Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, and it is really wicked and twisted. It contain things that even a non Christian could feel incomfortable using them in a game session. I don't have anything against the guy but if you see their work it is mostly about dark things as evil extraplanar creatures, dark lore and occultism, horrible and bloody rituals, and so on. Have you used this book? How did you use it? Is the guy obsessed with this themes?
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No, Monte Cook is not obsessed with evil, death, and necrophilia. The Book of Vile Darkness is one of a set of two. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with the Book of Exalted Deeds. These two books are meant for mature campaigns, or at least campagns in which the PCs are not just amoral ale-swilling tomb robbers.
In short, Vile Darkness and Exalted Deeds are meant to provide added depth to a game, especially in the area of creating truly evil villains and deep storylines.
These supplements are 100% optional, and require a certain amount of maturity and seriousness on the part of not only the DM, but the players. If the core rules are 'Army of Darkness', 'Star Wars', or 'The Princess Bride', then the BoVD/BoED rules are '300', 'Sin City', or 'Death Proof'. Not yer average D&D.
Hope that clears things up.
Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, and it is really wicked and twisted. It contain things that even a non Christian could feel incomfortable using them in a game session. I don't have anything against the guy but if you see their work it is mostly about dark things as evil extraplanar creatures, dark lore and occultism, horrible and bloody rituals, and so on. Have you used this book? How did you use it? Is the guy obsessed with this themes?
I would completely agree that Monte Cook is not obsessed with this subject matter, unlike say......... Nicholas Logue!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pathfinder/runelords/wrestlingWithLogi cInHookMountainSpoilers&page=2
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pathfinder/runelords/doesRotRLFeelMore AndMoreLikeTorturePornToAnyoneElse
I mean he even got a posting titled "Torture Porn" because of one of the modules he wrote.
Of course if you want to further push the demented, go and get a copy of the Book of Erotic Fantasy.
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Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, and it is really wicked and twisted. It contain things that even a non Christian could feel incomfortable using them in a game session. I don't have anything against the guy but if you see their work it is mostly about dark things as evil extraplanar creatures, dark lore and occultism, horrible and bloody rituals, and so on. Have you used this book? How did you use it? Is the guy obsessed with this themes?I would completely agree that Monte Cook is not obsessed with this subject matter, unlike say......... Nicholas Logue!
Linkified.
Of course if you want to further push the demented, go and get a copy of the Book of Erotic Fantasy.
NnNNNGhhhhHHHH....
I'd be pretty disappointed if I bought a "Book of Vile Darkness" and it wasn't full of bloody rituals, evil outsiders and other depravity. But that's just me. The prestige classes have been fairly useful, particularly the Thralls of Graz'zt, Demogorgon and Orcus and the Disciple of Asmodeus and if you didn't want to buy the Fiendish Codeces (Codexes?), it has at least an idea of who's doing what in the Nine Hells and the Abyss.
Codeces (Codexes?)
Codices.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, and it is really wicked and twisted. It contain things that even a non Christian could feel incomfortable using them in a game session. I don't have anything against the guy but if you see their work it is mostly about dark things as evil extraplanar creatures, dark lore and occultism, horrible and bloody rituals, and so on. Have you used this book? How did you use it? Is the guy obsessed with this themes?
Monte Cook is a genius. His bad guys are extra bad, his good guys are extra good. I think that he is the guy you want to write this book if you are concerned about its content. And of course wizards had him write it for a reason.
Imagine (sorry, buds!) Nic Logue or Tim Hitchcock writing the BoVD. None of its readers would be able to sleep at night. If some of the famous names around the game wrote that book, some players and GMs might never approach it just in case.
Now, Monte does a fine job with the evil content. I am not saying it is watered down and should be more extreme. I am saying you got balanced content from a balanced mind. Read the introduction to 'Hook Mountain Massacre' and you'll likely be grateful for the author you got.
Now, having said all of that, I am a Christian (in the "I'm a Christian" sense, not the "all politicians are Christians" sense). And I am very accepting of such content. I know it's fictional, my players and friends know I don't smoke crack and worship the devil, and I generally only explore such content for its emotional effects, or for creating a genuine dislike for my villains.
Being a Christian that doesn't add such content to DnD means (only to me: you decide what's unclean for yourself) being a Christian that doesn't watch movies with violence or profanity or brief nudity or even agnostic ideas. In the end, we're part of the world, and have no hope of completely distancing ourself from it. The impact we have on that world is decided sometimes by what we do and whom we do it with, not always by what we don't do, and who we choose to avoid.
This isn't a sermon, I have deep feelings about this stuff and thought it was germaine. Also, I am clearly not a perfected being, so I am not claiming I might not go to far or enjoy humor I later realize I should have passed on. I am just one dude telling the OP what he thinks.
I'll add this: Dark Speech should be better, or at least a gateway to something better.
Creative Director
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Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdfI liked it enough to actually *pay* for my copy.
I guess you can't complain about not getting your money's worth...
Yeah... The irony of someone complaining about questionable content and admitting they stole the book in the first place was not lost on me. :-|
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Oh, yeah. I can't believe I skipped over this: I own the book and I like it, I just wish it were on par with the BED.
But the key comment above is I own the book. I don't think anyone, ever, ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS, ought to be owning pirated copies of anything. Borrow the book if you want to check it out before you buy it. Buy the book and burn it if you don't like it. Etc.
Never borrow a pirated copy of anything. I don't even pretend my friends own books that they have pirated. They say 'I have a copy of such-and-such', and I say 'No, you don't'. Sometimes I say "You know, stealing is wrong."
Go get rid of your pirated copy and spend money on the people who got paid to bring you the ideas and art. And don't lend legitimacy to people who pirate stuff:
"Want to borrow my BoVD so you can see if you want to buy it?"
No. I want you to remember I couldn't look you in the eye when I found out you stole information in an industry where the writers don't get paid enough, and the company brought out a controversial new edition to try to stop the bleeding.
If DnD ever dies, the pirates are the first people under the bus.
I realize this is off topic, but I feel Monte has been defended well enough, in general I agree with the majority of postings, Monte rocks and is not obsessed.
That said I'm curious about how those against the idea of downloaded books download movies, music, cartoons or other media? or use sites like alluc? and bittorents? what makes the downloading of one form of media ok and another taboo. Admitedly any book I've ever downloaded I now own, for the express reason that I want to support this industry in any way I can and will go out a buy a book I've read cover to cover to do my part. I also completely understand the argument against piracy because it is theft, but as I look at the songs on my Ipod I realize I'm not really in a moral position to judge. also admitedlly those who do not download any form of media are. Guess this is just a "let he without sin cast the first stone moment."
But back on topic, Monte writes amazing things and is one of the best in the business! (Whoo go Ptolus!)
PS: I own neither PDF or hardcopy of Ptolus, I just look at it dreamily in my game store. Stupid $125 price tag.
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I understand the idea of "sinless casting the first stone," but--pirating something, then TALKING SMACK ABOUT THE AUTHOR--it's unbelievable. It's ludicrous.
It's like saying, "Man...that sucked. I want my FREE back."
Ramen bothers!
Also I love/have Ptolus and all the Arcana Evolved (and Unearthed stuff) that came from Monte and Malhavoc. Monte is a diverse writer and writes all sorts of stuff, which is all cool.
Personally I don't use the BoVD 'evil stuff' but I think it's an awesome read. I have thrown in some Logue-lite aspects to show how evil that monster/bad guy is.
[Start another thread about the morals/issues of downloading let's not jack this thread... The issue brings up too many emotions and egos and opinions to really have any rational discussion really. It's right up there with religion and politics.]
Well yeah, that is rather insane. and like I said, I'm neither defending the OP or piracy in general, the only reason I didn't go into a tirade of either short/concise or long winded varieties is because Monte has been excellently defended. The man rocks and ranks in among my 3 favorite material writers (James Jacobs and Erik Mona being the other two, though Nic Logue is quickly rising in the ranks.)
It was more a "this is odd" moment to me then anything.
I think this is a new record for burning through rational discussion on a topic.
So; here’s a link about Euell Gibbons.
Frickin' GrapeNuts. Shudder.
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I actually thought the BoVD was pretty decent. The prestige classes were mostly useful and suitably gross, and it contains a lot of useful spells that scared the crap out of my players. It's a good (ha ha) investment.
To get beyond the piracy complaint for a second - I'm curious to hear what the OP actually expected from a book not only titled "Vile Darkness" but also carrying a "Mature Content" label? He obtains said book and then whines about it containing "wicked and twisted" material? What else would there be in such a book??!! Relly, come on!
Which brings up a second, tangential point - why is the BED also labeled "Mature Content"? That I just don't get.
Okay, two unrelated poitns, so two unrelated posts.
BoVD doesn;t do much for me. I think vile damage and Lichloved is about all I've ever used. that's because it just isn;t dark enough. I can think of a race of evil humans on my own. I need rules for things beyond the horizen of accepted society for it to really do me much good.
In fact, I need a book with rules for slavery, torture, physcial abuse, blood sacrifices, and gods of rape (like in Thieves world). And no one will write it for me to buy.'
'At least BoVD isn't a big joke like Nymphomancy.
Bad gusy to bad things, and I want rules for the worst of it.
Point Two
I don't download anything illegally. Not books, not movies, not music. No torrents, rpping or ptping for anything that isn't legally available in that format. period.
copywrite means the right to decide who can make copies and in what circumsatnces. Ignore that right and the laws that go with them isn't piracy (which require the original owner lose the material_). It is, however, a violation like voyarism -- getting something YOU want with no regard for the rights of the person who didn't want you to have it under those circumstances.
Trust me, that's serious., it's wrong, and it's evil.
BoVD doesn;t do much for me. I think vile damage and Lichloved is about all I've ever used. that's because it just isn;t dark enough.
I have to agree. I love Monte and everything, and it probably says something pretty disturbing about me, but the BoVD seems to me more like the "Book of Moderate Naughtiness."
Oh, the wickedness of body piercings! <yawn>
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Point Two
I don't download anything illegally. Not books, not movies, not music. No torrents, rpping or ptping for anything that isn't legally available in that format. period.....
Same here, and I find someone who engages in such dispicable acts to be a disgusting person. A person who brags about doing it while complaining about the material is even worse. I don't care if they do eventually get around to buying the book, it is still a slimey, vile act.
I hope Paizo turns the offender's info over to the proper authorities.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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BoVD doesn;t do much for me. I think vile damage and Lichloved is about all I've ever used. that's because it just isn;t dark enough.I have to agree. I love Monte and everything, and it probably says something pretty disturbing about me, but the BoVD seems to me more like the "Book of Moderate Naughtiness."
Oh, the wickedness of body piercings! <yawn>
Nah. Review the book quickly: rules for sacrifices, torture, drugs, possession, distilling pain into a potion.
You have to grant that that book is the most vile content published by WotC. It has disturbing, frontier-evil spells and mechanics. It has prestige classes that are beyond the pale of previously published villainous content. It is not diet evil.
It might be caffeine-free evil. From those ideas, and the grotesqueries of the demon and devil lords described therein, you might have to spring-board into newer, lower content if you really want those details in your campaign. But perhaps no one else has published content in so dark a corner, either. The evil is not supercharged, it is just available for you to decide how far to take things.
I play in an evil game (where, sadly, none of the other characters are as amibitious as mine) and the game has content that goes beyond published stuff much of the time. Two of the people in our party make a regular habit of killing and eating sentient beings. There are dark gods, the subversion and coercion of good people, and murder for fun and profit. We have a moving storyline, so there's a dramatic purpose for most of those developments. But sometimes the point of a scene is just to experience the horrors that we can visit on each other as villainous types.
One of our party - perhpas our strongest in character roleplayer - killed a whore with a bar of soap because she didn't meet his refined standards. He took his next guest with the whore's corpse under the bed.
Usually, though, we allude very clearly to acts, and let the scene go. Like using shadows in a movie, we get a lot of mileage off the discomfort of an illusion, but aren't interested in describing extended torture scenes, brutal vampire sex or the joyous communion my character takes under the blessings of Doresain.
The game is fun and awesome. And it is dark - there's no question. But we don't need mechanics to explore those themes. We need a few carefully placed words and the cooperation of the other players. I don't begrudge anyone their brand of fun, but I feel that DnD is at it's best as a heroic game, and when playing evil characters, some of that is lost. You have to be careful what you fill that emotional space with. My character is insidiously evil, but he is in the end an architect and a man of grateful religious fervor. There's more value to exploring his business development (and sewing the seeds of anarchy in TOWN) than seeing how sick and twisted I can be. I'm a gritty DM, and beyond that a lecherous and selfish dude at heart. I know how sick and twisted I can be without a little self-control. I would rather build something over the course of the game, and explore the darker corners the campaign provides in small breaks throughout the game.
As a vampire player, I focused more on politics than on feeding, I guess is the way to say it.
But my point is just that we don't need rules for being nauseatingly evil. The common acts committed by villains that there aren't rules for are provided in the BoVD, and while I might buy a supplement that takes another step down that dark road, I will always try to remember that the drama and action of the game is the point, not the strength of the envelop I am pushing.
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Point Two
I don't download anything illegally. Not books, not movies, not music. No torrents, rpping or ptping for anything that isn't legally available in that format. period.....
Same here, and I find someone who engages in such dispicable acts to be a disgusting person. A person who brags about doing it while complaining about the material is even worse. I don't care if they do eventually get around to buying the book, it is still a slimey, vile act.
I hope Paizo turns the offender's info over to the proper authorities.
I'm in 100% agreement. I'd say more but both Dungeon Grrrl and Fake Healers comments pretty much covers it.
Thoth
Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, and it is really wicked and twisted. It contain things that even a non Christian could feel incomfortable using them in a game session. I don't have anything against the guy but if you see their work it is mostly about dark things as evil extraplanar creatures, dark lore and occultism, horrible and bloody rituals, and so on. Have you used this book? How did you use it? Is the guy obsessed with this themes?
FYI, if you want to what a RPG book is like, just ask for a review on these boards. Or look at the reviews on the site. Or hell, just go to your local gaming store/bookstore and page through a copy. Don't download an illegal copy. Monte Cook is a genius and even if you don't agree with his product you should have enough respect for him not to 'steal' money from him (even if it's not actually stealing money, it's the thought that counts).
And again, what exactly did you expect from a book called 'The Book of Vile Darkness? The title is pretty self explanatory."...things that even a non-Christian would feel uncomfortable using them in a game session."? Don't bring religion into this. We don't need another thread debating who has the better god or whether or not D&D or elements of D&D agree with a person's religion.
Even if I don't agree with you, I respect your opinion of the book (sans downloading) and I want to make it clear that I mean no offense by this, just so we can be clear before things get ugly.
If you want truly vile content, there is a web supplement to BoVD that deals with a group of concerned citizens crucifying a potential copyright violator, throwing rocks at him, tearing his corpse asunder, and then dividing it amongst starving orphans.
What's really funny is that if you check out the OP's profile, he claims his alignment is legal good!
Which brings up a second, tangential point - why is the BED also labeled "Mature Content"? That I just don't get.
From the introduction, written by the book's principal author, James Wyatt:
"Like the Book of Vile Darkness, the Book of Exalted Deeds is intended for mature players. That's not because it's filled with lurid descriptions of depravity and torture. The material isn't meant to shock or offend (though some topics may). Rather, this book deals with tough questions of ethics and morality in a serious manner. It's intended to help players and Dungeon Masters wrestle with hard in-game issues. Is it okay to slaughter every drow I see and sell their goods on the open market? How to I wrest information from enemy prisoners without compromising my alignment? Is there any hope for the orc whelps in the stronghold, or should we slaughter them, too? ... For groups that want to address these issues, however, the Book of Exalted Deeds opens the way ..."
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D&D is about exploring society, culture, and morals IMO.
The BoVD is an exploration into the darker realms of those things. Our current society tries to repress the dark side of human behavior. Everyone is trying to BE NICE all the time. It is not honest - there is a dark side to our humaness and when it is ignored it the pressure builds and it shows up in other ways. Explore the dark side where it is safe in a game. Destroy the evil in the D&D world.
My other addition to the conversation is: Like our dear Nick - writers receive an assignment. Hey Monte, come here - what do you think about writing a book to explore the darkest side (that we can get away with our rules about content) of D&D and the evil our heroes must overcome? Monte - that sounds interesting, what do you have in mind?
Last note - I do not even have pirated music on my ipod. Please, let's pay those creative people who provide us with our music, books, and gaming materials. Thank you...
Regarding the BoVD, it shows a strong reality in DnD. What do evil people do? How do you come close to playing a demon who was so vile in life that his soul is confined to the Abyss? Mature games quite often are also very realistic. For many who have played for years the idea of kill creature, take and sell treasure is played out. One needs to overcome greater challenges. The threat of ending up on a sacrificial alter adds an element of dread.
For many tension and terror are all part of the excitement. In Dragon #288 Jesse Decker speaks about instilling dread in a campaign.
I have a friend who suggested I play World of Warcraft. I have not done so yet because video games do not hold the same risk as DnD. Die and return to the cemetary or last save point. I suppose instead of having an adrenaline addiction, I have a risk addiction for DnD. Thanks, Monte Cook!
In fact, I need a book with rules for slavery, torture, physcial abuse, blood sacrifices, and gods of rape (like in Thieves world). And no one will write it for me to buy.'
Slavery, no (although enchanting a masterwork slave collar {treat as manacles} and control device with dominate person is easy enough; add a shield other effect to shunt damage from the owner to the slave for something really nasty). Torture, yes (Pain as Power pg. 33, Torture Devices pg. 37). Physical abuse, sort of (torture and some of the spells). Sacrifices, yes (Sacrifice pg. 26, Souls as Power pg. 33). Gods of rape, sort of (Karaan pg. 11).
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I think what irks me most about the BoVD is the "comic book evil" feel of it. Its really never concerned with "real evil", but only with caricature evil that is "safe" by virtue of being so far from reality that you can get your kick from it without ever really touching your comfort zones.
I think Stalin once said "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic". The BoVD does everything to fall solidly into the statistic camp. Not that i don't understand the motivations behind this design choice, a book that really dealt with destroyed lives, survivors wishing they were dead and victims-come-villains probably would not generate many sales. Its a pretty depressing topic, to be honest, and even the oh-so-dark WoD products of White Wolf rarely touch such issues with a 10' pole.
World destroying demon lords demanding oceans of sacrificial blood just are safer, in a way.
Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, ...You think Monte is evil?!? You stole copyrighted material and then bragged about it. Seriously, dude, pay for it or delete it.
Oh man, don't punish me, my mother would "kill me" if she knows I bought it. ;) and I am 31.
Oh, yeah. I can't believe I skipped over this: I own the book and I like it, I just wish it were on par with the BED.
But the key comment above is I own the book. I don't think anyone, ever, ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANS, ought to be owning pirated copies of anything. Borrow the book if you want to check it out before you buy it. Buy the book and burn it if you don't like it. Etc.
Never borrow a pirated copy of anything. I don't even pretend my friends own books that they have pirated. They say 'I have a copy of such-and-such', and I say 'No, you don't'. Sometimes I say "You know, stealing is wrong."
Go get rid of your pirated copy and spend money on the people who got paid to bring you the ideas and art. And don't lend legitimacy to people who pirate stuff:
"Want to borrow my BoVD so you can see if you want to buy it?"
No. I want you to remember I couldn't look you in the eye when I found out you stole information in an industry where the writers don't get paid enough, and the company brought out a controversial new edition to try to stop the bleeding.
If DnD ever dies, the pirates are the first people under the bus.
You are really tough with someone you don't know his condition. If I want to lend a book to watch its content I would have to fly to 1000 miles away my contry and with luck I would find someone with the Player's Handbook. I don't live in New York and in my country any many young people still don't know what is a wargame , less a RPG with luck someone knows what is the Monopoly so don't judge before know the whole truth about something.
Point Two
I don't download anything illegally. Not books, not movies, not music. No torrents, rpping or ptping for anything that isn't legally available in that format. period.....
Same here, and I find someone who engages in such dispicable acts to be a disgusting person. A person who brags about doing it while complaining about the material is even worse. I don't care if they do eventually get around to buying the book, it is still a slimey, vile act.
I hope Paizo turns the offender's info over to the proper authorities.
I officially change this thread's name to:
LET'S BASH THE POOR GUY WHO MADE THE SIN OF GETTING A PIRATY COPY BEFORE PURCHASING TO SEE WHAT THE CONTROVERSIAL CONTENT WAS AND DID NOT BUY BEFORE AND LATER DELETE IT
Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, and it is really wicked and twisted. It contain things that even a non Christian could feel incomfortable using them in a game session. I don't have anything against the guy but if you see their work it is mostly about dark things as evil extraplanar creatures, dark lore and occultism, horrible and bloody rituals, and so on. Have you used this book? How did you use it? Is the guy obsessed with this themes?
Huh? What you say? Unconfortable? Nah! It just was proper evil, not the wishy-washy "I steal candy, I'm MEAN" evil. He was asked to do a book on evil, and he did. The Abyss of Human Nature goes way deeper than that. ;-P
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I officially change this thread's name to:
LET'S BASH THE POOR GUY WHO MADE THE SIN OF GETTING A PIRATY COPY BEFORE PURCHASING TO SEE WHAT THE CONTROVERSIAL CONTENT WAS AND DID NOT BUY BEFORE AND LATER DELETE IT
It's just that we care about this industry and the people who make an honest living through it...
Oh man, don't punish me, my mother would "kill me" if she knows I bought it. ;) and I am 31.Well, I accept it, I got a pirate copy of a RPG pdf it was the Book of Vile Darkness by Monte Cook. I got it only for curiosity about the content, ...You think Monte is evil?!? You stole copyrighted material and then bragged about it. Seriously, dude, pay for it or delete it.
I keep my copy (along with the Book of Erotic Fantasy) in a very secure place, away from my children's (and wife's) prying eyes...
Imagine (sorry, buds!) Nic Logue or Tim Hitchcock writing the BoVD. None of its readers would be able to sleep at night. If some of the famous names around the game wrote that book, some players and GMs might never approach it just in case.
I just had an evilgasm!
I think we have to convince Paizo to do a book about Absolute Evil in golarion, and Nic must write it!
I can think of at least 6 people who would buy it AT ONCE, read it from cover to cover, and then do a proper Evil campaign!
I am leaving this thread before you crucify me. I want to state I think the greatest aport Monte did to the industry is D&D 3rd edition. I have some of his books and I think they are great I don't have any bad thought about Mr. Cook I only asked for some opinions that is all.
BoVD doesn;t do much for me. I think vile damage and Lichloved is about all I've ever used. that's because it just isn;t dark enough. I can think of a race of evil humans on my own. I need rules for things beyond the horizen of accepted society for it to really do me much good.In fact, I need a book with rules for slavery, torture, physcial abuse, blood sacrifices, and gods of rape (like in Thieves world). And no one will write it for me to buy.'
I think I'm in love! ;-)
Anyway, I liked the BoVD. I loved the torture implement shopping list. How I loved to mention all the stuff my Blackguard had and was intending to use (mainly because the DM would quickly handwave it, and just give me every information I asked for at the mere mention of the stuff: "So, now I tied him down, I'm first going to use this ****, see, you put it in..." "STOP! HE TELLS YOU EVERYTHING! THE MAYOR'S A CLOST DEMON CULTIST, THEIR TEMPLE IS UNDER THAT TAVERN!" "Okay... I'm still gonna torture him, just for kicks! See, this thing is.." "ENOUGH!" Ah, good times, good times. ;-))
'At least BoVD isn't a big joke like Nymphomancy.
Do you mean Nymphology? Or the BOEF?
I am leaving this thread before you crucify me.
No worries. Standard procedure is 1d3 days horrible torture followed by Pyre Party. ;-P
I keep my copy (along with the Book of Erotic Fantasy) in a very secure place, away from my children's (and wife's) prying eyes...
...under a big pile of Penthouses and Hustlers. :D
In fact, I need a book with rules for slavery, torture, physcial abuse, blood sacrifices, and gods of rape (like in Thieves world). And no one will write it for me to buy.'
MATURE CONTENT AHEAD.
I see some promotions coming up. It's not a whole book, but let's see whether I can expand a couple of portfolios to include those themes:
Slavery: Asmodeus already has that one.
Torture: Zon-Kuthon, no question. He's about pain, and he's lawful, so he should feel right at home in torture chambers anywhere. I bet there are a number of ritual observances, some small prayers to be said before you commence. "Oh Painbringer, I devote the anguish I am about to inflict to thee so that your might glory might increase and you bless this procedure with duration and give me the skill to guide the Implements to thy greater glory (Hail be the Painbringer)". The "passive" participants have their own, time-honoured prayers they usually utter in the circumstances. The words aren't written down. They needn't be - the subjects always remember them on their own...
Physical abuse: Again, Zon-Kuthon. I bet his priests have a commandment to beat their wives, kids, and pets - I bet they need to have some pet just so they can inflict pain to it.
Blood Sacrifices: I'd say all the evil deities (and even some of the morally neutral ones) do that, all in their way: Calistria likes to have those her devotees took revenge on sacrificed in her name, as payment to her divine guidance. Asmodeus does it to show how he can lord over everyone, and that life and death are in his hand. Zon-Kuthon: Blood sacrifices are painful, yes? Urgathoa: Bleed them dry and then raise them as zombies. Norgorber: Ritual sacrifice and the selling of blood for profit go hand in hand. Lamashtu: Of course. Instead of a dagger, some nasty critter is used to get the blood out of the victim. And Rovagug probably has his clerics tear the poor bastards to pieces.
Rape: Asmodeus is a good candidate. Rape could be considered a form of tyranny, a very strong form of suppression.
I am leaving this thread before you crucify me. I want to state I think the greatest aport Monte did to the industry is D&D 3rd edition. I have some of his books and I think they are great I don't have any bad thought about Mr. Cook I only asked for some opinions that is all.
Man, almost no one here has crucified you or any such thing. As you said you asked for opinions from people and they were given, it just happens that the overwhelming opinion disagrees with yours. Everyone has been pretty civil about it. Even the more vehement comments of piracy were directed at me because I opened up the discussion after a few fairly lighthearted jabs.