I agree that the 3.5 version of darkness is wonky and needs some work. However, the Pathfinder version essentially does nothing. I will explain, and then I will offer the alternative that I use. First, let's restate the spell description, from page 101:
Pathfinder Alpha 3, p.101 wrote:
This spell causes an object to radiate darkness out to a 20-foot radius. Creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded in this area. Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells brought inside the area of darkness can brighten the area, allowing a creature to see normally in the light’s radius.
If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Our first case will be the best-case-scenario (from the point of view of the spell). A battle is being fought in a brightly lit room when someone casts darkness. Although not explicit in the spell, it could be inferred that this should cause the light sources (torches, say) to no longer shed light. After all, there is the phrase "brought inside the area" which implies that those already in the area don't work. Okay, so now it is dark. A wizard casts light and it is bright again. Evil cleric down a 2nd-level spell, wizard down a cantrip.
Second case: Same battle being fought outside at high noon. Evil cleric casts darkness. Does this cause the sun to stop shedding light? We probably all agree that it doesn't. Most would say that this spell would cause the area of magical darkness to block out the sun. Okay, but big deal. Wizard casts light again. Now the cantrip is more powerful than the sun (which is a god in some campaigns).
Of course, if there were no light sources to begin with, then the spell does nothing. For instance, what does an area of permanent darkness look like? Just like any other area: it is dark until you bring light into it.
My proposed alteration depends on the three levels of illumination we have in the game: bright light, shadowy illumination, and darkness.
[i wrote: Darkness[/i]]
This spell causes an object to radiate darkness out to a 20-foot radius. Creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded in this area. Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) and light spells (edit: delete "brought") inside the area of darkness can brighten the area; however, the level of illumination is worsened by one step (bright light becomes shadowy illumination, and shadowy illumination becomes darkness).
If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
With this change on the board, I would leave deeper darkness as is, except possibly considering natural sunlight to be magical light (thus deeper darkness cast outside at high noon would cause a 60-foot radius of shadowy illumination). My argument for this is that natural sunlight is more powerful than the daylight spell, as evidenced by its effect on vampires (and that, in some campaigns, it originates directly from a god).
Perhaps other changes could be added to further improve on these suggestions.
Light (the 0 level cantrip) will never counter a darkness spell.
Pathfinder Alpha 3 Page 110 wrote: Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level. Overall it's a big improvement on the 3.5 darkness which really was only shadows.
I like that it actually creates darkness now, but I do think that this version introduces some problematic situations. Not only is it easily countered, but also, some iconic creatures with the darkness ability now don't have a really good reason to have darkness as an ability.
Drow live in the Dark Lands, and while they make life hell for surface dwellers once in a great while, most of their enemies are other drow, dwarves, and various and sundry aberrations that live underground . . . all creatures that would be immune to darkness due to the fact that they have darkvision.
Demons fall under this category as well, as they may fight mortals once in a while, but most of the time, they will be fighting devils and angels, who, being outsiders, also have darkvision and thus are not affected by this spell.
Personally, I kind of hoped that the spell could keep working as described (i.e. creating actual darkness, but that can only be dispelled by an equal or more powerful light spell, not with normal torches or lanterns), but with creatures that have darkvision affected as per the old darkness spell, i.e. creatures with darkvision still have a 20% concealment penalty due to it being difficult, but not impossible, to see through the darkness.
If it worked this way, it makes sense for drow and demons to have developed this ability in regards to their normal foes.
I know this still creates the problem of other creatures allied to the caster being hit with the concealment penalty, and you could either deal with this the way that Drow of the Underdark does, creating a feat that allows beings with natural darkness casting ability to see in magical darkness with no penalty, or you can say that within the area of the spell, only the caster of the spell gains the 20% concealment against creatures with darkvision, while in the area of the spell, and otherwise darkvision counters the spell.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
While Light and Dancing Lights aren't counterspells to level 2 Darkness, I don't like that they can create a light source inside Darkness.
Light is a level 0 spell which means unlimited casting. It creates light up to 20' just like Darkness. Yet Light will counter-act the effects of a Darkness spell, it won't end the effect, but it will allow you to move through Darkness and get out of it safely and then the Darkness resumes.
Dancing Light falls funnily into the same situation but creates 4 balls of torchlight, which is also 20ft of light EACH. And is actually a better option since no one has to carry the light source or drop an item that has Light on it. They just follow you around. :P
Raqel wrote: Light (the 0 level cantrip) will never counter a darkness spell.
Pathfinder Alpha 3 Page 110 wrote: Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level. Overall it's a big improvement on the 3.5 darkness which really was only shadows.
I didn't say counter. If you bring a rock with light cast on it inside the area of magical darkness, it is no longer dark there. Just like if you bring a light into a mundane darkness. In fact, a torch works too. So, what exactly is the darkness spell doing? Not much.
My suggestion is to have darkness worsen all illumination by one step. I might even go so far as to suggest a fourth step of illumination: pitch black. In pitch black, even darkvision fails to function. Mundane darkness affected by darkness would become pitch black. This might be a good solution for KnightErrantJr.
I actually agree I think as a revision on a non-working spell, this is a complete failure. At worst it's a move action for someone to get and strike a sunrod wasted, oh no. The fact that darkvision sees through it means that it has absolutely no effect on dwarves, whom if you've been following D&D for years hated the darkness spell and always had a cleric with them when they fought drow to cast light, now they don't do that because all of a sudden it has no effect on them. I gotta say making half of the monsters you face suddenly immune to the spell doesn't work well for backwards compatability.
lastknightleft wrote: I actually agree I think as a revision on a non-working spell, this is a complete failure. At worst it's a move action for someone to get and strike a sunrod wasted, oh no. The fact that darkvision sees through it means that it has absolutely no effect on dwarves, whom if you've been following D&D for years hated the darkness spell and always had a cleric with them when they fought drow to cast light, now they don't do that because all of a sudden it has no effect on them. I gotta say making half of the monsters you face suddenly immune to the spell doesn't work well for backwards compatability. Its worse than that - dwarves now get one of their teeth permanently enchanted with Darkness so they can open their mouths and blind opponents as necessary.
Squirrelloid wrote: lastknightleft wrote: I actually agree I think as a revision on a non-working spell, this is a complete failure. At worst it's a move action for someone to get and strike a sunrod wasted, oh no. The fact that darkvision sees through it means that it has absolutely no effect on dwarves, whom if you've been following D&D for years hated the darkness spell and always had a cleric with them when they fought drow to cast light, now they don't do that because all of a sudden it has no effect on them. I gotta say making half of the monsters you face suddenly immune to the spell doesn't work well for backwards compatability. Its worse than that - dwarves now get one of their teeth permanently enchanted with Darkness so they can open their mouths and blind opponents as necessary. It only blinds the opponent until said opponent casts light (or lights a torch, or strikes a sunrod, or opens a window...)
Drow rogue (to drow cleric): "Boy it sure is bright in here; I thought you were going to cast darkness."
Drow cleric: "I did! And it would be really REALLY dark in here too...if someone would put out that torch...and if the curtains were closed....and if..."
:) Cheers.
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