I am already thinking about my next campaign after AoW. Playing this I realized even more how much PCs are dependent on their magic gear to really matter. A fighter of mid to high-level has to invest all his gold in his sword and protective gear or he is history, he could never opt to save his gold to build a stronghold or invest in a political career, no one could even save money to buy something more expansive down the line. A rogue does not have the ability to say: I take off my armor and swim to the fortress harbor, where I will dispatch of the guards...if a fight starts, he is dead! Also I had the impression, that all this killed a lot of role playing, I don't know why, maybe I am wrong.
Don't get me wrong I like the aspect of magic items in D&D, but in the end, what does everyone own: magic weapon, armor items, stat buff items. There are many nice and flavourful wondrous items, which are never used, as characters have to concentrate on buying different stuff. Furthermore there is something like Iron Heroes, but I think that is too much of a change to the system.
I was tossing around some thoughts and would be happy about comments, where are the problems, how balanced will it be etc. I know the game will change, but as long as it is still fun...
Here is what I thought of:
-give every character a bonus to AC depending on level and class
-give every PC one point to spend on stats every 2 levels although one single stat can only be raised once every 4 levels
-wealth per level is halved or at least availability of magic is reduced greatly, so that PCs could invest more in other things
-maybe there should be feats, which raise AC+2, Attk+1 or Dmg+2, which also stack and are available for more classes
-give PCs more feats, every 2 levels, but then fighters need an additional bonus
And all this has to be balanced against non-classed enemies and the prospect that everyone will eventually get a magic armor or magic weapon and against the fact, that magic-users might be really overpowered then.
Additional rules I thought about:
- 50% of hit points lost: fatigued until healed or bandaged
- 75% of hit points lost: Exhausted until healed or bandaged (then, depending on hp fatigued or normal)
- unconcious: fatigued until end of day no matter what (maybe restoration helps)
- PCs get 2 skill point extra per level, which they could spend on flavourful skills, craft, profession, perform, knowledge, language as long as it is plausible. They are cc-skills, but can be improved as class skills if they had been used in a flavourful way during the last level, otherwise they are cc and may not be improved at the current level
I have NEVER taken any notice of gp/level.
I cannot stand the concep that everyone of a certain level MUST have such and such - inc enemies.
Thankfully my players do not do the whole buff thing. I do not provide them with easy access to magic, except for potions and scrolls. Even the few wands that have been made rub me the wrong way...still my players are more interested in fun MIs, not buffs.
I am really looking forward to 4e in this regard.
I say what you have done is fine. Go for it. Seriously. I have been DMing for 20 odd years and players love a challenge. This whole 3e thing made MIs bland to me. (As much as I love the game). I remember having huge debates on ENWORLD where a couple of posters couldn;t believe I NEVER checked whether the PCs had the correct wealth. I have also never worried about having a balanced party...and already that has started with 4e and the 4 roles...OF COURSE you can play without one of the roles. We have had many (if not most) parties in my campaigns without a cleric.
There is far too much looking into this. Do what you feel is right for the campaign and players. I understand there needing to be a baseline, but for every campaign to follow it??? How bland.
C
Yah, I don't bother with guidelines like wealth per level. I generally try to make sure that every character has an interesting and useful magic item but rarely find this stuff lying around. And buying magical stuff is hit and miss even in a huge metropolis, except for potions and scrolls.
All starting characters get extra skill points and one extra feat.
I'm looking at limiting HP and giving an AC/defense bonus instead.
You are certainly not the only one, dude, I think there are a bunch of people doing this stuff around here.
Check out the optional rules section of the d20 SRD for a ton of ideas.
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A great deal of the difficulty is the presumption in 3rd Edition that optimal magic items are just always available in sufficiently large cities. (I was just re-reading an old AD&D "High Level Campaigns" book that mocked this idea; even had a pictue of a mage with a shopping cart, looking through different wands. Ah, times change.)
Kill magic stores. You want a +3 flaming longsword, and you've got the gold for it, then go and either find somebody who's willing to sell it, or pry it out of his cold, dead fingers. Or talk to the Thieves' Guild; what could possibly go wrong there?
Double the time it takes the party's casters to create a weapon or armor.
Multiply the cost of permanent enhancement items by the enhancement bonus (so +2 items cost 8K gp, +4 items cost 64 K, and those glorious +6 items cost a whopping 216,000 gp. There's a lot of butt-kicking miscellaneous magical items you can stock up on for 216,000 gp.)
(You know, the "Christmas tree effect" was a lot more pronouced in some AD&D games. When your 16-strength 7th-level fighter is virtually identical to every other 16-strength 7th-level fighter, magic items were really all that distinguished him.)
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A great deal of the difficulty is the presumption in 3rd Edition that optimal magic items are just always available in sufficiently large cities. (I was just re-reading an old AD&D "High Level Campaigns" book that mocked this idea; even had a pictue of a mage with a shopping cart, looking through different wands. Ah, times change.)
Kill magic stores. You want a +3 flaming longsword, and you've got the gold for it, then go and either find somebody who's willing to sell it, or pry it out of his cold, dead fingers. Or talk to the Thieves' Guild; what could possibly go wrong there?
Amen and amen.
I have NEVER taken any notice of gp/level.
I cannot stand the concep that everyone of a certain level MUST have such and such - inc enemies.
Thankfully my players do not do the whole buff thing.
Yeah, I was also not concerned too much, but had always players who complained. But it was a lot better in my first group with all beginners. They were not so greedy. In AoW I have a very experienced player who is very keen on all the magic...he is probably used to the: your Char is either maxed or dead-mentality. But thanks for your comments. So I see I am not alone with my thoughts
The 'christmas-tree' effect is something they're looking to end in 4e.
If that turns out to be a good system then you'll get what you want next year.
I know they say so, but could you believe they would forgo the possibility for selling lots and lots of supplements with new magic items?
Multiply the cost of permanent enhancement items by the enhancement bonus (so +2 items cost 8K gp, +4 items cost 64 K, and those glorious +6 items cost a whopping 216,000 gp. There's a lot of b~!&-kicking miscellaneous magical items you can stock up on for 216,000 gp.)
That's a good idea, so I can keep my +1 stat per 2 lvls, and it will still balance with the magic items...
Check out the optional rules section of the d20 SRD for a ton of ideas.
I already had a look in hope for something useful.
The game is what you make it - I gave my 2nd or 3rd level melee guy a +1 Cutting Ooze Bane Ram Dao. That's way too much for such a low level dude, but come on...he hasn't once run into a tree-monster or ooze.
...yet.
...And behold a green horse, and an army of oozes followed with him.