Rogues don't have Sense Motive?

[Oni Shogun]

Is this a mistake? I notice rogues are not listed as having sense motive anymore. Please tell me this is a mistake.

[Freesword]

It is not listed in the class skills for Rogues on p38 of Alpha 3 but is listed as a class skill for Rogues on the table on p54. I suspect the chart is right and it was missed in the listing on the Rogue description when converting from Alpha 1 skill system (where it was rolled into Deception along with Bluff) to Alpha 2 which has the exact same discrepancy. Hopefully we can get a confirmation on which is correct from Jason.

[Gene 95]

Scott Henry wrote:

Is this a mistake? I notice rogues are not listed as having sense motive anymore. Please tell me this is a mistake.

Well, the table on page 54 states it's a class skill for them. However, text beats tables. But in this case I'd say it was an oversight on the editor's part.

EDIT: Bah, ninja'd! :p

[Oni Shogun]

Freesword wrote:

It is not listed in the class skills for Rogues on p38 of Alpha 3 but is listed as a class skill for Rogues on the table on p54. I suspect the chart is right and it was missed in the listing on the Rogue description when converting from Alpha 1 skill system (where it was rolled into Deception along with Bluff) to Alpha 2 which has the exact same discrepancy. Hopefully we can get a confirmation on which is correct from Jason.

So Bluff and Sense motive are now both Deception? That would be nice. I was converting my Tiefling Rogue into Pathfinder when I noticed there was no sense motive.

[Reddog]

Bring deception back I loved this combination of skills. I don't want pathfinder to be like 4th edition but I like the 4th edition skill tree. I would like the skill tree to be a little more condenced.

[Disciple of Sakura]

Bah! Just because you know when you're being lied to does not mean you know how to lie. Being particularly charismatic doesn't help you tell when someone's spilling falsehoods like being perceptive does. It's a completely illogical combination.

IF you were to roll sense motive into another skill, Perception would be the most logical one, but that makes it such an incredibly useful skill that everyone would take it... Bad idea.

[SirUrza]

And if you look at the Skill Section, Sense Motive isn't a skill yet. But Sense Motive isn't the only skill on that chart not in the skill section yet. :)

I would say go by the chart.

[Freesword]

SirUrza wrote:

And if you look at the Skill Section, Sense Motive isn't a skill yet. But Sense Motive isn't the only skill on that chart not in the skill section yet. :)

I would say go by the chart.

Below the tables on p53 "The following descriptions include all the relevant rules you need to use the new skills in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game." (emphasis mine).

Those missing skills should be unchanged from SRD. Since Bluff and Sense Motive are separate skills again since Alpha 2 and the description of Bluff state it is opposed by Sense Motive the chart is most likely correct.

[Oni Shogun]

So do rogues have Sense Motive or not? I'd say they do as Paizo is supposed to be going off the SRD and Rogues have sense motive. Rogues are indeed trained to notice things like when they are being lied to or say when someone else is going for a bluff in a combat so they can feint and then sneak attack them. I am going with the theory that this is a mistake with them not having it on their skill list, as someone else did point out that it's on a table of skills they are supposed to have.