|
Star Wars Saga Edition has an interesting way of tracking damage's wear and tear on characters via its condition track. For Pathfinder, it would be like this:
1. Take damage equal to your Constitution score and you suffer a -1 on attacks, damage, skill checks, and saves. This remains until you heal yourself an amount equal to your Consititution score.
2. Each time you suffer additional damage while dropped from "normal" condition, you suffer double the cumulative penalty, i.e., -2, -4, -8. At -4, you are only able to make one standard or move action per turn. At -8, you are unconscious and dying.
3. Thus, you can slowly dwindle in hitpoints and reach 0 with little effect to your combat prowess . . . or you can find yourself beaten down. Much depends on the extent damage is being dished out in doses.
4. Condition track also resembles, in some fashion, negative energy damage/drain. Ultimately, I'd like to have one rule for all. This is a start.
Please, please no.
While I am generally a great fan of "Wound level" mechanics, it just doesnt work well or feel right in D&D or a direct derivation of D&D. I have to say no to the condition track as well.
-Weylin
Why? It's worked quite well in our gaming group.
It will work fine for some groups as a house rule. However, the HP system isn't really in need of an overhaul. Pathfinder is being designed with a focus on backwards compatibility; changing a system that isn't in need of change does nothing but move the game further from this goal.
Sorry, I should have posted a bit more detailed comment. Didn't mean to be flip there. Anyway, here is how I see it.
In Star Wars Saga, I don't think a condition track hurts the game. Not only does it reinforce the idea that even at high level something like a blaster can hurt you, it also serves as kind of a replacement for the various things that can happen to a D&D character, which brings me to my point.
Much more so than in Saga, characters in D&D can get cursed, buffed, debuffed, have ongoing damage applied, have various alternate forms of movement applied, get hasted, etc. Potentially, especially at higher levels, there is much more room to have various conditions applied already, beyond any conditions that might come up due to fatigue or injury.
About the closest thing to this that I like in D&D is the "Death from Massive Damage" rule and the "Two twenties threaten an automatic kill" rule from the DMG.
|
|
We used a Condition track based on Hit Points. It seemed to work well, and added a sense of drama to the encounter. And it allowed the classes without cure spells to effect a sort of healing to keep in the game. I'll post our "3.75" Condition Track below...
Condition Track
Any time your hit point total lowers by 25%, it reduces your combat effectiveness, much as encumbrance can affect a character. A character or creature at full hit points is assumed to be in a “normal” state, which represents one end of the condition track. Every time a character’s a character’s hit point total falls below the damage threshold (25% of the total hit points available), you move one step down the condition track. When a creature reaches 0 hit points, he is considered unconscious. A creature or character that falls below 0 hit points by an amount equal to his damage threshold is considered dead.
Full Hit Points or lower Normal; No penalties
75% Hit Points or lower -1 penalty to Armor Class; -1 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
50% Hit Points or lower -2 penalty to Armor Class;-2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks.
25% Hit Points or lower Move at half speed;-5 penalty to Armor Class-5 penalty on ability checks, attack rolls, ability checks, and skill checks,
0 Hit points or lower Helpless (Unconscious)
Below -25% Hit Points Dead
Removing Condition
You can improve your condition by spending a swift action to use Second Wind (see below), to increase your hit points by 25%, or by resting for six consecutive hours.
Second Wind: You can improve your hit points by an amount equal to your damage threshold by using a swift action to use Second Wind. You can use Second Wind only once per encounter.
Resting: Resting for six consecutive, uninterrupted hours will restore a character to full hit points, returning you to a normal state.
While I like the idea of a condition track, I'm against it because it's such a drastic change to the system.
Also, Saga Edition had ways where one could easily create a character that could knock an enemy three steps down the condition track in a single attack.
Second Wind: You can improve your hit points by an amount equal to your damage threshold by using a swift action to use Second Wind. You can use Second Wind only once per encounter.
Resting: Resting for six consecutive, uninterrupted hours will restore a character to full hit points, returning you to a normal state.
NO. Just no. Absolutely not. This is one of the things I hate most about 4e; it's that entire videogame, combat-centric mindset creeping further into D&D: fireball, fireball, fire blast, eat/drink, repeat.
HP in 3e is physical damage. Characters do not heal all their wounds in six hours. Characters also do not have the magic ability to heal themselves with a "second wind."
I am wholly dead-set against any sort of change like the one you mentioned. It works in Saga Edition, but it doesn't work in 3e.
|
|
HP isn't always about damage. HP can represent exhaustion, fatigue, and etc. HP as damage is almost purely a 3rd Edition mindset. In earlier editions of D&D, Hit Points were more ambiguous. At least D20 Star Wars separated the HP from Wound Points; D&D still uses just HP (which I admit is simpler to track), but for both purposes.
Like I said, in 3e, HP loss represents physical damage. Shifting to the 4e mindset is a surefire way to lose my business.
|
|
Like I said, in 3e, HP loss represents physical damage. Shifting to the 4e mindset is a surefire way to lose my business.
Well, take out the Remove Condition, Second Wind, and Resting rules, and you are left with the HP loss represents physical damage, and the condition track uses the HP system to reflect one's degradation in combat due to such physical damage.
I like it. Currently, we're playing with the Condition Track that reflects Damage Threshold. So, I may need to sell it to a group that is still acclimating to our current house rule.
Like I said, in 3e, HP loss represents physical damage. Shifting to the 4e mindset is a surefire way to lose my business.Well, take out the Remove Condition, Second Wind, and Resting rules, and you are left with the HP loss represents physical damage, and the condition track uses the HP system to reflect one's degradation in combat due to such physical damage.
I like it. Currently, we're playing with the Condition Track that reflects Damage Threshold. So, I may need to sell it to a group that is still acclimating to our current house rule.
I think that a condition track is a good house rule, but not good for Pathfinder, as it is a very large change overall.
|
|
Frankly, I see a Condition Track as a relatively easy thing to implement. It's a post-it, not a revision. That said, I'm also not going to bang a gong chanting this up if Paizo has said, "No."
I guess one question that Paizo hasn't really answered is What's Out/What's In. This might help streamline out feedback in a lot of areas.
Keep it as a house rule. Don't make it standard.
|
Star Wars Saga Edition has an interesting way of tracking damage's wear and tear on characters via its condition track. For Pathfinder, it would be like this:
1. Take damage equal to your Constitution score and you suffer a -1 on attacks, damage, skill checks, and saves. This remains until you heal yourself an amount equal to your Consititution score.
2. Each time you suffer additional damage while dropped from "normal" condition, you suffer double the cumulative penalty, i.e., -2, -4, -8. At -4, you are only able to make one standard or move action per turn. At -8, you are unconscious and dying.
3. Thus, you can slowly dwindle in hitpoints and reach 0 with little effect to your combat prowess . . . or you can find yourself beaten down. Much depends on the extent damage is being dished out in doses.
4. Condition track also resembles, in some fashion, negative energy damage/drain. Ultimately, I'd like to have one rule for all. This is a start.
I proposed a similar house rule to my players, which was left out though in favor of the wounds/vitality system (from UA).
It was based on the Con score, with tiers of lost HP (instead of remaining ones), and the relative table changed every 4 levels.
First Tier - HP lost = 0/Con No maluses
Second Tier - HP lost = Con+1/2xCon -1 malus to BAB, saves, ability&skill checks
Third Tier - HP lost = 2xCon+1/3xCon -2 malus to BAB, saves, ability&skill checks
Fourth Tier - HP lost = 3xCon+1/4xCon -3 malus to BAB, saves, ability&skill checks
and so on...
At 5th level, the first tier went from 0 to 2xCon; successive ones changed accordingly.
At 9th level, the first and the second tiers went from 0 to 2x and from 2xCon+1 to 4xCon respectively; successive ones changed accordingly.
At 13th level, the first tier went from 0 to 3xCon, the second one went from 3xCon+1 to 5xCon; successive tiers changed accordingly.
At 17th level, the first tier went from 0 to 3xCon and the second one went from 3xCon+1 to 6xCon; successive tiers changed accordingly.
This progression was calculated for frontline-type characters (fighters, paladins, monks); I had in mind to use a slightly improved table for barbarians (an improved first or an improved third tier), a moderately worse one for secondline-type characters (clerics, rangers, druids) and a mediocre one for other characters (arcane spellcasters and roguish ones).
|
While I like the idea of a condition track, I'm against it because it's such a drastic change to the system.
Also, Saga Edition had ways where one could easily create a character that could knock an enemy three steps down the condition track in a single attack.
Second Wind: You can improve your hit points by an amount equal to your damage threshold by using a swift action to use Second Wind. You can use Second Wind only once per encounter.
Resting: Resting for six consecutive, uninterrupted hours will restore a character to full hit points, returning you to a normal state.
NO. Just no. Absolutely not. This is one of the things I hate most about 4e; it's that entire videogame, combat-centric mindset creeping further into D&D: fireball, fireball, fire blast, eat/drink, repeat.
HP in 3e is physical damage. Characters do not heal all their wounds in six hours. Characters also do not have the magic ability to heal themselves with a "second wind."
I am wholly dead-set against any sort of change like the one you mentioned. It works in Saga Edition, but it doesn't work in 3e.
I totally agree and it bothers me that people who want all this stuff that is gonna be in 4E want to pollute PathfinderRPG with it also. If you want that stuff then play 4E. PathfinderRPG is trying to stick with the roots of D&D. I don't remember damage thresholds in D&D's roots. I do remember Hit points, clerics that could heal people, and vancian magic.
If you wanna kill sacred cows then WotC has a pasture for you.