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One of the very best results of the OGL were the many outstanding settings and rules variations that sprang from it. My favorite such variant (along with AE, IH, GT and GoT) is Iron Kingdoms by Privateer Press. Now even though the rules for IK can be a little "wonky" at times, I really enjoyed the games and how the races, classes, spells and monsters were tweaked in a way that really captured the IK flavor.
My favorite design goal of Pathfinder is the backwards compatibility. So with a new IK campaign on the horizon, I've decided to use the Pathfinder rules for IK. I'm not certain how much effort is needed to create Pathfinder Gun Mages, Arcane Mechanics, Ogrun, Bodgers, Trollkin and of course 'jacks, but I think the results could be very interesting.
So has anyone given Pathfinder and IK a try?
One of the very best results of the OGL were the many outstanding settings and rules variations that sprang from it. My favorite such variant (along with AE, IH, GT and GoT) is Iron Kingdoms by Privateer Press. Now even though the rules for IK can be a little "wonky" at times, I really enjoyed the games and how the races, classes, spells and monsters were tweaked in a way that really captured the IK flavor.
My favorite design goal of Pathfinder is the backwards compatibility. So with a new IK campaign on the horizon, I've decided to use the Pathfinder rules for IK. I'm not certain how much effort is needed to create Pathfinder Gun Mages, Arcane Mechanics, Ogrun, Bodgers, Trollkin and of course 'jacks, but I think the results could be very interesting.
So has anyone given Pathfinder and IK a try?
Haven't mixed the two as of yet. But what news of new IK, did they go 4th, there own system, or do the OGL thing? If they haven't gone 4th, I think we can almost say that no 3.X system created has gone 4th.
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Privateer Press has made no public decision regarding the future system for IK as of yet, nor do I personally think that they will anytime soon.
The IK fans have been very vocal about their opinions, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The 3 main camps appear to be 1- leave it as is, 2- switch to 4E or 3- make a new system all their own, possibly based on the Warmachine / Horde mechanics. Time will tell.
I just think that a number of the Pathfinder rule changes would work with IK. I'm particularly excited about what changes to make for the IK specific core classes to bring them more in line with Pathfinder's model.
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Privateer Press has made no public decision regarding the future system for IK as of yet, nor do I personally think that they will anytime soon.
I'm very, very disappointed with Privateers support of their RPG line. There hasn't been anything since MN 2 and Five Fingers (both awesome books). If PP hadn't been on the list of interested publishers for 4E, I'd expected them to abandon their RPG line.
To get back on topic: I think it will be a lot of work, but most PF-stuff will fit nicely into the IK. You'd have to rework the classes and races for sure, but what else? Hmm... Some of the bloodlines won't work in the IK. There have to be new ones, though. Many of the domain powers won't work as well. I don't have my IK books with me, but there might be some other stuff that won't be compatible with PF or vice versa.
Privateer Press has made no public decision regarding the future system for IK as of yet, nor do I personally think that they will anytime soon.
The IK fans have been very vocal about their opinions, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The 3 main camps appear to be 1- leave it as is, 2- switch to 4E or 3- make a new system all their own, possibly based on the Warmachine / Horde mechanics. Time will tell.
I just think that a number of the Pathfinder rule changes would work with IK. I'm particularly excited about what changes to make for the IK specific core classes to bring them more in line with Pathfinder's model.
Well heres hoping they leave as is or go 3.P, but they are big enough that there own system might have merit.
As to the classes best to start with what the basic books say in the first place. Cleric has to be gone. Drop ranger spells (though the Pathfinder ranger almost dosen't need them.) I would give spellcasters something long the lines of Bloodline feets for Sorc. While the Sorcere would have to Drop Dragon and perhaps Arcane Bloodlines.
Privateer Press has made no public decision regarding the future system for IK as of yet, nor do I personally think that they will anytime soon.
I'm very, very disappointed with Privateers support of their RPG line. There hasn't been anything since MN 2 and Five Fingers (both awesome books). If PP hadn't been on the list of interested publishers for 4E, I'd expected them to abandon their RPG line.
To get back on topic: I think it will be a lot of work, but most PF-stuff will fit nicely into the IK. You'd have to rework the classes and races for sure, but what else? Hmm... Some of the bloodlines won't work in the IK. There have to be new ones, though. Many of the domain powers won't work as well. I don't have my IK books with me, but there might be some other stuff that won't be compatible with PF or vice versa.
I think Privateer has the problem of not being an RPG company. Iron Kingdoms might (and I don't know so please don't burn me if I'm wrong) have been a fun experiment that came along at the time when 3PP were supporting the own in-house systems. IK needed the players handbook. But the experiment came to its own and was widly accepted. Thus while they have the money to give it a lot of attention, the company is geared for minatures. If Taurren is correct about the options the fan and company is considering they might be thinking could an independent rules system make an impact on the markent. They have effectivly become #2 if not #1 minatures wargaming game out there, taking onw GW, do they want to try the same with RPG?
To topic however, I don't see it as a lot of work in terms of Pathfinder, no clerics, get rid of Ranger spells, and arcane options for Rogue, blanket statments like that. The work is to make IK classes updated (power creep has never been an issue for men, old paladium player you know) but it is an reoccuring issue on these boards.
First I think we should make a list of skills, from 3.5, 3.P and IK that should and must be in the game. From that point we can start mod. classes as need. I did this with WOWrpg to Alpha 1 pathfinder. Although didn't like the skill system of Pathfidner it helped to up date the Tinker to feel more Pathfinder like. To the point that some of my group actually suggested giving the Tinker some special ablities based on what he is expert at, which iroicaly now looks very simular to Sor. bloodlines (fluff excluded).
I've slowly started to incoporate a fair bit of the technology magic into 3P with a bit of a twist to support the native 3P setting. If I can find my flash drive I'll even post some of it.
Specifically I wouldn't mind posting my variant on Trollkin that I built long ago for a campaign I played in called Joturn. In fact they'd probably work really well in the northern lands here with the Linnorn Kings if I undertand the feel that's going on there.
Well I'm actually currently running the Witchfire Trilogy with the new Pathfinder rules.
For the races all I've done is given them the Racial Hit Points, Iosian Elves and Gobbers getting +4, Humans and Nyss Elves getting +6, Dwarves Trollkin and Orgun getting +8.
Beyond that I don't think you need to adjust the races because they're balanced unto themselves and are all unique to the IK character setting.
For the classes I've allowed the Bloodlines for the Gun Mage (only Arcane and Destined as written) and tweaked everybody's skills as need be. And I've tweaked the Travel Domain powers replacing Dimensional Hop with Longstrider a number of times per day. I've also allowed the Orisons and Cantrips unlimited numbers per day. Prompting the idea of using create water to fight fires.
I would be more then open to ideas for the other classes particularly the Fell Caller.
Hope some of this helps.
Dragon Bloodline would be appropriate for Scharde.
Most of the classes could be played as-is, with little modding - they were already different then those in the standard rules. That being said, I would love to see PF Bodgers and Gunmages.
I think it would be kinda cool if PP got onboard with PF rules - simialar to what Monte is doing with Malhavoc. Presenting a 'unified front' is the best was to beat the 800 Lb. Gorilla.
Dragon Bloodline would be appropriate for Scharde.
Most of the classes could be played as-is, with little modding - they were already different then those in the standard rules. That being said, I would love to see PF Bodgers and Gunmages.
I think it would be kinda cool if PP got onboard with PF rules - simialar to what Monte is doing with Malhavoc. Presenting a 'unified front' is the best was to beat the 800 Lb. Gorilla.
On this we are in 100% agreement. Sadly most companies like K&K are going with there own system, Hackmaster in that case, True 20 or Conan. The two biggest settings that depended on the PH was IK and I think DragonMech. I would say WOW however it is it's own PH at this point.
Still in a perfect world it would be a great show of force.
Dragon Bloodline would be appropriate for Scharde.
Most of the classes could be played as-is, with little modding - they were already different then those in the standard rules. That being said, I would love to see PF Bodgers and Gunmages.
I think it would be kinda cool if PP got onboard with PF rules - simialar to what Monte is doing with Malhavoc. Presenting a 'unified front' is the best was to beat the 800 Lb. Gorilla.
I'd totally agree with you about the Dragon Bloodline for the Scharde but frankly I'd want something a little more hellishly evil. Maybe combine the Dragon and Demonic bloodlines.
I'd totally agree with you about the Dragon Bloodline for the Scharde but frankly I'd want something a little more hellishly evil. Maybe combine the Dragon and Demonic bloodlines.Dragon Bloodline would be appropriate for Scharde.
Most of the classes could be played as-is, with little modding - they were already different then those in the standard rules. That being said, I would love to see PF Bodgers and Gunmages.
I think it would be kinda cool if PP got onboard with PF rules - simialar to what Monte is doing with Malhavoc. Presenting a 'unified front' is the best was to beat the 800 Lb. Gorilla.
Personally, I'd leave the Dragon Bloodline out the way it's written. Many of its bloodline powers aren't completely off, but the idea of the dragons having bloodlines akin to regular D&D in the Iron Kingdoms makes no sense to me. If i were going to go the route of creating a Sorcerer from the Scharde Islands; I would use the Arcane or Destined Bloodlines, and add the blighted template to the character. OR I would come up with a drastically altered version of the Dragon bloodline using the blighted template for guidance. The later would be more appropriate as they wouldn't be the result of the dragons blood (Morrow forbid) but a result of the blighted corruption of the dragon itself. (I certainly wouldn't allow a PC to have access to either option in this case).
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I'd totally agree with you about the Dragon Bloodline for the Scharde but frankly I'd want something a little more hellishly evil. Maybe combine the Dragon and Demonic bloodlines.Dragon Bloodline would be appropriate for Scharde.
Most of the classes could be played as-is, with little modding - they were already different then those in the standard rules. That being said, I would love to see PF Bodgers and Gunmages.
I think it would be kinda cool if PP got onboard with PF rules - simialar to what Monte is doing with Malhavoc. Presenting a 'unified front' is the best was to beat the 800 Lb. Gorilla.
I can't see why a Gunmage or pistoleer for that matter can't use a crossbows.
If it wasn't for Pathfinder I would only play IK.
I also think this is why they created the new country of Alkenstar, that way if IK does go 4e than pathfinder has a place for the people who don't like 4e.
I'm considering running the Witchfire Trilogy with PF rules but would like to tweak some of the classes & races found in the IKCG to be bit more in line with the classes & races found in the Beta.
The first thing I want to tackle is the gun mage. Do people feel that the gun mage class merits an increase in HD from a d6 to a d8 as well as the ability to use cantrips at will like a sorcerer?
I can't tell you how excited this tread makes me!
I've been also incorporating some IK technology into my PRPG game, slowly and not without difficultly. I think the whole logic of making magical items in IK could port to PRPG, but I'm not sure.
It's great to see some ideas about the gun mage working with the PRPG bloodlines.
Keep it coming! :)
It's great to see some ideas about the gun mage working with the PRPG bloodlines.
I can't say I'm a big fan of gun mages with bloodlines. I think they need their own niche and mirroring bloodlines isn't the best way to go about doing that.
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Prior to Golarion, the Iron Kingdoms was my favorite setting.
The Witch Fire trilogy (rates right up with Paizo quality- one of the best adventures I have ever read- no chance to play it yet though) can easily be set in any setting.
The IK as a whole never seemed to fit with the D&D races and classes to me. The mechanics worked just fine, but the magic and tech levels felt different, the races and classes had a whole different feel to them. Something more...Grunge...
The IK as a whole never seemed to fit with the D&D races and classes to me. The mechanics worked just fine, but the magic and tech levels felt different, the races and classes had a whole different feel to them. Something more...Grunge...
"Steam Punk" is the term I think you're looking for. :)
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mmmmmmm not quite steam punk to me, not quite grunge. Kind of like the original Star Wars triliogy to the second trilogy... ya know how the first one everything was dirty, abused, scratched and worn, and the second series everything was crisp and clean, new and sparkling. IK is the original series to me and D&D is the new series...
Does that make any sense at all?
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mmmmmmm not quite steam punk to me, not quite grunge. Kind of like the original Star Wars triliogy to the second trilogy... ya know how the first one everything was dirty, abused, scratched and worn, and the second series everything was crisp and clean, new and sparkling. IK is the original series to me and D&D is the new series...
Does that make any sense at all?
It does to me...you shouldn't necessarily be reassured by this fact, but it does.
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It does to me...you shouldn't necessarily be reassured by this fact, but it does.mmmmmmm not quite steam punk to me, not quite grunge. Kind of like the original Star Wars triliogy to the second trilogy... ya know how the first one everything was dirty, abused, scratched and worn, and the second series everything was crisp and clean, new and sparkling. IK is the original series to me and D&D is the new series...
Does that make any sense at all?
Oh great this means I definitely need therapy! *cries*
:)
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As someone interested in the Witchfire Trilogy, I have a question regarding the sword Witchfire. It obviously must be a magic weapon, but in what way? What are its powers?
Spoiler below:
It is also a sword of ancient design, full powers unknown. I'll edit this when I get home and put down more (in a non-copyright-infringement type of way).
If you're interested in PLAYING Witchfire, don't use the spoiler above.
Looking to change up the gun mage class from IK to better mesh with the classes in the beta. I reworked the Cast Rune Bullet ability with the following:
Dweamor Bullet (Su)[/b]: At 4th-level, as a move action, the gun mage can sacrifice a spell in order to endow his bullets with special properties. For every two spell levels of the sacrificed spell (rounded down) the gun mage may add a weapon enhancement of +1 value to the bullet fired from his bonded pistol. Example, if a gun mage sacrified a 5th-level spell, he could add two +1 enhacements or a single +2 weapon enhancement to a bullet fired from his magelock pistol.
Thoughts and comments are welcome.
I’m starting a Witchfire trilogy Campaign using the Pathfinder and some Homebrew rules. Some of the most important are “No Accounting” and “Lootless Gaming” (I’ll explain more if anyone is interested). One thing I want to remove is the level penalties for two of the core races: Ogrun and Trollkin. Tweaking the stats to better fit Pathfinders ideal is easy. Fixing the trollkin doesn’t need much work to make comparable to the other races. The Ogrun with is Large size and all its obvious advantages is more difficult. What should I do to keep the Ogrun in line with everyone else?
I’m starting a Witchfire trilogy Campaign using the Pathfinder and some Homebrew rules. Some of the most important are “No Accounting” and “Lootless Gaming” (I’ll explain more if anyone is interested). One thing I want to remove is the level penalties for two of the core races: Ogrun and Trollkin. Tweaking the stats to better fit Pathfinders ideal is easy. Fixing the trollkin doesn’t need much work to make comparable to the other races. The Ogrun with is Large size and all its obvious advantages is more difficult. What should I do to keep the Ogrun in line with everyone else?
Drop the racial hit dice to zero and instead of making them large use this:
Powerful Build:[/b]The physical stature of the ogrun lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
Whenever an ogrun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the ogrun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
An orgun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. An ogrun can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
This is directly borrowed from the psionic half-giant which fits nicely with the orgun IMO.
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Seeing this thread has my heart glad, as I love the IK setting. If memory serves, someone on the IK forums has begun tackling the Pathfinder/IK hybrid (the thread in question is called the Iron Path) and one of the first things I asked about was the gun mage. What they came up with blew me away. I think a link was already posted earlier, but I could be wrong.
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I’m starting a Witchfire trilogy Campaign using the Pathfinder and some Homebrew rules. Some of the most important are “No Accounting” and “Lootless Gaming” (I’ll explain more if anyone is interested). One thing I want to remove is the level penalties for two of the core races: Ogrun and Trollkin. Tweaking the stats to better fit Pathfinders ideal is easy. Fixing the trollkin doesn’t need much work to make comparable to the other races. The Ogrun with is Large size and all its obvious advantages is more difficult. What should I do to keep the Ogrun in line with everyone else?
I have been considering critters with plus modified ECLs as well. And looking at the IK site someone had a great idea for Pathfinder games and eliminating the ECL problem. Use the critter as is, except that player has to use the Slow XP chart for levels equal to his ECL. Other players use the normal XP chart. Once the Ogrun has completed his 2 levels (or whatever it is)and is level 3, he moves over to the normal xp chart at level 3. Other players should be a bit ahead by that point. But then over time the difference between levels closes to negliable at higher levels where the ECL really doesn't make any difference any more.
This is the only good use I have found for that XP chart.
I have been considering critters with plus modified ECLs as well. And looking at the IK site someone had a great idea for Pathfinder games and eliminating the ECL problem. Use the critter as is, except that player has to use the Slow XP chart for levels equal to his ECL. Other players use the normal XP chart. Once the Ogrun has completed his 2 levels (or whatever it is)and is level 3, he moves over to the normal xp chart at level 3. Other players should be a bit ahead by that point. But then over time the difference between levels closes to negliable at higher levels where the ECL really doesn't make any difference any more.
This is the only good use I have found for that XP chart.
I will absolutely not use different XP progressions. One of the finer points to my "no accounting" rule is that everyone will have the same XP regardless of attendance, contribution or lack there of.
I found a used copy for $66. (And a new one for $111.84.) Tell me, is it worth the $66? Be honest.
I purchased mine for $50 and never have regretted it. The liber Mechanika is a kind of mixed bag, there are some great ideas in it but some of the implementation left me a bit sour.
WHich book in particular. I assume the Setting book.Sorry, I meant the Witchfire Trilogy Collected Edition. Which book were you referring to, Epervier?
Iron Kingdoms Character Guide. The Witchfire Trilogy I purchased for 10% off cover price. It was the first book I got from privateer press, mostly for the size and looks. It sat on my shelf for a couple of years waiting for my other campaign to end. After I started reading Witchfire I knew I had to get all the other books for this world setting. The world guide has probably the most fluff of all the books with bearly any rules material within it.
$66 for the witchfire Collected volume, eh? I'm not sure its worth that much. although it started as a $40 book in 2005, so $22 over retail price in three years might be acceptable for someone.
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$66 for the witchfire Collected volume, eh? I'm not sure its worth that much. although it started as a $40 book in 2005, so $22 over retail price in three years might be acceptable for someone.
eBay usually has the Character Guide or World Guide for 60-80, and Liber Mechanika for about the same (which is the only book I DON'T feel is worth that) Luckily, I got all mine for cover price, but I would have happily paid $60 for the Character Guide & World Guide.
Unfortunately, PP has no current plans to do a reprint, so prices are just going to go one way.