Skill Focus vs. a new feat to make non-class skills into class skills


New Rules Suggestions

Sovereign Court

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A lot of folks have talked about creating a new feat that makes a non-class skill into a class skill. I agree. But I don't think we've seen the ideas formalized into a concrete proposal yet. I'm not great at final wording, but here are my thoughts...

If the new Additional Class Skill feat did nothing more than make a non-class skill a class skill, it would also grant +3 because, as a class skill, it would now be eligible for the class-skill bonus. I'm fine with that and think it's fair; it makes it something I'd be willing to burn a feat on.

The problem is, Skill Focus currently gives +3 to a skill as well. It is weaker because it only gives +3 while the other feat would give +3 and make a skill a class skill. Maybe that's okay because, either the skill you use Skill Focus on is already a class skill and you've already gotten the first +3 bump, or you'd be foolish use Skill Focus on a non-class skill when you could use Additional Class Skill to get the +3 and make it a class skill from now on.

Hmmm... actually, would you be foolish? Does having a skill as a class skill do anything besides grant +3? If not, then there is no actually benefit to using Additional Class Skill over Skill Focus. In which case, the new feat would be redundant and a bad idea. So with the current Pathfinder rules as is, there is probably no need for a new make-it-a-class-skill feat.

[Note: I was originally going to suggest bumping Skill Focus to +4, but that would make the new feat even less desirable given that there seems to be no additional benefit (beyond the +3) to having a skill as a class skill. And there is a certain elegance to having Skill Focus grant the same bonus as a class skill because it basically allows you to make something work like a class skill, and if it already is, it makes it like a double class skill for you.]

Maybe this brings up another possibility, though. Should there be any other differences between class and non-class skills, or is the simple +3 enough?


No offense intended but this strikes me as something that is unnecessary and potentially confusing.

The existing system is fairly elegant in that a cross-class skill plus skill focus is equal to a class skill. You can push a cross-class skill ahead of a class skill by also taking the relavent +2/+2 feat. But to be the best possible at the skill it must be a maxed class skill with both feats. I like how this works and would not welcome a feat that blurs this elegance.

Additionally I can see this being confusing if a player took the feat to make the skill a class skill, but then multi-classed so that it became a class skill anyway. He may feel he's entitled to an additional +3 bonus and not understand why he's not getting it.


I'd be all for this skill. If nothing else, it helps a character meet PrC requirements sooner, which is good for some.

If a player is confused as to why a feat suddenly becomes redundant, then he's dumb. He should either have multiclassed from the start or just not multiclassed at all.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Disciple of Sakura wrote:
If nothing else, it helps a character meet PrC requirements sooner, which is good for some.

I hadn't thought of that. I generally avoid PrCs. So some PrCs make having certain skills as class skills a prerequisite? If that is the case, then there is a reason to create an Additional Class Skill feat, or make that an additional affect of Skill Focus.

My opinion evolved as I write the OP; by the end I was pretty much against the new feat because I couldn't see any benefit to making a skill a class skill, other than the +3. But if there are other benefits ...

Liberty's Edge

The fact that skill focus compensates is a good one.

Another point worth making is that multiclass penalties have been removed for EVERY class. This will encourage people dipping into classes for some character flavor, here and there, or building a rather unique character. An added benefit - class skills come with it. And so, even if you don't bother to multiclass until some time in the distance future, you'll still reap the benefits retroactively of it becoming a class skill.


The Prestige Class issue actually makes me like the feat idea even less since skill rank prerequisites are often used as a means of forcing multi-classing to gain access to a powerful prestige class.

In particular skill prerequisites can force full casters to take non-caster levels to gain significant powers in a full caster PRC (or to wait to appropriatetely high levels via cross-class ranks). This feat would mean that they don't have to give up any spell ability at all to gain those PRC powers.


This is how I see the new feats. I am a little bit in favor of the new feat, but the thing about PrC make me think about the consequences...

Skill Proficiency [General]

Choose a skill.

Benefit
This skill becomes a class skill (giving all benefits).

Special
You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill.

Skill Focus [General]

Choose a skill.

Prerequisite
The skill must be a class skill.

Benefit
You get a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill.

Special
You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill.

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