Disarm Question - Clarification Needed

[Freesword]

A question has come up in my group regarding Disarm. What effect if any does a two handed weapon have on a disarm attempt?

In 3.5 there was a +4 bonus for a two handed weapon and -4 penalty for a light weapon on opposed disarm checks.

In Pathfinder, there is no mention of modifiers for two handed or light weapons. Is this because they are unchanged, gone, or was it just an oversight? If they still exist, should they be reduced as other modifiers (except unarmed) have?

Following on that, what is the correct DC to disarm an opponent who is wielding a two handed weapon?
There are 3 possible answers.

1. DC=15+CMB of defender, same as for one handed weapons.

2. DC=15+CMB+weapon modifier, similar to 3.5

3. DC=15+CMB(+weapon modifier?)+10, you need to exceed the DC by 10 or more to disarm both hands as per p77

Clarification of this in needed and would be much appreciated. I'm surprised this hasn't been more of an issue as I've checked the boards all the way back to Alpha1 (and the alpha rules themselves). There was only one thread about specific weapons with bonuses to combat maneuvers and the got little response other than equipment will be added in the Beta.

[hogarth]

My understanding is that there is no longer any weapon bonus or penalty for Disarm or Sunder, hence that is why you don't see it mentioned. I could be wrong, of course.

[JoelF847]

I would say that there's no longer a 2handed or light weapon bonus or penalty, but specific weapons still grant bonuses, such as the ranseur, since those bonuses are part of the weapon description (at least in alpha it still is, we'll have to see in beta what changes occur there), while the 2handed bonus or pentalty was part of the disarm rules, and that part isn't there anymore.

[Robert Brambley]

hogarth wrote:

My understanding is that there is no longer any weapon bonus or penalty for Disarm or Sunder, hence that is why you don't see it mentioned. I could be wrong, of course.

I have asked this question on two different occasions (along with a few other specific CMB manuever related questions as to how they differ from 3.5 versions) and have not gotten any official responses.

I was left to assume that Hogarth is right - though the +10 DC to disarm two hands does seem to cause a pause to jump to conclusions.

Regardless, if there is no difference between them, it seems pretty stupid to think a dagger has just as good a chance to sunder or disarm a great sword, as a greataxe would. I know that using physics and logic is not always the best thing for game-play and balance - but some aspects are just too hard to ignore and still suspend disbelief.

I'm thinking that +2/-2 adjustment needs to be put into the mix to be commensurate with the Improved Feats change from 4 to 2.

Robert

[hogarth]

Robert Brambley wrote:

I was left to assume that Hogarth is right - though the +10 DC to disarm two hands does seem to cause a pause to jump to conclusions.

Good point. I guess the DC to disarm something held in two hands is increased by 10.

[Robert Brambley]

hogarth wrote:

Robert Brambley wrote:

I was left to assume that Hogarth is right - though the +10 DC to disarm two hands does seem to cause a pause to jump to conclusions.

Good point. I guess the DC to disarm something held in two hands is increased by 10.

Well, I wasnt 100% convinced it meant disarming a two-handed weapon was +10 DC, or if the person has two weapons, you can disarm one - and the second one is disarmed if you beat the DC by 10. As written i can see it meaning one or the other - or both. Regardless, it has been asked to be clarified and hasn't yet. We've tried playing two-handed weapons both ways (with the DC+10 and without); without is ridiculous that a dagger could disarm a greataxe, and with, the DC becomes astronomically too hard.

For my $.02; I say increase the DC by 4 for a two-handed weapon. Increase the attempts to disarm and/or sunder with a two-handed weapon with a +2. Leave the +10 DC to being able to disarm something held in each hand.

Robert