I like the IDEA of the soulknife, but it seems pretty weak compared to just about any other melee class. Any ideas how to fix it? Fighter's base attack bonus? Better skills/ more skill points? Or do you not think it needs to be fixed at all?
I've heard this class get ridiculed often, and I'd like to make it work.
Though I've yet to use it, I actually like the class as is. My favorite aspect is how the soulknife can spend resources in places other than their weapon, as it continues to grow and develope with them.
There are plenty of built in options for their mindblade and the ability damage at higher levels isn't anything to ignore.
What is it that you don't like about the class?
-Kurocyn
It's combat weak.
Some friends of mine, worried about the weakness of the soulknife, decided to incentiveize it a little so that a cool character concept could survive next to us power gamers. The solution: add a tiny few Book of 9 Swords maneuvers. I wasn't playing the soulknife or DMing, but for the first couple levels he got one, maybe two maneuvers a day, and all were Setting Sun, although I don't know what he had to choose from.
Alas, my data vanishes after a few levels, as the PC was butchered due to terrible combat tactics during a dangerous game of cat, mouse, and paladin on psionic land-speeder. Seemed like a good idea though.
It's combat weak.
When compared to what? A barbarian with a greataxe. Yeah. But there stats lean them towards second line/specialized combatants, not tanks or meatshields.
Many of its abilities allow for added accuracy and/or additional damage, it has decent hit die, a moderate BAB, good saves, you can't argue with the free/shapable/"unbreakable" weapon, and eventually you gain various abilities to enhance it (again, for free).
Add in you favorite set(s) of feat trees you're set.
-Kurocyn
When compared to what? A barbarian with a greataxe. Yeah. But there stats lean them towards second line/specialized combatants, not tanks or meatshields.Many of its abilities allow for added accuracy and/or additional damage, it has decent hit die, a moderate BAB, good saves, you can't argue with the free/shapable/"unbreakable" weapon, and eventually you gain various abilities to enhance it (again, for free).
Add in you favorite set(s) of feat trees you're set.
-Kurocyn
Think about it this way: On the page before the Soulknife we have the Psychic Warrior, a class that is basically a Soulknife with more powers. If you wanted to, without even taking the old Soulknife prestige class, you can build a Soulknife and still have powers and feats left over. And Psychic Warriors, while strong, particularly with only one combat per day, are not at the top of the curve even among the various Gish options available. That doesn't even count non-Gish comparisons.
Further, soulknifes don't have any non-combat abilities to make their combat weakness worthwhile. Rogues and bards for example are also a little weak in combat, but have special non-combat mechanics to make up for it.
Sad little soulknife. Poor little soulknife.
I think the soulknife works as is, as well, BUT, there are some fun other options like Dreamscarred's Mind Blade Feats is a great way to add a mind blade to another class (psychic warrior is most obvious, but rogue is a fun one, too). I also thought about a Bo9S set of maneuvers would be fun and sketched out some ideas but never got around to fleshing it out. The class is pretty tightly focused and it is easy to take the soulknife's main shtick and easily add it to more rounded classes.
I'm still not seeing your point. If anything, you've listed yet another pro of Soulknives. Same arguement I have with melee vs spell casters, btw.
Soulknives can maintian their effectiveness throughout the day. Powers/spells run out.
And you might as well bash on Fighters, where's their non-combat niche?
-Kurocyn
You want to have some fun with a Soulknife try adding a few levels of Rogue, so you can use his enchanted mindblade with the rogues sneak attack
I agree with KM.Some martial adept levels wouldn't hurt and your soulknife levels would up your initiator lvl.
I would never bash on a fighter, I actually am a staunch defender of the class. But soulknives are ONLY useful in combat, like fighters, and a fighter has better base attack bonus and better hit points. Sure they get abilities to their weapon, but by the time it's anything significant the fighter could just buy a weapon of almost equal power. I'm not knocking the soulknife either, really, I would just like it if they were a little better at the ONLY thing that they can contribute to a party...combat. Does anyone here really think it would be overpowered to give a soulknife a fighter's base attack bonus?
I don't know how you'll fix it, but it needs to be done. The most mocked character I have ever seen was a soulknife who threw his blade at people. At 13th level he did 1d8+1d6+2 points of damage and got 2 attacks per round.
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I've played a soulknife once or twice, and think that it wouldn't be a bad idea to group them with fighters for BAB. I view them in the same niche as paladins and rangers, both of which have a fighter's BAB. Otherwise, I feel they are balanced, between skill selection and the fact that they gain an ability at every level (and fairly potent abilities).
Another idea is to eliminate the "wild talent" feat and allow any bonus psionic/fighter feat they qualify for ... I think that having the ability to create a mind blade is enough "psionic gift" that it seems redundant to give them that feat specifically.
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I would never bash on a fighter, I actually am a staunch defender of the class. But soulknives are ONLY useful in combat, like fighters, and a fighter has better base attack bonus and better hit points. Sure they get abilities to their weapon, but by the time it's anything significant the fighter could just buy a weapon of almost equal power. I'm not knocking the soulknife either, really, I would just like it if they were a little better at the ONLY thing that they can contribute to a party...combat. Does anyone here really think it would be overpowered to give a soulknife a fighter's base attack bonus?
No.
And this is a pretty standard "fix" applied to the soulknife.
I'm not much for psionics, but I do really like the soulknife class. As written though, they kind of get the shaft. Really cool concept though.
Oops, I don't know where I got the idea that fighters get better hit points than a soulknife....for some reason I had it stuck in my head that soulknives get D8s. I guess I'll just apply the fighter's base attack bonus to a soulknife and see how that does for "fixing" it. I wish there was some kind of "Improved Psychic Strike" feat for soulknives like there is an "Improved Skirmish" for Scouts....I think I'll make one!
...a fighter has... ...better hit points. Sure they get abilities to their weapon, but by the time it's anything significant the fighter could just buy a weapon of almost equal power.
Actually, they have the same hit die. D10. (PHB pg.38 and EPH pg.27)
And I think I'm the only one who realizes how great a boon it is to NOT have to buy your fancy weapons at higher levels... That's alot of coin you're going to save there...
As for the BAB change, I wouldn't do it. But that's just me apparantly, as I see the class fine as is.
-Kurocyn
Heh, I caught that hit point mistake right before you did, Kurocyn. Don't know what I was thinking there, honestly.
I do think I will try the fighter's base attack bonus for a soulknife, though, if only on a trial basis. If it proves to be overpowered or someone comes up with a horribly broken combination, I can always change it back. In a world with clerics, druids, Book of Nine Swords classes, and duskblades, I really can't see it being that gamebreaking. And if some player were to get too cocky, there's always the Tarrasque! >:)
Does anyone here really think it would be overpowered to give a soulknife a fighter's base attack bonus?
I think that would be fine.
...there's always the Tarrasque! >:)
Simply beautiful. (^.^)b *thumbs up to overkill*
-Kurocyn
And I think I'm the only one who realizes how great a boon it is to NOT have to buy your fancy weapons at higher levels... That's alot of coin you're going to save there...
That's funny, I buy fancy weapons because I want to and because I've got nothing else to waste my money on, not because I have to.
Of course, I've never had a soulknife make it to high levels so maybe there is some benefit to having a lot of money but nowhere to spend it but I just haven't seen it yet.
The Soulknife really isn't all that bad as written...
It is sort of the "thinking man's" Fighter - no pun intended.
With a handful of feats from the Complete Psionic, they can even be quite good. And they beg for the Vow of Poverty feat. ;-P
But giving them full BAB shouldn't send them overboard if you feel they are weak as is.
With a handful of feats from the Complete Psionic, they can even be quite good. And they beg for the Vow of Poverty feat. ;-P
I've heard of this feat, and it does sound like a tempting combo. And true there sure are some good psionic feats to amp them up. I still prefer a psionic warrior.
Also, in a low magic campaign they'd be awesome.
And I think I'm the only one who realizes how great a boon it is to NOT have to buy your fancy weapons at higher levels... That's alot of coin you're going to save there...
As for the BAB change, I wouldn't do it. But that's just me apparantly, as I see the class fine as is.
-Kurocyn
For me, I don't necessarily think they are weak and agree that saving money on weapons is a big deal. I just have a problem with the class being kind of a one-trick pony. Having 4 skill points with Hide and Move Silent cna help them diversify into being a sneak as well, but my biggest dislike is that it's just very tightly focused, probably more than any other class (at least with fighters being focused on combat, having the variety of feat options can add variety to the class).
So I can go either way on the BAB, since I don't think either really is broken. However, I really like the option of adding the mind blade to another class to get some nice variety of play choices. But I agree, the class on it's own isn't broken.
I love soulknives. Let's just get tha tout of the way.
The 3.5 soulknife is goddamn abysmal. it is worthless. It can't do anything. It's a skill class with 4+ skills and no emphasis on intelligence, like a monk who's just worst. It's a class oriented on fighting and it doesn't have full BAB. It's special class ability is literally buyable, except they get their magic item at higher levels then most characters would buy theirs, so they're still behind.
There is no reason to ever be a soulknife - and again, I love the class. I love the fluff and the feel. It pains me, seriously. But it's a terrible, terrible class. It can't hit, can't do damage, can't use it's skills, can't do much of anything outside of combat, and can't take a punch. it has no purpose.
I love soulknives. Let's just get tha tout of the way.
The 3.5 soulknife is goddamn abysmal. it is worthless. It can't do anything. It's a skill class with 4+ skills and no emphasis on intelligence, like a monk who's just worst. It's a class oriented on fighting and it doesn't have full BAB. It's special class ability is literally buyable, except they get their magic item at higher levels then most characters would buy theirs, so they're still behind.
There is no reason to ever be a soulknife - and again, I love the class. I love the fluff and the feel. It pains me, seriously. But it's a terrible, terrible class. It can't hit, can't do damage, can't use it's skills, can't do much of anything outside of combat, and can't take a punch. it has no purpose.
I'm in the same boat. My gaming group went nuts when we found the class, because the first thing we imagined was "Whoa! That is TOTALLY Psylocke from the X-Men!" And Psylocke is a badass, so we thought it would translate well. Nope.
We house-ruled that they just get Fighter BAB flat out. We saw absolutely no reason why they shouldn't, and honestly after seeing several of them in-game, the class was still pretty weak, even with the full BAB.
Even Magic of Incarnum tried to help, with the Psycarnum Blade feat, but even this fell flat face-first as it does not add anything to your Mindblade directly, it replaces another enchantment slot... I thought that was kind of a dick move. For taking the feat, it should've added directly to the Mindblade's power, IMO.
http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/soulknife
;)
Or if you want a Pathfinder version, Dreamscarred's Psionics Unleashed should be coming out soon :D