Archade
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Hey there,
I've put together an index of shapes and bonuses granted by Beast Shape I, and it's led me to ask some questions ...
* Beast shape spells should specifically say swarms are disallowed …
* At no point does beast shape I-IV grant any animal the ability to rage (dire badger, badger), attach (dire weasel), blood drain (dire weasel), hold breath (crocodile, porpoise), ink cloud (octopus, squid), keen scent (shark), spring (cheetah) – oversight?
* If someone turns into an aquatic animal, shouldn’t they be able to breathe underwater? The spell doesn’t specifically say
* Shouldn’t beast shape grant a racial skill bonus? A dire rat gets a +8 racial bonus to swim and baboons get a +8 racial bonus to climb – and flying forms get a bonus based on maneuverability – isn’t that a fair bonus to grant to casters, or does it unnecessarily complicate the spell?
Beast Shape I
Baboon (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, climb 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Badger (small animal): base speed 30 ft, +1 natural armor, +1 atk if medium caster, 2 claws 1d2, bite 1d3, +2 Dex, low-light vision, scent
Black Bear (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, 2 claws 1d4, bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Boar (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, gore 1d8, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Cheetah (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, 2 claws 1d2, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Crocodile (medium animal): base speed 20 ft, swim 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d8 or tail slap 1d12, +2 Str, low-light vision
Dire Badger (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, 2 claws 1d4, bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Dire Rat (small animal): base speed 30 ft, climb 20 ft, +1 natural armor, +1 atk if medium caster, bite 1d4,+2 Dex, low-light vision, scent
Dire Weasel (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Dog (small animal): base speed 30 ft, +1 natural armor, +1 atk if medium caster, bite 1d4, +2 Dex, low-light vision, scent
Dog, Riding (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Donkey (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d2, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Eagle (small animal): base speed 10 ft, fly 30 ft (average maneuverability), +1 natural armor, +1 atk if medium caster, 2 talons 1d4, bite 1d4, +2 Dex, low-light vision
Hyena (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Leopard (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, climb 20 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, 2 claws 1d3, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Lizard, Monitor (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, swim 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d8, +2 Str, low-light vision
Octopus (small animal): base speed 20 ft, swim 30 ft, +1 natural armor, arms 0, bite 1d3, low-light vision
Pony (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, 2 hooves 1d3, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Pony, War (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, 2 hooves 1d3, +2 Str, low-light vision, scent
Porpoise (medium animal): base speed 0 ft, swim 30 ft, +2 natural armor, slam 2d4, +2 Str, low-light vision
Shark, Medium (medium animal): base speed 0 ft, swim 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, +2 Str
Snake, Constrictor (medium animal): base speed 20 ft, climb 20 ft, swim 20 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d3, +2 Str, scent
Snake, Small Viper (small animal): base speed 20 ft, climb 20 ft, swim 20 ft, +1 natural armor, bite 1d2, +2 Dex, scent
Snake, Medium Viper (medium animal): base speed 20 ft, climb 20 ft, swim 20 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d4, +2 Str, scent
Squid (medium animal): base speed 0 ft, swim 30 ft, +2 natural armor, arms (0), bite 1d6, +2 Str, low-light vision
Wolf (medium animal): base speed 30 ft, +2 natural armor, bite 1d6, low-light vision, scent
| Dennis da Ogre formerly 0gre |
First, nice table, I've been thinking about doing something like this. I'll have to bookmark this thread.
* Beast shape spells should specifically say swarms are disallowed …
First, the wording in the spell:
When you cast this spell you can assume the form of
any Small or Medium creature of the animal type.
Note the word creature is singular. I suppose you can say that a 'swarm' is a singular thing but it is not a single creature. Read the wording of the swarm template "Swarms are dense masses of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny [/b]creatures[/b]...". I know in D&D sometimes the word creature is used to describe whatever you happen to be poking with your sword but in this case it's pretty clear.
* At no point does beast shape I-IV grant any animal the ability to rage (dire badger, badger), attach (dire weasel), blood drain (dire weasel), hold breath (crocodile, porpoise), ink cloud (octopus, squid), keen scent (shark), spring (cheetah) – oversight?
* If someone turns into an aquatic animal, shouldn’t they be able to breathe underwater? The spell doesn’t specifically say
Much of this is answered in the Polymorph section which is confusingly before the Domains and Arcane Schools on page 80.
"If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing." So the while it doesn't expressly say that you gain hold breath I think it's pretty clear that you can breath as the creature of that type can. You could actually interpret this rule to imply that you gain the breath water ability while in any form that has a swim ability.
The text on page 80 does not much of the rest of the things you brought up, nor does it touch on racial skill bonuses. The implication is that they are not granted.
| hogarth |
* Shouldn’t beast shape grant a racial skill bonus? A dire rat gets a +8 racial bonus to swim and baboons get a +8 racial bonus to climb – and flying forms get a bonus based on maneuverability – isn’t that a fair bonus to grant to casters, or does it unnecessarily complicate the spell?
For your two examples, I believe that every creature with a swim or climb speed gets a +8 bonus to the relevant skill since that's what it states under the Climb/Swim speed special ability.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#climb
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#swim
But you wouldn't get other racial bonuses (like a snake's racial bonus on Hide checks, say).
| Patrick Baldwin |
I think that racial skill bonuses should be granted to the caster, because they are more based on form, not culture or nature. After all, a snake has a bonus to hide because of it's shape, being low to the ground, right?
And often, it's coloration and the fact that that shape can fit
a surprisingly large amount of snake into surprisingly smallspaces.
| DarkOne the Drow |
While in another creature form, all physical based skills of the creature should replace the casters skills for the duration of the effect. After all this is not just an illusion, but a full transformation. Considering STR, DEX and CON ability scores are changed to the creature form taken, so why not all skills related to STR, DEX, and CON. Same goes for physical feats, and physical special qualities.