Making Batman

[brent norton]

I am thinking of doing a Batman rip-off for the the next pathfinder. If you could build him how would it be done?

[James Keegan]

Simplest way: monk/rogue. Urban ranger from the SRD and Unearthed Arcana could also be a useful consideration.

[Sean Robson]

James Keegan wrote:

Simplest way: monk/rogue. Urban ranger from the SRD and Unearthed Arcana could also be a useful consideration.

I agree. Also, the Master Inquisitive prestige class from the Eberron campaign setting book might be appropriate.

[brent norton]

What about Ninja instead of Rogue or Monk? Do I start with monk or rogue? Thanks for the help.

[James Keegan]

brent norton wrote:

What about Ninja instead of Rogue or Monk? Do I start with monk or rogue? Thanks for the help.

In general, I would suggest starting with rogue levels if you're going to take them in order to maximize the ridiculous skill point gain, which is what Batman was really all about. There's some overlap between monk and rogue skills (hide, move silently, tumble, etc), so allocate a bit more focus toward the skills that won't enjoy the extra monk levels.

I'm not a fan of the ninja class, myself. I'm not sure how well it works with the theme: ninjas in Complete Adventurer are kind of rogue/monk hybrids with a lot of mysticism thrown in. Batman has his roots in the pulps of the '20s and '30s where he's really just an amazing human rather than a superhero, which is why I would stick with something more grounded like the rogue. Tinker around with it, though.

[FabesMinis]

Factotum class from Dungeonscape? Could represent the Bat's propensity to know something about everything.

Or as one character says in Kingdom Come: "When does the Batman NOT have a plan?"

[Noir le Lotus]

Monk/Rogue would perfectly fit, with some levels of the Vigilante PrC !!

[brent norton]

Does any know which Dungeon mag. has their version?

[F33b]

James Keegan wrote:

Simplest way: monk/rogue. Urban ranger from the SRD and Unearthed Arcana could also be a useful consideration.

Maybe psi-war/rogue for flair and an UMD-based utility belt?

[Shem]

brent norton wrote:

What about Ninja instead of Rogue or Monk? Do I start with monk or rogue? Thanks for the help.

If you went ninja then you would have to go with pigtails. Not sure you want to do that...

[KaeYoss]

Rogue and Ninja could both work.

[Whopper]

Problems with Batman...

Different writers have presented him in different ways. Another problem is that many of Batman's capabilities are done with technology that doesn't exist in Golarion. Batman in Golarion would either have to have magic to compensate (e.g. a darkvision spell vs. having night vision goggles built into his mask). Another, Batman, if he were a character class, IMHO would have several skills per level, near 18 or more in every ability, a monk's fighting skills, and a high fortitude, reflex, and will save, and code similar to that of a Paladin. No one character class fills all of these.

He'd have to be in a character class all his own that would only be balanced by the fact that he could spend all his available time to his one specialized goal--to fight evil and injustice.

So here's my thoughts on Batman's stats.

Strength: 17 (yes Batman did occasionally encounter nonsuperhumans stronger than himself, though he is very very strong)
Dexterity: 19 (this guy is dextrous. He could do complex acrobatics while also faking important documents).
Intelligence: 20 (Obvious, he's one of the most skilled and brilliant men ever.)
Wisdom 16 (yes he's got a strong mind, but hey, he wears a Batman outfit, has issues, and has allowed his desire to fight evil and injustice take him a bit to the edge).
Constitution: 16 (Hardy and in shape, but not the most hardy person ever).
Charisma 18 (Remember, Bruce Wayne was charismatic, and Batman always had strong presence and intimidation).

Such a character, all things being equal, could only exist on die rolls that are next to impossible to attain or a very lenient DM allowing for this.

What character classes? Again, there is no one class, so I will have to try to use the existing classes, and then there's the problem of whether or not he'd use technology or magic.

If one allows magic to replace Batman's gizmos: monk (at least 2 levels--enough for him to get evasion, but too many in this one area will limit his skills), Ninja, (no rogue, Batman does use poison), wizard (or alchemist) and Arcane Trickster. Yes I know, Arcane Trickster requires someone not be lawful, and a monk has to be lawful, again this is the best I can come up with given what we got. If you really want to push this rule, you can say he was lawful good, but then became neutral good.

This Arcane Trickster would have to have a create wondrous item feat and make several items to enhance his already high abilities.

A problem with the above aside from the obvious is Batman does specialize in several things and such a mix of so many classes hurts his ability to do that.

And yes, I understand and even believe that Batman, at heart, if in the world of Golarion, personality-wise most follows an Inquisitor committed towards justice, and if Bruce Wayne actually existed and saw his parents killed, I don't think he'd take up the Batman guise because the profession of adventuring is pretty open in Golarion, but in the comic book world that's the only way he could take his fight directly against evil.

If no magic, I'd say monk/ninja/assassin, but he'd have to have access, through his wealth, to several magic items that'd have to be the equivalent of technology he uses in the DCU found in Golarion. Another problem is Batman would not kill someone just for the sake of killing them, and that is a requiement to be an assassin. He's good. Yes, brutal, wearing black, and scary, but he's good.

Another problem here is that Batman pretty much always fights humans in the DCU. His favored enemy in such would have to be humans. In Golarion, while humans usually make a great favored enemy because many encounters are with such, the enemiese can highly vary per species.

He'd also have to have at least some of the following: knowledge: nobility (to fit in with the upper class), knowledge in several areas (e.g. history, religion), a high stealth, disable device, intimidate, acrobatics, bluff, sense motive, capability of moving around incredbly well on the battlefield, and a huge amount of wealth.

[The Shogun of Harlem]

Whopper wrote:

Strength: 17 (yes Batman did occasionally encounter nonsuperhumans stronger than himself, though he is very very strong)

Dexterity: 19 (this guy is dextrous. He could do complex acrobatics while also faking important documents).
Intelligence: 20 (Obvious, he's one of the most skilled and brilliant men ever.)
Wisdom 16 (yes he's got a strong mind, but hey, he wears a Batman outfit, has issues, and has allowed his desire to fight evil and injustice take him a bit to the edge).
Constitution: 16 (Hardy and in shape, but not the most hardy person ever).
Charisma 18 (Remember, Bruce Wayne was charismatic, and Batman always had strong presence and intimidation).

I would knock two off of all these and flip flop charisma and intelligence (after all someone with a 16 intellegence is way smarter then the average bear), and I would use a ninja/paladin build going into a shadowbane stalker type of thing. Sneak attack and smite with a good charisma score for ki pool and paladin stuff. It seems like a winner for me. You do have to embrace the shadowbane stalker, it allows for some wiggle room with the LG alingment.

Are there better ways to build it, probably. This way just seems to have grabbed my attention. In my group one of my players is going to start a Pathfinder/Birthright game and I might give this a try as my pc, we'll see what happens.

SGH

[Beckett]

J/K Cleric/Monk of Chuck Norris with the Badass (Darkness) and Fear the Bat (Animal) SubDomains, and a Trait that lets him alternate his Alignment as needed without any penulties. :)

[Beckett]

Whopper wrote:

Charisma 18 (Remember, Bruce Wayne was charismatic, and Batman always had strong presence and intimidation).

Not really, he is a comic character which gives him a +20 Sacred bonus to all Cha based checks, and a quadrillionair that gives him another +30 untyped bonus to the same. He normally actually has a -2 Cha. . .J/K

[Liz Courts]

Moved thread.

[Beckett]

Liz Courts wrote:

Moved thread.

No o o o o o . . . . .!!!!!!

[Lincoln Hills]

As Whopper pointed out, there have been many different Batmen depending on A) who was writing the book, B) when it was being written, and C) whether he's appearing in his own book or a crossover. When he's in his own book he tends to be a martial artist/stealth commando, whereas when he's teaming up with virtually anybody superhuman it's his intelligence and obsessive preparedness that become his defining characteristics.

So, uh, there are several feasible builds. Heck, even his alignment (no, especially his alignment) has been argued to death for years. Personally I'd probably start out with an Urban Ranger and make use of the unarmed combat 'school' feats that I'm told appear in Ultimate Combat, but there are many valid options. Is this an NPC you're creating (who'd be whatever level you need him to be), or a PC you want to resemble the Bat (so we'd be starting by looking at how to do Batman at 1st level)?

[lordzack]

Batman's character class is Batman. He is at least a 12th level Batman.

[Gorbacz]

12th level Chaotic Neutral Batman.

My work here is done, enjoy the show. :)

[Kthulhu]

The most important feature of Batman as a character is that he violate the GM, making him Batman's b!%&*. That's really the only explanation for the levels of duex ex machina that exist for Batman.

[Lincoln Hills]

Now, building a PF version of Nick Fury, there's a challenge!

[Kthulhu]

Lincoln Hills wrote:

Now, building a PF version of Nick Fury, there's a challenge!

616 or Ultimate?

[Pendagast]

Ironically, I think batman could be done well with a gunslinger/alchemist, who has a code against using guns (although for the purpose of playing the game you can still be batman like without the obtaining from guns).

The extra Pdf stuff made for alchemists has some stuff where you can trade out extracts or discoveries or mutagens for tinker like gadgets and make your own custom gear.

and the gunslinger grit point system seems to fit batman quit well because there are times when he kicks everyone butt (including superman o.0) and then there are times he just sucks (ran out of grit points??)

Skills and gadgets mostly, the hand to hand expertise, Im not sure, I dont own the book but isnt there a way in Ultimate combat to get increased hand to hand without being a monk (other than taking a bunch of fighter type feats)?