll be the first to admit that I was severely disappointed with the complete change of the D&D game that 4E brought about, and not a little pissed off at the horrible marketing campaign that was used to promote it. I vented, a lot. I'm still nursing sore feelings. I'm just not sure what continuing to b%!** and moan about it is supposed to accomplish.
I'd much rather continue playtesting Pathfinder as a positive outlet for my energy. My friends and I get to enjoy ourselves and we get to support a company that puts out quality product and cares about quality interaction with its fanbase.
Wonderful analogy. Tasteful and refined.
Wife currently being raped? Dude, birds are singing and children are playing. The sun's shining. Focus on the positive. The sooner you do, the sooner you can drown out her cries for help. LOL.
Don't try to understand fey using human logic. Instead, smile, nod, and hope that the pixie warmage doesn't turn You into a living fireworks display. (Though if she does, at least it's one of those conditions that doesn't last too long...)
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Hmmm. I play 3.x, Pathfinder RPG (Alpha), and 4E. Could I participate in such a forum?I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
Only if that participation were limited to hatred of 4e. If you post anything that could be misconstrued as positive about the system, this would be grounds for banning. And banning is an at-will power, so it can be done as often as necessary.
I think we do need a bestantifourepageintheuniverse, which would be just like Maddox's page, just it would be focussed on 4e. That guy really knows how to hate and let others know about it! :D
Anything that's brought together by being 'Anti-XYZ' never lasts long
There are literally millions of people who would tell you otherwise, were they still alive.
I mean, I don't like 4th Edition. But why would anyone want to spend their time writing rants about it. Kinda sad.
To get it out of his system! To have a couple of really long, liberating outcries about that piece of **** they released/did/didn't/allowed/talked about/wrote a song about/put in their blog/exists, and have people reply with "damn straight" (because those who say otherwise are banned and have their posts deleted.
Something like that isn't for someone who just doesn't care about X, or has a vague dislike about X. You have to be really pissed off.
I think Razz is really pissed off at 4e and wizards (at times, I wasn't far from that myself)
Wife currently being raped?
And that is the the whole reference we should base our assessment of life around. Lost my job? Well, could be worse - boss could be raping my wife while he fires me. Car is totally wrecked? Well, could be worse - it could have crashed because my wife lost control over it because she was being raped. Wife dead? Well, at least she died instantly, not while being raped.
In fact, screw the wife (with her consent please). Let's use "universe still exists?" That way no one may ever complain about anything ever again and all atrocities (except of destroying the universe) are allowed. And if the multiverse theory turns out to be true....
Not everything is comparative. Sometimes, things are bad and people are annoyed about it. Could be worse - of course it could be, but that doesn
t change the fact that it's bad.
Don't try to understand fey using human logic. Instead, smile, nod, and hope that the pixie warmage doesn't turn You into a living fireworks display. (Though if she does, at least it's one of those conditions that doesn't last too long...)
Warmages suck. I'll take a regular PF evoker every day of the week.
Hmmm. I play 3.x, Pathfinder RPG (Alpha), and 4E. Could I participate in such a forum?I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
Only if you put at least 0.73 flames of 4e in each of your posts.
Haha! KaeYoss takes on the world and wins! Kae... lay off the caffeine buddy! :D
Seriously though, take a pixie who likes to blow things up, deprive her of coffee and we'll be getting to that whole End of the Universe scenario. ;)
And I do agree that the PfRPG Evoker trumps the Complete Arcane Warmage. I mostly just use the term "warmage" now as an idea of the archetype I'm speaking of. :)
/me renames reality.sys and presses the reset button
I prefer Evoker to Warm Age any day of the week :P
And if you deprive a pixie of coffee, you have a little winged freak who yawns at you threatingly.
Hm... www.thebestdndpageintheuniverse.com is still free. I think I'm off registering some sites, making b/w pictures of myself with a pirate cap and eye patch, and start really laying into wizards. Expect insults, descriptions of brutal violence towards dragonborn, self-aggrandisation, and rants about things like "OMFG, CoDZilla, silo-ing" ;-)
I prefer Evoker to Warm Age any day of the week :P
And if you deprive a pixie of coffee, you have a little winged freak who yawns at you threatingly.
Wow, You get off easy. The one I know start off hurling the spellbooks of defeated mages at You before unleasing a "sonic attack" that would make a banshee blush. |\O_o/|
Try the WotC boards, and more specifically, the FR boards.
They are about 90% haters over there. In fact, the largest group of anti-WotC hangs out right on there own boards.
Its a wonder I haven't been banned there yet. <evil grin>
To get it out of his system!
By clinging to your anger and establishing venues specifically to feed it, you'd hardly be getting it out of your system -- you'd be encouraging it to grow. Let it go. 4th edition doesn't even exist for you, if you ignore it (I am!). Play 3.5 or Pathfinder if you prefer.
Shoot, there are people who still play 1e -- my friend in Rochester, for example, who tells me, "I don't like that the 3rd edition rules make sense. That was the whole charm of AD&D, that no one understood why anything followed the rules it did, and half the time you couldn't find the right table anyway. Now that was a real fantasy game! It's no fun if you know what you're doing!"
I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
Have you ever considered that maybe it's the fact that your comments are almost always trollish and insanely hyperbolic that leads to the treatment you get from others, and not the like or dislike you have for 4E?
Try the WotC boards
Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why spend energy tearing something down that isn't hurting you when you could spend energy supporting something else? If something is worthy of no support, then it will eventually collapse on its own, while the thing you support will grow stronger and flourish.
This.
We really dont need an anti-anything forum. If forum drama is what you crave, hit any World of Warcraft Realm forum instead.
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Senior Software Developer
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What you are looking for is a blog. Say it with me: "Blog".
I support this idea. Razz, you come by here once a week and make a handful of posts which are clearly designed to piss people off. Then you disappear for another week. Please knock it off.
If you want to actually engage in conversation here, go ahead. Support your positions with cogent, non-inflammatory discussion. But you're not doing that.
Please stop polluting our messageboards. Either take part in the conversation, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.
(I remain unchanged in my desire that these messageboards be the best place anywhere on the internet to discuss 4th edition. Positive or negative.)
I agree. A blog might be the best choice. Or a video or 6 on youtube.
Only if that participation were limited to hatred of 4e. If you post anything that could be misconstrued as positive about the system, this would be grounds for banning. And banning is an at-will power, so it can be done as often as necessary.Hmmm. I play 3.x, Pathfinder RPG (Alpha), and 4E. Could I participate in such a forum?I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.
As long as you don't make banning some lame once per encounter power.
I think Razz is really pissed off at 4e and wizards (at times, I wasn't far from that myself)
At times? Dude, who are you kidding? You seem as angry as I am and I'm a seething Blackhole of hatered for 4E. The first step is embracing who you are. Come to the Dakside, we have cookies.
And I do agree that the PfRPG Evoker trumps the Complete Arcane Warmage. I mostly just use the term "warmage" now as an idea of the archetype I'm speaking of. :)
/me renames reality.sys and presses the reset button
I like that. I do that alot myself: Name's cool, but what it represents suck, keep name, toss thing, put name on new thing new thing has cool name. Win-Win.
I have been IP banned there...Try the WotC boards, and more specifically, the FR boards.
They are about 90% haters over there. In fact, the largest group of anti-WotC hangs out right on there own boards.
Its a wonder I haven't been banned there yet. <evil grin>
*High five* Good job!
What you are looking for is a blog. Say it with me: "Blog".I support this idea. Razz, you come by here once a week and make a handful of posts which are clearly designed to piss people off. Then you disappear for another week. Please knock it off.
If you want to actually engage in conversation here, go ahead. Support your positions with cogent, non-inflammatory discussion. But you're not doing that.
Please stop polluting our messageboards. Either take part in the conversation, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.
(I remain unchanged in my desire that these messageboards be the best place anywhere on the internet to discuss 4th edition. Positive or negative.)
I'm sorry Gary, but I think Razz is fine. The simple fact is that I think Razz has gotten more hostile due to the sheer number of 4E fans that kind of follow him around as he posts saying "Shut up Idiot!" every time he tries to make a point. WHile I agree Razz gets a little vague in his ideas, not everone can argue in a calm articulat manor. Believe me, it took me weeks after hearing about 4E and the changes to FR to open my mouth on the subject and not sound like I had touretts.
Wife currently being raped? Dude, birds are singing and children are playing. The sun's shining. Focus on the positive. The sooner you do, the sooner you can drown out her cries for help. LOL.
But seriously, there's a lot of crud in the world. There are anti-government movements, anti-tax movements, MADD, the list goes on. I'm sure most of those folks are doing okay.
So based on all your examples, the point of such a board would be the hope / goal to have 4E changed and 3.5 brought back?
Sean Mahoney
I'm sorry Gary, but I think Razz is fine. The simple fact is that I think Razz has gotten more hostile due to the sheer number of 4E fans that kind of follow him around as he posts saying "Shut up Idiot!" every time he tries to make a point. WHile I agree Razz gets a little vague in his ideas, not everone can argue in a calm articulat manor. Believe me, it took me weeks after hearing about 4E and the changes to FR to open my mouth on the subject and not sound like I had touretts.
Actually Razz has the singular distinction of getting himself semi-flamed even by some anti 4E posters. Mainly to insure that their own well reasoned and exquisitely crafted rebuttal to some pro 4E post is not dragged down by association.
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So based on all your examples, the point of such a board would be the hope / goal to have 4E changed and 3.5 brought back?Sean Mahoney
Maybe that's what Razz wants since he was speaking to preserving 3.5. What I was trying to say is that it would be perfectly acceptable to have a board with one mission: bash 4e. The hope would be that 4e is pulled due to poor sales.
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I suspect that in the event of poor sales, it wouldn't be a case of 4E being pulled and replaced with 3.x, but rather the corporate abandonment of D&D altogether. A few years ago I would have considered that a bad thing. Now I'm not so sure how I feel about it.
Maybe that's what Razz wants since he was speaking to preserving 3.5. What I was trying to say is that it would be perfectly acceptable to have a board with one mission: bash 4e. The hope would be that 4e is pulled due to poor sales.
They wouldn't drop it, its a valuable IP even if they don't make it work, they'd sell it.
Razz - If you build it...they will come.
Shoot, there are people who still play 1e -- my friend in Rochester, for example, who tells me, "I don't like that the 3rd edition rules make sense. That was the whole charm of AD&D, that no one understood why anything followed the rules it did, and half the time you couldn't find the right table anyway. Now that was a real fantasy game! It's no fun if you know what you're doing!"
I would kill to play a first edition game again. If you and he ever ever meet up in NYC for some reason I'll drive an hour south to meet you and impose. Man, I'd even rent an office we could play in.
They wouldn't drop it, its a valuable IP even if they don't make it work, they'd sell it.I suspect that in the event of poor sales, it wouldn't be a case of 4E being pulled and replaced with 3.x, but rather the corporate abandonment of D&D altogether. A few years ago I would have considered that a bad thing. Now I'm not so sure how I feel about it.
Maybe that's what Razz wants since he was speaking to preserving 3.5. What I was trying to say is that it would be perfectly acceptable to have a board with one mission: bash 4e. The hope would be that 4e is pulled due to poor sales.
I doubt they'd sell it. They might licence the P&P RPG to some other RPG company but the real money here is the IPs value for computer games, MMOs as well as other forms of media like movies and TV. They could utterly abandon the P&P aspect of Dungeons & Dragons and the IP would still be very valuable.
Try the WotC boardsNever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey!
What are you, a politician?
You mis-quoted me in such a way that you made me look like I was a supporter of theirs!
Just because I am a mere 12 posts short of the 8000 mark over there, I can promise you that 99% of them have been negative since the Gencon '07 announcment.
In fact, I've even received PMs from disgruntled employees I've mocked, and even two warnings in one day. The ice I skate on is quite thin over there, I assure you.
They ruined D&D as far as I'm concerned, and thats the bottom line, but I now choose to devout my 'positive posting' over here at Paizo, which I consider D&D's 'true successor'. Hanging out there and being negative 24/7 was just making me hate the hobby altogether, so I strongly recommend to everyone to NOT wallow in endless 4e-hate, but move on and embrace something new you can love.
Geeze... that last part was so full of "rainbows and bunnies" I almost puked....
I'm sorry Gary, but I think Razz is fine. The simple fact is that I think Razz has gotten more hostile due to the sheer number of 4E fans that kind of follow him around as he posts saying "Shut up Idiot!" every time he tries to make a point. WHile I agree Razz gets a little vague in his ideas, not everone can argue in a calm articulat manor. Believe me, it took me weeks after hearing about 4E and the changes to FR to open my mouth on the subject and not sound like I had touretts.What you are looking for is a blog. Say it with me: "Blog".I support this idea. Razz, you come by here once a week and make a handful of posts which are clearly designed to piss people off. Then you disappear for another week. Please knock it off.
If you want to actually engage in conversation here, go ahead. Support your positions with cogent, non-inflammatory discussion. But you're not doing that.
Please stop polluting our messageboards. Either take part in the conversation, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.
(I remain unchanged in my desire that these messageboards be the best place anywhere on the internet to discuss 4th edition. Positive or negative.)
From what I've seen, I would have to say that he hasn't got any more hostile. Instead, he has remained consistent in the amount of hostility he has given off. I don't remember a time when he was not completely hostile toward 4e on these forums.
If someone said something like, "3rd edition is for children, grown-ups play 4e," I would suspect that people would react in the same way to them as they had to Razz. I don't think it what you like or dislike, it is how the that like or dislike is expressed which is causing the problems.
I suspect that in the event of poor sales, it wouldn't be a case of 4E being pulled and replaced with 3.x, but rather the corporate abandonment of D&D altogether. A few years ago I would have considered that a bad thing. Now I'm not so sure how I feel about it.
Maybe that's what Razz wants since he was speaking to preserving 3.5. What I was trying to say is that it would be perfectly acceptable to have a board with one mission: bash 4e. The hope would be that 4e is pulled due to poor sales.
This is the thing I think. The battle wont truly be over for many until there is a guarantee that Wizards of the Coast wont be able to violate the D&D name again in the manner that they have violated it with 4th edition. If Wizards of the Coast lost D&D today I think I would stand up and applaud. I mean honestly think about this, pushing all ranting and raving aside. There have been new editions of other games but I have never seen one that went this far from what it was at its roots. GURPS has essentially remained the same GURPS down through all of its incarnations, a little streamlining here and there and some minor changes and cosmetic upgrades but it is still GURPS, the same thing with the World of Darkness, they changed one core book with all of the standard rules in it this last time around but it is still basically WoD, the fluff has changed some, and the system has clanged a little but it is basically the same, you can play vampires, werewolves, changlings, mages, prometheans are a new addition, and hunters will be along soon changed somewhat but here nonetheless, but nobody tried to give them a system of at will, encounter, daily and utility powers or change their system around so much it was almost unrecognizable. I could compare AD&D 1st, 2nd, and 3rd/3.5 editions and come to the conclusion that they were all children of the same parent. Certainly there were evolutions, changes some positive some negative but the parentage was still rather strongly intact.
Then along comes 4th edition. Let me say this... I may have accepted it just fine IF it were another game, I may have even kept my books and played it some... but it wasn't another game. Wizards took this game that they made and slapped the D&D label on it ignoring the parentage of the game entirely. People down through the years have played D&D because they liked D&D and while they have complained about its problems here and there essentially no one wanted an entirely new game they just wanted D&D fixed (whatever that meant). 4e gives a couple of nods to previous editions of D&D; it still has the same six ability scores (but Palladium comes pretty close to pulling this off as well with a few additions if I recall correctly), they still have AC, they still have something they call a saving throw, though it doesn't really resemble saving throws of the past much. I remember having somewhat powerful magic items in D&D, magic items that could affect you all the time, but most of them in 4e give you a daily power or something like that maybe along with some kind of a bonus or something, healing potions LET you use a healing surge and get a little boost to what would normally be healed, and if you run out of healing surges... well I guess healing potions somehow loose their power. Compare a 4e ring of Wizardry to one from a previous edition sometime.
4e just falls further and further away from all previous editions of D&D the more you look into it. Oh yeah they did keep swords around. It might be a decent game if it had another name. The horrid thing is that they chose to call it D&D. Even if they had given it the D&D label along with a subtitle like Dungeons and Dragons: Fantasy Battle Game and then still produced real D&D that would have been ok. The real sin is trying to pass it off as D&D which if it is compared to ALL previous editions (even Basic) of D&D it most decidedly is not. Let me put it this way. If another company had produced a game with 4e game system and mechanics, had changed the names of the monsters, powers and magic items so they didn't have D&D names. I don't think the company that produced that game would have even come close to being accused of stealing intellectual property from ANY previous version of D&D. That is why I can say that 4e is not in any way shape or form D&D. It is a game and it may do ok but it is not D&D. Oh yeah and did I mention they still have swords... um... and daggers.
Try the WotC boardsNever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hey!
What are you, a politician?
You mis-quoted me in such a way that you made me look like I was a supporter of theirs!
I'm not good enough at lying or drawing profit from other people's misery, nor am I greedy or impertinent enough. I might, if I put myself to it, make it to Bild reporter (though even then I'd probably have to undergo a brainwash to get rid of any compassion I might still have). ;-P
I didn't want to imply that they're great, it's just that I don't want to go there - though I must say that I'm quite surprised that they're not deleting posts left and banning people right for talking ill of their products.
Just because I am a mere 12 posts short of the 8000 mark over there, I can promise you that 99% of them have been negative since the Gencon '07 announcment.
I also had not a few posts - I just wanted to go and look how many posts I have collected, but the boards are down to some "emergency maintenance to repair some "corruptions" (probably deleting everything that doesn't sound good for them), but I left there, I think even before the 4e announcements, after being called a punk for not licking their boots (I did complain that they left my continent out in the rain when it comes to support like game store kits, so I'd had to resort to eBay or other places with ludicrous prices if I wanted to get minis with alternate paintjobs).
In fact, I've even received PMs from disgruntled employees I've mocked, and even two warnings in one day. The ice I skate on is quite thin over there, I assure you.
Actually, that almost makes me want to try that, too. I already got "punk", and would be interested what else I'd get.
I think Razz is really pissed off at 4e and wizards (at times, I wasn't far from that myself)
At times? Dude, who are you kidding? You seem as angry as I am
Not really angry. At least not all the time. When some new juicy morsel appears, like the GSL and its implications, the anger will flare up for a time, but at the rest, it's more pure disbelief I'd say.
and I'm a seething Blackhole of hatered for 4E.
Hatred, yes, I can see that. Though, of course, there's always the distinction between anger and hate. Anyway, I guess Alaznist would be quick to shove a tome with a name like "Blowing things up 101" in my hands if she ever met me.
But I do think that my enthusiasm for all things Pathfinder far overshadow whatever I think of wizards and their new game they seem to mistakenly have labeled "Dungeons and Dragons".
Come to the Dakside, we have cookies.The darkside does not have cookies. No cookies. None.
The Darkside does have cookies. Girl Scout cookies. Made with real Girl Scouts.