I have no problem with the way Metamagic feats are used, in general. However, in my monthly game one player has an Ultimate Magus character and the way that prestige class handles Metamagic use is something I would like to see with metamagic feats in general:
the caster can drop a level X spell to power metamagic, X being the level equivalent of the + required for the usually learned metamagicked spell. Further, so that the Ultimate Magus still has some use I'd rule that this only works for Caster Level divided by 5, rounded up, so that a wizard CL 10 would only be allowed to drop spells of lvls 1 and 2 to power metamagic. It would also fit nicely with various literary examples, where, all of the sudden, the spellcaster can improve his spell, on the fly. To make this equal for every class, casting a metamagicked spell this way requires a full round action.
Thoughts?
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I think I understand what you're suggesting. Our group's problem is that people still tend to avoid using metamagic spells because they don't like to forfeit higher level spells that they've worked to acquire.
Here's a thought I just came up with.
How about the caster sacrifices a number of hit points equal to the spell slot advancement of a metamagic spell. He wouldn't have to sacrifice any spells that way, and the cost would essentially be the toll it takes on his to exert such force required by a metamagic spell.
I like that! However, I'd rather go the way of sacrificing Constitution points, since cure wounds spells can negate the HP loss quickly, restoration is slightly more difficult since the cleric/healer would have to memorize those spells instead of merely converting one of his other spells into healing or use the positive energy thingy.
I also have given my original post some more thought:
the spell (or Con-points) sacrificed can only go to that point to which the caster can actually "learn" a metamagicked spell anyways. To clarify: if a metamagicked spell would require a lvl 6 slot, but the caster can only cast lvl 5 spells, this spell cannot be metamagicked that way,
Yet, Con damage cannot be mended by a simple cure light wounds spell. Plus, it does have a little more flair, I think. The wizard sacrifices something for his power.
Every cut and scrape is HP based, but if you wanna blast your foes to smithereens with a fireball that is equivalent to dragon breath you gotta pay.
Also, Con damage limits the use far more than HPs would. HP loss would still mean the wizard can pump out metamagicked spells almost every round because he knows he will be healed, plus at lvl 10 or so a wizard has an average of 35 HPs, if not more, yet his Con is likely to remain unchanged. A Con score of, maybe, 12, would allow a maximum of 5 +2 spell level enhancements before the wizard should really stop. With 35 HPs he could pump out 17 +2 enhancements, and THAT would really be unbalanced.
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Alternatively, the feats could be re-written to include a specific cost or tax on the caster.
I agree with your logic about the issue of hp cost. However, I remain wary about tracking Con costs (including hps and Fort Sv) with each use. Doesn't seem streamlined or easy to track. Maybe there's another way.
We use Condition Tracking in our game. I.e., damage that exceeds the Massive Damage Threshold results in -1 to Attack, CMB, Saves and Skill checks. Maybe a metamagic feat will require the same. I wouldn't want to make the penalty equal to the number of spell slots sacrificed, but perhaps each metamagic feat will do this once per use. The problem of course, is that this is imbalancing with regards to the various metamagic feats.
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Here's a thought:
At a sacrifice of hitpoints equal to the cost of spell slots sacrificed per each feat, cast spells at augmented strength or design. Additionally, each casting beyond the first cast in a 24 hour period has the character make a Fort Sv. v. the Spell DC to resist becoming fatigued. Once fatigued, to cast more, the Fort Sv. will be v. exhaustion. (Standard rules for recovery apply.)
Feedback?
I like that.
Would it mean that even despite magics to remove fatigue, the caster will take heavier hits?
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I like that.
Would it mean that even despite magics to remove fatigue, the caster will take heavier hits?
I'd be reluctant to say that fatigue (and exhaustion) can't be removed without magic. So, IMO, a cleric could refresh the caster. Of course, then the wizard's magic still proves a drain on the group.
This wouldn't be a complete disincentive to use metamagic, but the caster would clearly have to consider the ramifications of doing so.
I like that.
Would it mean that even despite magics to remove fatigue, the caster will take heavier hits?
I'd be reluctant to say that fatigue (and exhaustion) can't be removed without magic. So, IMO, a cleric could refresh the caster. Of course, then the wizard's magic still proves a drain on the group.
This wouldn't be a complete disincentive to use metamagic, but the caster would clearly have to consider the ramifications of doing so.
It binds resources, I see where you are going with this, but when I think about it I don't see much of a difference to a Con drain...
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You may be right. To be honest, I'm just shying away from ability damage. There are so many things impacted and needing tracked once a character suffers ability damage, that I'm trying to find a way to keep the game moving as quickly and seemlessly as possible without people grabbing their pencils and scratching in variables.
True, the bookkeeping might be a problem, but any player worth his salt, especially a caster-player, would most likely prepare the statchanges in advance. Ability damage is "rare", so planning ahead and thus knowing how much it costs dos not seem unlikely.
Plus: with Con damage you would actually be able to simulate the coughing of blood seen with Raistlin Majere and stuff.
Also, you could introduce a feat (stackable) that does reduce the Con damage. Such a feat might be space wasted in a PHB, but things like an additional +3 HPs for a feat are just as, if not even more, pointless.
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Also, you could introduce a feat (stackable) that does reduce the Con damage. Such a feat might be space wasted in a PHB, but things like an additional +3 HPs for a feat are just as, if not even more, pointless.
Maybe Toughness itself can be the solution? Maybe toughness would all a +3 to Fort Sv v. Fatigue/Con Damage/or whatever route is taken.
Also, you could introduce a feat (stackable) that does reduce the Con damage. Such a feat might be space wasted in a PHB, but things like an additional +3 HPs for a feat are just as, if not even more, pointless.Maybe Toughness itself can be the solution? Maybe toughness would all a +3 to Fort Sv v. Fatigue/Con Damage/or whatever route is taken.
Now here is a good use for the Toughness feat! 3 hps might not be a lot but add to this +3 on fort saves to avoid con damage makes the feat worth taking.
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Of course, an alternative would be Great Fortitude. A wizard may be more inclined to adopt this feat if she's a big time metamagic caster.
(Toughness +3 may be a bit too much, given Great Fortitude. But perhaps it could provide a +1 to Fortitude . . which stacks with Great Fortitude. Hmm. Thoughts?)
Of course, an alternative would be Great Fortitude. A wizard may be more inclined to adopt this feat if she's a big time metamagic caster.
(Toughness +3 may be a bit too much, given Great Fortitude. But perhaps it could provide a +1 to Fortitude . . which stacks with Great Fortitude. Hmm. Thoughts?)
+1 to fortitude sounds fine to me.
Why not use the rules for spell-like ability feats? They require a minimum caster level to metamagic a minimum spell level, and you can do it three times per day without altering the spell's level.