I will do this in my next game anyway.
It's perfectly ok for me as a GM and a player to let the XP aside since, the only interesting event is the level-up.
The Pros without XP:
1) No need to calculate XP-rewards, just level up when the GM feels it's about time.
2) No mess with PCs having different levels.
3) No need for new XP-charts since the old one isn't OGL
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The only thing that would went missing would be to reward good players for creativity or good in-role acting.
But since I am going to use heroic points (of some sort) that's just an even better way for rewarding good players.
The only thing that would went missing would be to reward good players for creativity or good in-role acting.
I also like giving XP for "good" players. However, I see this as more and more problematic, as it increases the power of PC's already played by the stronger players. Over time, this will increase their dominance even more.
So, I now prefer letting good roleplaying and creativity be its own reward. This does indeed question the need for XP...
As a sign for the PCs of progress between levels, it still has use, though.
Just imagine HOW MUCH bookkeeping would go the way of the dodo!
How much time would the GM get to concentrate on more important things!
A besides, no more breaking a head over how many encounters per level up rubbish. It's YOUR game. YOU decide when it's time for the next level of challenges.
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This is exactly what I do already. No XP calculation, just level up when the DM says so - appropriate for the challenge level of the next chapter.
Most adventures tell you what level characters need to be to begin, so no problem there. However, Pathfinder adventure paths do need to clearly indicate when is the appropriate point to level up mid-adventure.
The maths is time-consuming, no fun, just a headache, serves no real benefit, and should be eliminated.
The three-column Pathfinder XP table should be replaced with suggested number of challenging encounters before each level-up.
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I have also stopped using XP in my campaign. But I see no reason to remove them from the rules. Now that XP costs have been eliminated, I can give the players a levelup from time to time when they deserve it. But its quite easily done under the XP system. So, as there are people who like using XP, those rules might as well stay in the game.
The last campaign I ran, the PC's got a level after each of the first 4 sessions. I wanted to get off to a fast start, without starting at a higher level. After that it was a level after every other session. Generally 4 hour sessions.
Whatever the PC's wanted to spend their time doing, didn't much matter to me. They still got a level for it.
If you played every weekend you'd be hitting 15th in 6 months, which is about right for me to end a campaign. Level-wise and in amount of time played.
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... serves no real benefit, and should be eliminated.
Okay, I'm revising my previous thoughts on this.
While it may be okay for home games to level up when the GM or the published adventure says so; some consideration needs to be given to Pathfinder Society organised play.
At conventions, you need some mechanism to ensure that players are advancing at a fair pace with regard to one-another. XP recorded on log sheets have been the standard mechanism to achieve this.
However, at the end of a session, the headache every GM and player faces is filling out their character log sheets - awarding XP, GP, time units, story awards, treasure etc. You're session ran over-time, and you have to dash to grab a bite to eat before your next session. Minimising number crunching can speed this process substantially.
If XP are elminated, then maybe a standard number of play sessions advance you to the next level. Something as simple as the number of sessions required to gain your next level, is the number of that level. For example, two play sessions to advance from 1st level to 2nd; 6 play sessions to advance from 5th level to 6th; etc.
There may need to be an adjustment for characters played out of level, eg a 5th level character playing in a session recommended for 3rd level only counts as half a session, to discourage players from always playing over their level for greater rewards, or beneath their level for easier challenges. Maybe each session could be worth 4 points, less one point for every level your character is played out of tier.
Anyway, I'm sure Paizo and Pathfinder Society can work out the maths to be something simple and appropriate. But that's the basic idea.
Interesting idea, but the amount of sessions should probably be a static number. Just like it takes an average of 13 encounters to gain a level regardless of level, it should be a static number of sessions.
Besides it would start to take far too long to gain a level. What, 15 sessions to get from 6th level to 8th? That's a long time. It would be about the same amount of time to get from 1st to 5th level. It doesn't seem bad at the low end, but past midlevels it's way too long.
I've definitely considered this. And I definitely have given out levels to the technically unqualified, to prevent them from interrupting the adventure later.
But I get stuck on this issue: how do you get around death and level drain? Just have the person at the lower level forever? In both WotC and PF, you will eventually catch up, though for different reasons.
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Yes. That's right. Remove XP altogether.
You can put away the torches and pitchforks now, heheheh.
Since XP costs have been removed in Pathfinder, having an XP system that isn't used to balance spell usage and magic item creation becomes a unnecessary complication.
The system of level advancement can be greatly simplified with recommendations on the number of challenges of given levels before a party of adventurers advances. Monsters, traps, and non-combat related challenges can be factored in to the equation and the game master can more easily customize the rate of level advancement according to the levels of adventures desired for the party rather than worrying about how many monsters to send up.For example, party of five PCs at level 7 advancing to level 8: monsters with total CR 100 + traps with total CR 50 + role-playing challenges with total CR 200, with no single trap monster, or challenge exceeding CR 9
NOTE: This is just a hypothetical example, not a recommendation.On the off chance that Pathfinder RPG is used for a living campaign, instead of XP awards, each adventure would have a rating of easy (1 point), moderate (2 points), or difficult (3 points) with PCs gaining 10 points in their level range (1-3, 4-6, 7-9, etc.) to advance a level.
I award 300 xp multiplied by the average party level per session. I started doing this several years ago and found it really simplified things.
I dont have a problem with experience point systems themself. My problem is with the D&D XP system itself. I much prefer systems such as White Wolf or Unisystem for several reasons:
1) You are rewarded for playing the game itself including awards for good roleplaying (not average, not showing up, not rolling dice...for good roleplaying).
2) It keeps the numbers lower. Part of the thing I dont like about the D&D system is the tens of thousands of XP it involves. A total of CR per level keeps these down but doesnt address point 1.
3) In 3.5 there really is no substantial reward for playing your character well, even if you the player know better than to do something. Playing your character to the hilt should be rewarded. This is a roleplaying game after all.
4) The experience system as it is largely encourages the hack and slash, nuke em from orbit mindset because most of not all rewards are from killing creatures. Mind you the rules say for defeating/overcomming the encounter ...it does not state you have to kill them. Unfortunately to many this means kill only. Wheras, I would take it as if you fast talk your way out of being eaten by ogres you should get the same xp reward as if you killed them.
These problems are not enough to make me not want to play D&D however. It just means my groups tends to house rule a lot regarding XP.
Regarding the proposal to change it from the current XP to a CR total...this is just another way of expressing experience points that means smaller total.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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Interesting idea, but the amount of sessions should probably be a static number. Just like it takes an average of 13 encounters to gain a level regardless of level, it should be a static number of sessions.
Besides it would start to take far too long to gain a level. What, 15 sessions to get from 6th level to 8th? That's a long time. It would be about the same amount of time to get from 1st to 5th level. It doesn't seem bad at the low end, but past midlevels it's way too long.
Yeah, I considered this too. My reasoning was that everyone pretty much wants to jump past 1st level, and when I've played Living Greyhawk or Living Arcanis, an intro adventure plus one is usually all it takes to advance to second level, but higher levels usually require more effort.
I think I'll rummage through my old Living Greyhawk and Living Arcanis ARs (Adventure Records) to see how many sessions were required to advance the characters I've played to each level. That should give a good benchmark.