hrm, Universal School's Wish as (sp) along with Luck domain's Miracle as (sp) might be a bit problematic indeed.
I dont see much problem with stoneskin, although it is a expensive component, its not too bad by that level, whereas 25,000 gp is a huge chunk of change regardless of what level you're at. Plus you really dont want to have people throwing Wish/Miracle about on a daily basis.. Although the counterargument can be made that you should already be able to do that through Planar Ally/Binding.
Even so, I dont think many people would argue that the Planar Binding/Ally trick for Wishes is completely fair and balanced, so probably giving these schools something other than these particular spells is a good idea. Although, in general, I have no problem with School/Domain abilities being Spell-likes.
Also, how closely have you read through the Alpha 3? Nothing has an XP cost at this point. I agree, if you can use some of these abilities without any material cost, they will get out of hand, but I'm betting that something is in the pipeline to address this.
Go read the spells.
ALOT of the spells you remember have been substantially altered to go along with the new system..
(Wish, for example).
Go read the spells.
ALOT of the spells you remember have been substantially altered to go along with the new system..
(Wish, for example).
but not Miracle.
Yeah, they definitely should NOT be spell-likes. Even without XP costs, a free 25,000 gp a day is horribly, horribly overpowered. Give the Wizard a month of down time and he can add +5 to all his attributes for free. Two months, and he can give it to a buddy as well.
Yeah, they definitely should NOT be spell-likes. Even without XP costs, a free 25,000 gp a day is horribly, horribly overpowered. Give the Wizard a month of down time and he can add +5 to all his attributes for free. Two months, and he can give it to a buddy as well.
Actually, with the rewritten wish, he can't give himself +5 to everything, or anybody else.
"-Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score by reducing another ability score."
Which was the subject of it's own thread. A lot of people didn't like that change to wish.
Honestly, the removal of XP penalties may be the way Pathfinder is going. Remember, this isn't D&D any more. This is a good deal more of a power game. If it's too over the top, I suggest simply using the version of the spell you prefer, and implimenting whatever costs you prefer. Remember Rule Zero.
Yeah, they definitely should NOT be spell-likes. Even without XP costs, a free 25,000 gp a day is horribly, horribly overpowered. Give the Wizard a month of down time and he can add +5 to all his attributes for free. Two months, and he can give it to a buddy as well.
Remember that a +5 to an attribute requires 5 wishes cast "in immediate succession" and the Wish SLA is usable only 1/day.
Frankly, I think (a) most of the uses of Wish are not worth 25K gp in the first place, and (b) if you take 18 levels of wizard (with no prestige classes) you're entitled to a fairly powerful ability.
I also don't have a problem with Stoneskin 3/day, for what it's worth.
Actually, with the rewritten wish, he can't give himself +5 to everything, or anybody else.
"-Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score by reducing another ability score."
Which was the subject of it's own thread. A lot of people didn't like that change to wish.
That's... incredibly stupid. And why should they have to be cast in immediate succession?
Honestly, the removal of XP penalties may be the way Pathfinder is going. Remember, this isn't D&D any more. This is a good deal more of a power game. If it's too over the top, I suggest simply using the version of the spell you prefer, and implimenting whatever costs you prefer. Remember Rule Zero.
Yeah, or maybe, since this is the alpha test, we can try to make the spell good out of the box.
And why should they have to be cast in immediate succession?
Beats me, but that's the way it's always been in 3.5 as well.
That's... incredibly stupid. And why should they have to be cast in immediate succession?
So it's more difficult and more expensive to pull off. I wish it was even tougher but that's another whole topic.
The only rationale I can think of for the rapid-succession line (and not a terribly good rationale at that) would be to make that +5 very hard to get.
There are actually several ways to get wishes in D&D, the spell itself not withtstanding.
Luckblades, rings of wishes, Efreeti, Solars, various demons, etc. Few have more than 3 at a whack.
The only way to get over the 3 actually is to have more than one blade, ring, or critter on hand. (the rings and blades are capped at 3 wishes each, solars can only do 1 wish a day and i think efreet and the demon (pit fiend? balor?) is similarly limited to one per short time frame)). Or of course, to find one of the tomes.
The only way to get over the 3 actually is to have more than one blade, ring, or critter on hand. (the rings and blades are capped at 3 wishes each, solars can only do 1 wish a day and i think efreet and the demon (pit fiend? balor?) is similarly limited to one per short time frame)). Or of course, to find one of the tomes.
Or to make a bunch of scrolls, if you're a wizard capable of casting Wish already.
I did say it wasn't a terribly good rationale.
Wish scrolls? those would take awhile to make.
-S
What I find is strange is that sorcerer's bloodline adds a spell. They still need to have components and worry about arcane spell failure.
But specialist wizards get spell-like.
Perhaps change the bonus spells of sorcerer's bloodline to spell-like also, but have it count against their daily limit of spells.
They still need to have components and worry about arcane spell failure.Sorcerers don't need to worry about components, check the class again.
Sorcerers need to worry about components that cost more than 1 gp. So Eschew Materials is basically just a free spell component pouch that can't be stolen.
The reason that you have to cast mulitple instances of Wish in rapid succession is that Inherent bonuses (like most others) don't stack. You can't give yourself a +1 Inherent bonus one day and then do it again the next. You have to apply the entire bonus to your attribute at once.
The books that add inherent bonuses work the same way. Five INT+1 books cannot add more than +1 to your INT. You need a bigger book, and it doesn't stack with the lower ones you may have used already.
Since there is no +5 Wish, you need to cast them all at once with no interruption in order to achieve the same effect. Wish would be totally broken otherwise, even with the GP cost.
-Scott
Wish would be totally broken otherwise, even with the GP cost.
Why? The cost is linear. Five +1s costs the same as one +5.
Since there is no +5 Wish, you need to cast them all at once with no interruption in order to achieve the same effect. Wish would be totally broken otherwise, even with the GP cost.
So, just for the record:
- Getting +5 Int by casting 5 Wish spells on different days for a cost of 125,000 gp = broken
- Getting +5 Int by making 5 scrolls of Wish and casting them on the same day for a cost of 134,562.5 gp = not broken
Actually:
Getting +5 int from 5 wishes on 5 different days for FREE = broken.
Which is exactly what every 'universal' wizard would have 5 days after 18th level if the spells didn't have to be cast in rapid succession.
Actually:
Getting +5 int from 5 wishes on 5 different days for FREE = broken.
Maybe, but that's not what the poster said. He said even with the GP cost it would be broken.