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Spoilered for lengthy explanation...
I should probably start with laying it out... due to a misreading of PF#1, I had Shalelu go back to Fort Rannick to rejoin the Black Arrows (I don't know where I got that, but whatever!), so I've removed the whole Jakandros storyline with her.
In the first encounter of PF#3, the PCs instead rescued Shalelu, who had escaped from the Grauls' barn (with a beartrap on her leg, no less!) and they rescued her from Rukus (our scout was quite... thorough about making sure the ogrekin was dead). After a night resting in Turtleback Ferry (and the aid of a midwife to make sure she hadn't been 'hurt'), Shalelu was able to tell them what she knew about the Grauls- that there were still a few Black Arrows left captive in the barn.
So my players rampaged up there, broke into the barn (I had the lower-level Grauls still in the house, but they killed Crowfood) and killed Biggun (the spider), then freed Jakardros, Vale, and Kaven, fleeing to a safe distance before blasting the house with a channeled pyroburst then a fireball for good measure (I decided this just killed some of the Graul boys, who Mammy will turn into her zombies for later).
I was planning on having Vale Temros, the big Shoanti ranger/fighter, be attracted to our Shoanti wizard (who has been cast out from her tribe for practicing arcane magic), despite his obvious abuse at the hands of Mammy Graul (all of the prisoners had mental scars and fingernail scratches, eew.). And here's the question:
What kind of courtship (or "I like you, come sleep with me?") traditions would Shoanti have? Do they give gifts, carve wood (does he carve her a miniature castle, given his interests?), or just be blunt? Our wizardess, Cada, is from the Shriikirri-Quah clan, and I didn't really have any idea what kinds of things a girl from a Shoanti tribe, perhaps longing for home, would find traditional and appropriate, as well as touching.
Dear Timid in Turtleback,
Go out on a hunt and bring home enough meat to feed her entire family. Make a gift of this meat. Your message will be clear.
Mitnal the Advice Columnist
The hunter in my group makes a habit of leaving heads on the doorstep of his beloved.
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...I took out the Jakardos storyline...
Depending on your timeline, is it possible that she travelled there just before the attack, and they missed each other, while he was on patrol? He may be on the list of the Black Arrows, but under his surname, so she may not be aware of his prescence, and no-one would have known of her relationship, and thus thought to mention him.
If so, he could be held in another location, especially if the ogres think he has important info (as an officer).
The whole storyline is far too good to pass up, especially if he decides to make up for lost time, and be over-protective of her. Having her followed around by a human who looks old enough to be her grandad could raise eyebrows, among the Sandpoint citizens. And it sets up two NPCs for a potentially tragic plotline, should one of them die, so soon after being reunited....
What about this:
They will state their intent to marry the person, and if the don't agree, they fight over it. Nothing lethal or anything, just a wrestling match or something like that.
I like the head idea, but something closer to the heart would probably better. The heart itself, maybe?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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While i like the cougar idea, this is a bit dangerous for a lone level 1 commoner (and that will be the most common kind of groom-to-be).
I'd suggest some kind of announcement of intent to marry her (upfront and bold, what i think fits best with a proud barbarian culture), followed by completing a set of trials as set by the bride to be.
While i like the cougar idea, this is a bit dangerous for a lone level 1 commoner (and that will be the most common kind of groom-to-be).
Of course. Love is not a harmless thing.
Plus, they're called that if they ever want a divorce, they have to kill another cougar. Bare handed (and without magic). Fev ever do.
The hunter in my group makes a habit of leaving heads on the doorstep of his beloved.
Yeah, and that's worked out SOOOO well for him too. (read the journal)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I typed up a lengthy post with a lot of math showing that even if the commoner took a bow, and the corresponding proficiency, and had generously favorable circumstances, he only had a 1 in 1000 chance of actually killing that cougar before being minced - but the board ate it, so you'll have to take my word for it now.
I know, its an artifact of the general "fails at life" phenomenom of NPC classes, and commoners in particular, but since these are the rules the world works by, my guess you probably should put up somewhat more achievable obstacles.
I typed up a lengthy post with a lot of math showing that even if the commoner took a bow, and the corresponding proficiency, and had generously favorable circumstances, he only had a 1 in 1000 chance of actually killing that cougar before being minced - but the board ate it, so you'll have to take my word for it now.
I know, its an artifact of the general "fails at life" phenomenom of NPC classes, and commoners in particular, but since these are the rules the world works by, my guess you probably should put up somewhat more achievable obstacles.
I would argue that there's no such thing as a "traditional" Shoanti with levels in commoner. Traditional Shoanti are mostly Barbarians, probably some Rangers, Rogues and Fighters mixed in too. Nothing worse than a Warrior, at any rate.
And who says that 1st level folks would be the most likely suitors? Traditional Shoanti probably aren't considered consenting adults until 2nd or 3rd level (it's a rough world out there! Ogers and Hellknights and Giants, oh my!)
Guys who live in a town and work a civilized town job don't count.
A Shoanti townie is likely to end up using the courtship customs prevalent in the town, as they may end up marrying a non-Shoanti from the town.
If they're courting another town-dwelling "tame" Shoanti, then maybe there will be some Shoanti "flavor", but it's unlikely they will follow all the rituals and what-not.
But if a townie Shoanti wants to court a more "traditional" Shoanti, they're just gonna have to MAN UP and jump that cougar!
Dear Timid in Turtleback,
Go out on a hunt and bring home enough meat to feed her entire family. Make a gift of this meat. Your message will be clear.
Mitnal the Advice Columnist
LOL. Say it with meat.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I would argue that there's no such thing as a "traditional" Shoanti with levels in commoner. Traditional Shoanti are mostly Barbarians, probably some Rangers, Rogues and Fighters mixed in too. Nothing worse than a Warrior, at any rate.
And who says that 1st level folks would be the most likely suitors? Traditional Shoanti probably aren't considered consenting adults until 2nd or 3rd level (it's a rough world out there! Ogers and Hellknights and Giants, oh my!)
Well, mostly stupid old me looking at the DMG and seeing that most if not almost all people in the world (including professional soldiers!) posesses an NPC class, and likely is of a level of 1-3. Look at the suggested population counts!
PC classes are for heroes and villains. The average joe can be very glad if he can label himself expert or aristocrat - but most will be commoners, from the desert nomad to the barmaid.
Well, mostly stupid old me looking at the DMG and seeing that most if not almost all people in the world (including professional soldiers!) posesses an NPC class, and likely is of a level of 1-3. Look at the suggested population counts!
PC classes are for heroes and villains. The average joe can be very glad if he can label himself expert or aristocrat - but most will be commoners, from the desert nomad to the barmaid.
I always figured that the stuff in the DMG would only apply to a farming society with towns and cities. I don't think a society of hunter-gatherers made up off all comoners makes much sense.
Quite of few of the NPCs in Pathfinder have more thant 3 levels or multiple PC classes. The brewery is run by a Paladin! So I kind of figured that Paizo wasn't really holding themselves to the limits in the DMG. Not that I've compared the statistics or anything.
I suppose from a balance point-of-view, assuming that every back-woods dwelling Shoanti has at least one PC level is a bit silly. But a "fierce muscular tribesman (level 1 comoner)" is kind of silly too. Either way, it's not likely to come up in play. I'm not going to stat out all the Shoanti in the world in my campaign.
I don't have anything useful on marriage traditions for Shoanti. I'm stuck thinking of the old Dustin Hoffman movie where he played a guy adopted by Native Americans.
Dustin's rival: I have a wife and four horses!
Dustin: I have a horse and four wives.
Rival: Yaarrrg!
The extra wives were all his original wife's widowed sisters. But he was expected to "keep them all happy", which he found tough to do by the time he got to wife #4. Poor Dustin.
Dustin's rival: I have a wife and four horses!
Dustin: I have a horse and four wives.
Rival: Yaarrrg!The extra wives were all his original wife's widowed sisters. But he was expected to "keep them all happy", which he found tough to do by the time he got to wife #4. Poor Dustin.
Dustin's Rival: A winner is you!
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LOL. Say it with meat.Dear Timid in Turtleback,
Go out on a hunt and bring home enough meat to feed her entire family. Make a gift of this meat. Your message will be clear.
Mitnal the Advice Columnist
French movie--Son of a Shark--about two reeeeeally messed up kids; one of them likes this girl, so they rip off the butcher shop, and he shows up at her door with a 30 lb. ham and sausages; she answers the door and he proffers it to her saying, "Joyeux Noel!!!" (I bet I spelt it wong)...
French movie--Son of a Shark--about two reeeeeally messed up kids; one of them likes this girl, so they rip off the butcher shop, and he shows up at her door with a 30 lb. ham and sausages; she answers the door and he proffers it to her saying, "Joyeux Noel!!!" (I bet I spelt it wong)...LOL. Say it with meat.Dear Timid in Turtleback,
Go out on a hunt and bring home enough meat to feed her entire family. Make a gift of this meat. Your message will be clear.
Mitnal the Advice Columnist
I love films with that feel. Ever see the Scottish film That Sinking Feeling?
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Spoilered for lengthy explanation...
** spoiler omitted **What kind of courtship (or "I like you, come sleep with me?") traditions would Shoanti have? Do they give gifts, carve wood (does he carve her a miniature castle, given his interests?), or just be blunt? Our wizardess, Cada, is from the Shriikirri-Quah clan, and I didn't really have any idea what kinds of things a girl from a Shoanti tribe, perhaps longing for home, would find traditional and appropriate, as well as touching.
They club the pretty girl and drags her to their tent? Kidding.
Given the nature the situation, I'd say a pelt of an exotic/beautiful animal would make a good gift I think.
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I love films with that feel. Ever see the Scottish film That Sinking Feeling?French movie--Son of a Shark--about two reeeeeally messed up kids; one of them likes this girl, so they rip off the butcher shop, and he shows up at her door with a 30 lb. ham and sausages; she answers the door and he proffers it to her saying, "Joyeux Noel!!!" (I bet I spelt it wong)...LOL. Say it with meat.Dear Timid in Turtleback,
Go out on a hunt and bring home enough meat to feed her entire family. Make a gift of this meat. Your message will be clear.
Mitnal the Advice Columnist
Naah, but I'll check it out.
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In many cultures, it would be considered rude to approach the woman directly and you should go through her family to initiate a courtship. Since she has been booted from her tribe for praticing arcane magic, maybe he could approach the highest ranking (level) male PC in the party to ask permission to woo her.
THEN bring on the fresh kill.
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I typed up a lengthy post with a lot of math showing that even if the commoner took a bow, and the corresponding proficiency, and had generously favorable circumstances, he only had a 1 in 1000 chance of actually killing that cougar before being minced - but the board ate it, so you'll have to take my word for it now.
I know, its an artifact of the general "fails at life" phenomenom of NPC classes, and commoners in particular, but since these are the rules the world works by, my guess you probably should put up somewhat more achievable obstacles.
Actually, in many of the real-world cultures where something like this occurs, you have to get friends to help - which is, from a sociological perspective, the point. In band-level cultures, a wedding that doesn't have the support of most of the band is a threat to the group as whole - requiring a prospective groom to do something that he can only manage with the help of others assures that there is enough support in the group as a whole to make certain that the wedding is socially acceptable.
Characters cool enough to manage it on their own would be sociological aberrations. They'd probably gain status from their capabilities, though, be seen as an asset to the group's survival, and it would work out in the end.
I also think that the group's hunters/raiders are very likely to be warriors, whereas the leadership would be warrior/aristocrats, the spiritual advisor would be an expert or adept, and the rest of the band would be experts or commoners - not necessarily *most* of them, however. D&D's demographics are heavily slanted toward the urban.
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Some cultures put more value at daring than brawn - think of the Native American "tapping sticks", where a warrior could gain great honour by sneaking up on an enemy, tapping him and then escaping rather than just killing him. A bride-to-be might appreciate a display of cleverness and skill more than a head on a pike.
Other ideas could be flowers picked from an inaccessible location, the tailfeather of a beautiful bird (leaving the bird alive, if disgruntled) or a strange rock from the bottom of the sea.
Coup sticks and counting coup...interesting. :)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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In Jean Auel's Valley of Horses, the groom-to-be had to make a boat. Of course, it took a lot of hands but the groom-to-be had to persuade the men to help and was razzed the entire time.
Shoanti wouldn't value a boat so much ... what is something big that the Shoanti would value?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Totem pole, complete with impressive carvings?
Coup sticks and counting coup...interesting. :)That's what I was thinking about. "Tapping stick"... sheesh.
Each tribe has it's own totem so that could be interesting. Let's see, each 'totem' pole must acknowledge all the other tribes' totems but their own totem is on top of the pole. Maybe, totem poles are generally carried and fixed at the highest point in that tribe's territory...
Now, imagine how this would play out if the tribe was an adventuring party and they were in the city.. :-)
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Of course, the arrangement of the other totem holds significant meaning as well.
"Why is my clan's totem on the bottom?"
"Well, someone has to be... Hey, put the axe away!"
Giving someone a well-carved totem pole would be a great honour, but a skilled craftsman could sneak in subversive details. Thus, making a satirical pole is a great way to embarass your rivals, as they cannot really refuse to accept such a fine gift. Perhaps the bride-to-be would be impressed by a PC crafting a pole that portrays her totem in a flattering light while making another appear foolish - and then giving it to the ridiculed party?
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I'd suggest starting it off with something based on her tribe's totem; perhaps, since she's an arcanist, a carved staff of solid wood, or (all things considered with their location and current foes) bone from some Really Big Critter, decorated with a hawk motif and perhaps hawk feathers. Does she have a familiar yet? If not, he might manage to find a hawk egg or a newly fledged hawk and bring it, alive, to her - which, in turn, could become her familiar if she wanted, or she might be able to get a ranger/druid/whatever to tame and train it for her as a companion/pet thing.
It'd be kind of cool, and make for a great mental image, if he did both - carved a staff with the head depicting a hawk in some way, the whole thing engraved with totemic imagery and a handful of hawk feathers, while a live hawk sits on her shoulder.
The whole "say it with meat" idea went down a treat... while she and the other PCs were off killing the Grauls, he (still wounded and mentally scarred) went out and hunted her up a deer, and skinned and dressed it for her. She was really impressed, and cooked it up traditionally for him, then... they're now a couple.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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The whole "say it with meat" idea went down a treat... while she and the other PCs were off killing the Grauls, he (still wounded and mentally scarred) went out and hunted her up a deer, and skinned and dressed it for her. She was really impressed, and cooked it up traditionally for him, then... they're now a couple.
That's how my wife got me. Minus the killing Graul's and hunting deer bit.