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Some quick things that come to mind...
Paizo listens to their customers and negative feedback, Wizards sees it as bad PR and shuts it down, censors it, and deletes it.
Wizards doesn't take any chances because they're too worried about their bottomline. The bean counters of Hasbro expect them to turn a profit on everything.
Oh, and 4th edition.
Now here is a leading question. :)
Short answer: Dialogue. Similar to SirUrza's post above...with Paizo all of the staff from Lisa on down take a personal hand in talking with the people, mainly through the forums. They listen to what we want or our gripes and then act on them.
WotC doesn't/can't do that. I know several of the WotC staff do hang out on their forums, but they don't seem to have that same connection with the fans that Paizo engenders. I can only speculate on the reasons why WotC doesn't take more of an active hand (I suspect I know, but I'm not 100% positive).
One is a very large company (the industry leader), and one is a medium-sized company that has worked in partnership with the large company. Paizo has more personal connections with its customers via its message boards, which is related to it not being a division of a much larger company.
Interaction with the community. Not only do they post on the forums, but they are also kind enough to stop by for an informal Pathfinder/Paizo chat on Tuesdays.
Paizo is by gamers for gamers. Wizards is under the thumb of a huge company that doesn't care about gaming or gamers.
Why exactly (apart from Paizo having possession of Lisa Stevens) do people think that WotC/Hasbro do things one way, whilst Paizo are apparently doing them in a completely different fashion?
We put our sensory organs to their intended use. :P
I see how wizards handles things, I see how Paizo handles things. I see the difference. Paizo comes over as a warmer, more friendly company (except when they're snowed in and eat one of their own, and even then they let us decide who they should eat!). They don't "fight dirty".
Whoops. Double post.
I see how wizards handles things, I see how Paizo handles things. I see the difference. Paizo comes over as a warmer, more friendly company (except when they're snowed in and eat one of their own, and even then they let us decide who they should eat!).
Funny, I was thinking that same thread, about which Paizo employee should be eaten, when I read the first post of this thread...
Paizo has done an admirable job in community building, like any sensible small company should do. WotC is "The Man" and this is "The Kids vs. The Man".
Mostly size. Paizo is small enough that they can actually respond in a human way to most queries (even when the answer is “no”). One thing to keep in mind when bashing WoTC, is that Lisa had a huge hand in making it what it is today .
Mostly size. Paizo is small enough that they can actually respond in a human way to most queries (even when the answer is “no”). One thing to keep in mind when bashing WoTC, is that Lisa had a huge hand in making it what it is today .
And now she's gone, and look what happened ;-)
Talent.
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I suspect that what is going on at WizCo is much more than we perceive. Their attitude and arrogance that drives us crazy probably stems from a deeper source.
Monte Cook described the "arrogance and contempt" he experienced in the industry during the 90s as really being "disenchantment and fatigue."
THAT is what I think WizCo is suffering. They went from a small gaming company of gamers to the industry leader owned by a cold hearted corporation. I have worked for larger companies and disenchantment and fatigue is a great description of what I and most other employees experienced.
Compare the differences between Paizo and WizCo/HASBRO.
Paizo is a small company of gamers producing products that excites them. Their staff is able to frequent the message boards and listen to comments and suggestions from their customers and small enough to adapt to what they learn and keep their line profitable.
WizCo/HASBRO is a large company with two faces. WizCo is very likely staffed with a lot of gamers eager to be a part of producing the best products of the industry. HASBRO is a large corporation interested only in the profitability of their lines. WizCo as part of HASBRO must listen to HASBRO's market research and not direct feedback from their customers. WizCo/HASBRO is too large to to adapt at a moments notice when customers complain, and thus it can take years to effect change.
Between these two environments it is no wonder that we perceive Paizo as a more responsive more caring company and WizCo as an arrogant self righteous monolith.
In all honesty I believe HASBRO was one of the best and worst things to ever happen to D&D. Best because it brought in a great influx of money to rebuild the industry when it was beginning to die. Worst because once entrenched, the corporate mind set stifles creativity in an industry that thrives on creativity.
So, I honestly don't think it is as simple as they are good and they are bad. Truly I think that 4E will die due to the perceived arrogance of WizCo and this doomed Digital Initiative (I don't think the initiative in and of itself is bad, but I think it will be poorly executed). The salvation of D&D will be the resale of the line. My hope is that Paizo will be in a position to purchase the line and bring back the passion that is needed. My fear is that Paizo will get the D&D line and become a large corporation and loose that freedom that we love.
WotC can't talk to me with authority. because it is publically held, controlled by a larger overcorporation, and too big for any one person to know everything that is going on, Wizards can't, ever, speak to me, or any gamer or group of gamers, with an assurance that this is actually how it is going to be.
Paizo can, and does.
Because WotC can't, they tend to simply pull back from regular contact with the unwashed cyber-hoards. When they try to speak to us, it comes off as disconnected, arrogant, and often just wrong.
To exist, paizo must have my love, and the lvoe of all its customers. because they are good at getting it, they prosper.
To exist, WotC must heartlessly manipulate the bottom line, go with marketing speak, and obey orders from their corporate masters. obviously, they think they;re good at getting it. I think they've begun to mistep, but are so huge they don't know it yet.
I do not blame WotC for this, but nor do I forgive them. This is the direction they, as a business, have gone. If I don't like it, and often I don't, I shall spend my consumer dollar elsewhere.
Mostly, with paizo.
One is forced to wonder what would happen if Paizo would get hold of D&D...because whoever holds it is the big cheese in the RPG industry, it's like this strange powerful artifact which corrupts its owners :)
It does change the scope of the company so eventually Paizo would probably also turn into a soulless conglomerate and DIY punks like me would go flock on some other company's messageboard mocking Paizo.
You have been warned.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I suspect that what is going on at WizCo is much more than we perceive. Their attitude and arrogance that drives us crazy probably stems from a deeper source.
I suspect that WoTC suffers from a case of lawyers. Their inability to communicate in an honest and forthright manner to gamers makes me suspect that their communication is answering to a more cautious set of rules than gamer communities would normally operate by.
This is not intended to be an attack against WoTC or lawyers.
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I suspect that WoTC suffers from a case of lawyers. Their inability to communicate in an honest and forthright manner to gamers makes me suspect that their communication is answering to a more cautious set of rules than gamer communities would normally operate by.
This is not intended to be an attack against WoTC or lawyers.
There's often a reason lawyers respond in cautious manner: malpractice. You'd be surprised how we (I'm including myself despite having 1 semester left in law school and the bar exam to take) can get sued for giving FREE advice based on a person's VAGUE statement of FACTS...
Honestly though, I think its most likely that one of the above posters is correct. The company is too big and has too many projects for any one person to efficiently represent the entire company on forum threads. It kind of undermines your credibility to state "X" when next week "Bob" confirms "Y." They should still try however, but to expect them to act in the same manner as the wonderful Paizo people is a little unfair to them.
As for the other differences between Paizo and WOTC, it's the personal appearances in forums by major players (James Jacobs responded to my first Paizo Post!), quick responses to (my) customer service questions/requests, and excellent products (great ideas, great execution, no grammar errors I could find with a randomly thrown dart). In short, they work real hard and it shows. I just haven't been as impressed byt WOTC products overall, with some exceptions...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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There's often a reason lawyers respond in cautious manner: malpractice. You'd be surprised how we (I'm including myself despite having 1 semester left in law school and the bar exam to take) can get sued for giving FREE advice based on a person's VAGUE statement of FACTS...
I'm sure there are reasons and I'm not dissing lawyers. Each community has their own 'discourse styles'. WoTC's does not seem to be one that appeals to the gamer community and, yet, gamers work there. I can only surmise that there is another discourse style being imposed on them... some kind of professional/institutional discourse style. I'm thinking lawyers. What do you think?
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I'm sure there are reasons and I'm not dissing lawyers. Each community has their own 'discourse styles'. WoTC's does not seem to be one that appeals to the gamer community and, yet, gamers work there. I can only surmise that there is another discourse style being imposed on them... some kind of professional/institutional discourse style. I'm thinking lawyers. What do you think?
I'm thinking corporate PR controls.
Lawyers would be more concerned with their clients getting sued for slander/libel than puffery ("its the best car in the country" not something you can sue over). Even statements like "its going to work much better than what you're playing now" while loaded, are not something that can be sued over. However, they can and have created a PR mire.
Corporate on the other hand may or may not want their employees contradicting itself, releasing previews before the official announcement, etc. Its more about the controlled release of information. Even our beloved Paizo has at one point or another told us (politely) when information we wanted would not be avaialble at this time. I wish I could remember the thread where one of the higherups stated something like "neither Paizo nor it's employees can discuss..."
Tactics v strategy provides an imperfect analogy. Both are neccessary for the success of the company, but they're not the same beast.