[CM] Demoralize and Improved Demoralize feat


New Rules Suggestions

Liberty's Edge

Combat maneuver: Demoralize
As a move action, you can attempt to demoralize your opponent and give him the shaken condition. To demoralize, make a combat maneuver check and add your Intimidate skill modifier (or your Charisma modifier if you don't have ranks in Intimidate). The DC of this check is equal to 15 + target’s CMB + target's Hit Dice + target's Wisdom modifier + any bonuses to saves against fear effects.
If the combat maneuver is successful, the target gains the shaken condition for one round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.
You cannot demoralize a creature lacking an Intelligence or a Wisdom score or immune to fear.

Improved Demoralize
Prerequisites: CHA 13, BAB +5.
Benefit: You can perform a demoralize combat maneuver as a swift action. You receive a +2 bonus on demoralize combat maneuvers. When you are targeted by a demoralize combat maneuver, the DC of the maneuver is increased by 2.
If the combat maneuver is successful, the target gains the shaken condition for one round. This duration increases by 2 rounds for every 5 by which you beat the DC.
If you have 10 HD more than the demoralized target, the target gains the frightened condition. The duration of the frightened condition is 1 round + 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC.

Normal: See the demoralize combat maneuver.

Notes
The demoralize combat maneuver is designed on the same system as the feint combat menuver (see here) It also replaces the Demoralize aspect of the Intimidate check.

Liberty's Edge

It also replaces the Dazzling Display (Combat) feat.


I'm not sure about adding both CMB (which contains BAB) plus HD, as well as CMB (which contains Str) plus Wis to a base DC of 15.
Seems to me that it should just be 15 + CMB (like all other maneuvers), probably also with bonuses vs fear effects applied.

Though I have to say that using Str for the "attack" bonus and "defence" does seem a little odd. Especially in light of the discussion on the other thread about Intimidate...

Liberty's Edge

gr1bble wrote:

I'm not sure about adding both CMB (which contains BAB) plus HD, as well as CMB (which contains Str) plus Wis to a base DC of 15.

Seems to me that it should just be 15 + CMB (like all other maneuvers), probably also with bonuses vs fear effects applied.

The HD is used in the Intimidate skill) as an indication of the target's power.

If we drop the HD from the DC, intimdating a level 10 wizard (BAB +5, STR 10, WIS 10) would have a DC of 20.

A 5th level fighter with a STR of 19 would have a CMB = 5 + 4 and would intimidate the wizard with twice his levels on roll of 11 or more.

I'm not sure that is a desirable situation.


Locworks wrote:

Combat maneuver: Demoralize

As a move action, you can attempt to demoralize your opponent and give him the shaken condition....

Interesting solution. Mechanic does offer a thought-out balance, too, which is good. Add Chris Mortika's idea of circumstance bonuses to encourage role-playing as well as roll-playing, and this addition becomes a solid contender worthy of broader consideration.

Relatively speaking, it has a lot of math, though, which makes it harder to remember and hence a game-slower when used, unless your group is very sharp in the area. That's just fine with some gamers, not such a feature for others.

The way around this, of course, would be to make the feat the key for some kind of morale rating mechanic (based on, say, target’s CMB + target's Hit Dice + target's Wisdom modifier + any bonuses to saves against fear effects). Then each monster/NPC would have an easy to reference DC morale rating a la 2ED, and the ability would become easier to use.

Of course, requiring changes in other rulesets that would become an important addition to the game is a high bar to set...

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