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My two cents for any changes I would like to see would be to alter the ability to use Magic Wands. I mean the text reads that one must know the command word to utilize a wand. Then on top of that they must be a caster or be using the Use Magic Item Skill. Personally I don't go for this, in my own campaigns I have a house rule of you must know the command word or phrase to utilize the wand. I find this helps in numerous ways, I can now run a party of non-clerics and let them utilize healing wands which way less and bring more uses than potions.
Of course if this isn't a change anyone else would like to see that's fine, I will still continue to use it in my own run campaigns.
Side Note: When a PC in my game says he is using a Wand I do make him say the Command Word or Phrase...i'm big into the RP and not into the Hack N Slash and in so have some fun sometimes with wands....i.e. Wand of Lighting Bolds (Command Word: ZZZZZZZZZZZZAP!)
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Allowing to use wands without use magic device would somehow devalue use magic device as a skill, also, out of 11 core classes, 7 are able to use a wand of cure light wounds (5 because it appears on their spell lists, 2 because of use magic device as a class skill). Even in a party of wizards, fighters, barbarians and monks could easily pick up use magic device as the new rules on cross class skills are much gentler than the old ones. Which character would buy a potion of cure light wounds for 50 gp, when he could get a wand of clw for 750 gp? It might be a bit more expensive to purchase, but it has a lot more uses.
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Allowing to use wands without use magic device would somehow devalue use magic device as a skill, also, out of 11 core classes, 7 are able to use a wand of cure light wounds (5 because it appears on their spell lists, 2 because of use magic device as a class skill). Even in a party of wizards, fighters, barbarians and monks could easily pick up use magic device as the new rules on cross class skills are much gentler than the old ones. Which character would buy a potion of cure light wounds for 50 gp, when he could get a wand of clw for 750 gp? It might be a bit more expensive to purchase, but it has a lot more uses.
I don't see how it would devalue the skill. It hasn't yet in my own campaigns. The skill still has many other uses, activating a ring, reading a scroll, using a staff etc. The Wand was the only item I noticed that requires an Activation Word/Phrase and Being able to cast said spell.
Now I see you are talking about so many other's can use said spell. Ok I see that...what about at low level when the PC Class doesn't even gain spells yet? Do you give them the benefit of casting when in fact their level prevents them from casting?
The fact that it has more uses is the prime reason I have created the house rule. And the sad thing is in most of my campaigns characters never seem to go and purchase one.
Now with this house rule I have and the many different wands out there, when a PC purchases a wand and learns the command word/phrase or has it identified does NOT mean he knows what the spell exactly does or how it works, unless of course he does the research or is already a caster and know's the spell...or Spellcraft Check.
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I don't see how it would devalue the skill. It hasn't yet in my own campaigns. The skill still has many other uses, activating a ring, reading a scroll, using a staff etc. The Wand was the only item I noticed that requires an Activation Word/Phrase and Being able to cast said spell.Now I see you are talking about so many other's can use said spell. Ok I see that...what about at low level when the PC Class doesn't even gain spells yet? Do you give them the benefit of casting when in fact their level prevents them from casting?
The fact that it has more uses is the prime reason I have created the house rule. And the sad thing is in most of my campaigns characters never seem to go and purchase one.
Now with this house rule I have and the many different wands out there, when a PC purchases a wand and learns the command word/phrase or has it identified does NOT mean he knows what the spell exactly does or how it works, unless of course he does the research or is already a caster and know's the spell...or Spellcraft Check.
Bards, clerics and druids can cast cure light wounds on first level. Paladins gain access to the spell on level 4 (if his charisma is at least 12), rangers on level 7 (if their wisdom is 12 or higher). As in Alpha 3, a character must at least be level 4 to own the wand of a first level spell. That leaves only rangers and very uncharismatic paladins (as well as multiclassed paladins).
The DC to use a wand is 20. A level 4 character with use magic device as a class skill should have 7 ranks plus his charisma modifier as a bonus on skill checks, so rogues and sorcerers of that level have a fairly good chance of using a wand.So, most characters are rather prevented to use a wand by their inability to purchase a wand than by their inability to cast spells.
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Bards, clerics and druids can cast cure light wounds on first level. Paladins gain access to the spell on level 4 (if his charisma is at least 12), rangers on level 7 (if their wisdom is 12 or higher). As in Alpha 3, a character must at least be level 4 to own the wand of a first level spell. That leaves only rangers and very uncharismatic paladins (as well as multiclassed paladins).
The DC to use a wand is 20. A level 4 character with use magic device as a class skill should have 7 ranks plus his charisma modifier as a bonus on skill checks, so rogues and sorcerers of that level have a fairly good chance of using a wand.
So, most characters are rather prevented to use a wand by their inability to purchase a wand than by their inability to cast spells.
That is if the Bard chooses the spell to be known. Then you are only left with Cleric's and Druid's. Again the main push on this rule is the lack of players willing to play a Cleric or Druid. They are just too afraid to play the spell casters. Or don't feel they are ready yet. Also even while having a Cleric or Druid in the party this rule allowed them to not spend all the energies in healing.
Now I understand the new channel energy in P3, in fact in my current RoTRL campaign I have a PC Cleric, and alone with the encounters in Burnt Offerings the party has already burned through an entire Wand of Cure Light Wounds and left the Cleric with minimal to no spells remaining, which matters when the Cleric get's interrupted sleep and does not regain any spells.
For your example of a Level 4 Character should have 7 Ranks in Use Magic Device...are you using a class that has it as a class skill? Also under the new Pathfinder RPG rules at level 4 the most ranks you could have is 4. No more than HD. Granted if it is a class skill you gain an additional +3 to the check, perhaps that is where you are getting your 7.
Normally I don't let a 1st lvl character purchase a Wand of Cure Light Wounds or one period. However if the party that is created and no one makes a "healer" I then might throw one in, or simple put one on "loan" from the employer which then is taken out of any treasure gained (and turned in to the employer).
And to be honest most gamers when they create a higher level character say 5th-8th right off the bat don't think of those low cost items, instead they think of the bigger items. At least in my experiences as a DM.
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That is if the Bard chooses the spell to be known. Then you are only left with Cleric's and Druid's. Again the main push on this rule is the lack of players willing to play a Cleric or Druid. They are just too afraid to play the spell casters. Or don't feel they are ready yet. Also even while having a Cleric or Druid in the party this rule allowed them to not spend all the energies in healing.Now I understand the new channel energy in P3, in fact in my current RoTRL campaign I have a PC Cleric, and alone with the encounters in Burnt Offerings the party has already burned through an entire Wand of Cure Light Wounds and left the Cleric with minimal to no spells remaining, which matters when the Cleric get's interrupted sleep and does not regain any spells.
For your example of a Level 4 Character should have 7 Ranks in Use Magic Device...are you using a class that has it as a class skill? Also under the new Pathfinder RPG rules at level 4 the most ranks you could have is 4. No more than HD. Granted if it is a class skill you gain an additional +3 to the check, perhaps that is where you are getting your 7.
Normally I don't let a 1st lvl character purchase a Wand of Cure Light Wounds or one period. However if the the party that is created and no one makes a "healer" I then might throw one in, or simple put one on "loan" from the employer which then is taken out of any treasure gained (and turned in to the employer).
And to be honest most gamers when they create a higher level character say 5th-8th right off the bat don't think of those low cost items, instead they think of the bigger items. At least in my experiences as a DM.
The bard does not need to have learned the spell, cure light wound being on his spell list is sufficient. All in all your main problem with wands seems to be that characters that aren't supposed to have them have in many cases insufficient abilities to use them. Many people won't view that as a problem. And of cource I was reffering to classes with use magic device as a class skill. I even said so. Other classes can get the same effect by taking skill focus (use magic device) as a feat. More than half of classes are fully capable of using a wand of cure light wounds when they reach level 5, so I kind of fail to see the problem there.
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So then in a party not using the house rule I have would pretty much be SOL if there was no Druid, Cleric or Bard and especially if the Rogue in the party didn't spend points into Use Magic Device?
Perhaps my view point comes from playing with a unexperienced group, but I first picked up this rule from my Father's campaigns back in 1st AD&D days.
But it seems i'm the only one out here who had an issue with this use, so thanks for the thoughts but i'm thinking this will be a simple house rule on my end.
Cheers!
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So then in a party not using the house rule I have would pretty much be SOL if there was no Druid, Cleric or Bard and especially if the Rogue in the party didn't spend points into Use Magic Device?
Perhaps my view point comes from playing with a unexperienced group, but I first picked up this rule from my Father's campaigns back in 1st AD&D days.
But it seems i'm the only one out here who had an issue with this use, so thanks for the thoughts but i'm thinking this will be a simple house rule on my end.
Cheers!
Your main problem seems to be the lack of healing abilities a group without a cleric has. The Magic Item Compendium might be helpful to you, as it has items as the healing belt and also some items that mimic lesser restoration. In my campaign, the players made lots of use of this items (okay, the ranger had also fast healing) and it reduced the need of a cleric.
So then in a party not using the house rule I have would pretty much be SOL if there was no Druid, Cleric or Bard and especially if the Rogue in the party didn't spend points into Use Magic Device?
Perhaps my view point comes from playing with a unexperienced group, but I first picked up this rule from my Father's campaigns back in 1st AD&D days.
But it seems i'm the only one out here who had an issue with this use, so thanks for the thoughts but i'm thinking this will be a simple house rule on my end.
Cheers!
I think its a perfectly acceptable house-rule. Even neccessary for that particular group.
I played in a group once that had a Human Fighter, a Tiefling Rogue, and a Deep Gnome Warlock. The rogue and warlock had excellent UMD skills, so we just purchased a lot of healing wands. The fighter got himself a weapon of legacy with healing special ability. We did just fine without a cleric.
Scrolls and wands are much better than potions for the money to hit points ration. You just need to be able to use 'em.
An alternative house-rule could be to make Use Magic Device usable untrained and/or a class skill for all classes. You would still need to invest ranks in it to make it feasible.
-Jack