Class Skills and Bards / Rogues (page 37)


Skills & Feats


I really like the fact that there's no more Cross-Class Skill and that a +3 bonus is given to Class Skills. You can buy any Skill you like and Class Skills now have a REAL usefulness (other than complicating the Skills system!)… I just think that Bards and Rogues have a too easy time netting the +3 bonus (almost all the Skills are Class Skills to them).

I know that Bards are a knowledgeable bunch, but having EVERY Knowledge Skills as Class Skills is a bit overkill IMHO, as are all the physically-dependent Skills (such as Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, etc.). About the Knowledge Skills, a solution could be to make Bards select a number of Knowledge Skills at first level (3 or 4). This way, no two Bards would be perfect copies as they would be customizable. As for the physically-dependent Skills, a Bard is IMHO a performer, not a swashbuckler! Ditch some of those Skills (like Climb or Stealth)!

Concerning the Rogue, a similar method could be used for Skills "designed" specifically for them (such a Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, etc.). A stealthy-minded Rogue would thus have different Class Skills than a assassination-oriented one. They would both be more efficient in specific parts of being a Rogue (e.g. +3 on Stealth for the former, +3 on Bluff for the latter), but they would be able to perform other tasks, albeit less efficiently (e.g. Bluff for the former, Stealth for the latter).

Looking at the Class Skills, I really think Rogues and Bards are almost interchangeable where Class Skills are considered. Granted, they have far different Class abilities, but beside the Knowledge Skills, they almost have the same Class Skills…

Sovereign Court

I wholly agree with you on this. And due to that, I reply, as I intend to raise more attention to this idea. I've been noticing some sudden thread closing at random, which really ticks me off.

Liberty's Edge

I haven't noticed any thread closing. If you have, you can always ask about it and they'll explain what happened. If it didn't fall into the archive, it was probably moved to a more appropriate forum (or the forums hiccupped and it will be back).

In any case, I don't think the rogue or the bard need to have a more restricted skill list. Yes, if you have 12 skills at 1st level you can put them in 12 different skills and have effectively 48 skill points. That's really the way it is in 3.5 already. And you can choose to advance those skills by 1 point each level, and always have a bonus of level +3.

Or you could choose to put your 12 1st level skill points in class skills, and your 2nd level skill points in different class skills. At 2nd level you would have 24 skills with a +4 bonus. But if you want to make that work, you're going to have to keep advancing them every other level. So, at 20th level you'll have a +13 in 24 skills. Sure, that's more than the +4 Int rogue in 3.5 (equivalent of 312 skill points instead of the normal 276) but it is a generally well established fact that many skills you really need maximum ranks to benefit from if you're engaged against level appropriate encounters.

So, I don't think it is necessary. There is some truth in 8 skill points for a rogue to be too many considering how many of their skills have been combined. That may be worth considering, but reducing the number of class skills seems unneccessary.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

DeadDMWalking wrote:
[stuff about rogue class skills being fine]

Seconded on all counts.

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