Are exotic weapons worth it? I've taken them for flavor, but I never can justify the feat loss especially if I'm not a fighter. As DM, I usually rule that if you want to take one just take it no cost, depending on what it is.
Fizz
I guess the spiked chain is worth it, but...it has it's own issues.
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Some are worth it(spiked chain, repeating crossbows, the various double weapons) but others seem to just be on the exotic list because they are oriental (Sai, nunchuka, and kama). Sure they have special properties like disarm bonuses and such, but so do flails and stuff which are Martial.
I think they took a Western approach to defining what constitutes "exotic" weapons and have made some weapons useless for anyone except a very small amount of classes. A fighter can use hammers, rapiers, swords, axes, tridents, ransuers, bows, armor spikes, flails, etc....but can't figure out a kama, siangham, or sai without burning a feat?
Seems silly to me.
My suggestion would be to look at the best martial weapon in a certain category (light, one-handed, etc.) and compare it to exotic weapons and see if they rate equally. A sai allows a bonus to disarm, but a short sword has a better threat range, a handaxe has a higher threat potential and a sap does non-lethal damage. They are all sort of close although maybe the sai does edge out the others a bit with +4 to disarms. A +2 would be equal IMO, but a +4 doesn't really break the game.
Meh, I lost my destination but you sorta get where I was heading.
Hope it helps,
FH
As usual, FH pretty much nailed. Although the repeating crossbow is not really worth it anymore, there's a weapon enchantment from MIC that does basically the same thing.
Although, if you are a Warblade, EWP (Whatever) basically gives you proficiency with all exotic weapons anyway.
It actually probably wouldn't be at all unbalanced to just let Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat just give you proficiency with ALL exotic weapons anyway.
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The fighter in my STAP campaign is using the greatspear (exotic from Complete Warrior) to pretty good effect for far (half way through BWG at 4th level).
Sure it cost a feat, but it's 2-handed and he's done a good job of picking feats. The crit is 20/x3, so once he adds Improved Critical, he'll e alot more dangerous (especially when Power Attacking). The Short Haft feat has also made it a bit more useful.
I guess the trick is picking the right exotic weapon and feats to get the most use out of it.
-Skeld
I think that you nailed it in your question. 'Flavor'.
If your in a different area, then maybe different weapons are exotic. see it from a different perspective. Shurikens are simple, chains are martial, daggers are exotic. What's the use of getting a lame dagger?
See?
Are exotic weapons worth it?
No, not ever.
Except as roleplaying flavor -- and playing a cool, entertaining character is infinitely better than winning die-rolling contests.
There is no such thing as a wasted feat when it makes a character more cool, fun, and/or entertaining.
My two cents :)
Ive seen a very solid breakdown of the "values" of weapons, based on damage, reach, "grip" (light, one-hand, two-hand), bonuses on trip-disarm-etc, and such.
Its pretty solid too. Simple weapons are all very close to each other in "value", martials are also close, and most exotics are as well, with the exception of some lemons like nunchaku and kama.
My interpretation is this: flavor can be acheived by modifiying the starting weapon package. I had a player with a frost sorceror who came from the arctic in one game, where some of the simple weapons (daggers even) made no sense, but because I had access to Frostburn, I could replace them with regionally appropriate weapons. None of this changed the fact that as a mage, he rarely ever used the weapons, but it drastically increased the flavor of the character.
Mechanically, the expenditure of a feat (a resource), should result in a mechanical benefit. End of story. So taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency should result in the ability to use without penalty a weapon or weapons with greater mechanical "value", such as the spiked chain, warmace, or bladed gauntlet.
My two coppers.
Ive seen a very solid breakdown of the "values" of weapons, based on damage, reach, "grip" (light, one-hand, two-hand), bonuses on trip-disarm-etc, and such.
Its pretty solid too. Simple weapons are all very close to each other in "value", martials are also close, and most exotics are as well, with the exception of some lemons like nunchaku and kama.
My interpretation is this: flavor can be acheived by modifiying the starting weapon package. I had a player with a frost sorceror who came from the arctic in one game, where some of the simple weapons (daggers even) made no sense, but because I had access to Frostburn, I could replace them with regionally appropriate weapons. None of this changed the fact that as a mage, he rarely ever used the weapons, but it drastically increased the flavor of the character.
Mechanically, the expenditure of a feat (a resource), should result in a mechanical benefit. End of story. So taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency should result in the ability to use without penalty a weapon or weapons with greater mechanical "value", such as the spiked chain, warmace, or bladed gauntlet.
My two coppers.
My favorite weapon in the game has always been the bastard sword (hand-and-a-half sword) but I never ever understood why it was exotic.
My favorite weapon in the game has always been the bastard sword (hand-and-a-half sword) but I never ever understood why it was exotic.Ive seen a very solid breakdown of the "values" of weapons, based on damage, reach, "grip" (light, one-hand, two-hand), bonuses on trip-disarm-etc, and such.
Its pretty solid too. Simple weapons are all very close to each other in "value", martials are also close, and most exotics are as well, with the exception of some lemons like nunchaku and kama.
My interpretation is this: flavor can be acheived by modifiying the starting weapon package. I had a player with a frost sorceror who came from the arctic in one game, where some of the simple weapons (daggers even) made no sense, but because I had access to Frostburn, I could replace them with regionally appropriate weapons. None of this changed the fact that as a mage, he rarely ever used the weapons, but it drastically increased the flavor of the character.
Mechanically, the expenditure of a feat (a resource), should result in a mechanical benefit. End of story. So taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency should result in the ability to use without penalty a weapon or weapons with greater mechanical "value", such as the spiked chain, warmace, or bladed gauntlet.
My two coppers.
well, some not all weapons are exotic for being, well, exotic. so are just plain hard to use.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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This is one of the major reasons my group uses the 'Weapon Groups' option from Unearthed Arcana. While not a perfect solution, it does make things easier overall.
The way it works is that each class gets a various number of group proficiencies at 1st level. All classes get the 'Basic' group, which includes the dagger, club, and quarterstaff, plus several other Weapon Group Proficiencies based on class. Fighters get 4 additional groups. Barbarians, Paladins, and other full BAB classes get an additional 3 groups. Rogues, Clerics, and Bards get 2 additional groups. Sorcerers get a single extra group (which is limited to spears or crossbows). Wizards are the exception in that they must choose whether they want Basic OR Crossbows, they don't start with both. Elves receive the 'Bows' group for free and may also choose either Heavy Blades or Light Blades for free as a racial bonus.
Groups are defined in the UA book, but one of the groups is 'Exotic' which basically adds the Exotic versions of groups you already have to your proficiency list. For example, a character who takes Heavy Blades AND Exotics can use the bastard sword one-handed. He can also use other exotic heavy blades (such as the mercurial greatsword). If you take Axes AND Exotics, you can use the dwarven waraxe one-handed, etc. etc. You must have a BAB of +1 to start with the Exotic groups by the book, but I've made exceptions in the past for clerics who want to use their deity's favored (exotic) weapon.
Personally, I think it's great, and it makes a lot more sense than the standard proficiencies. I mean, really, why does every ranger strangely know how to use swords, bows, flails, and halberds? Plus, it makes exotic weapons a viable 1st level option without sacrificing a precious feat.
My favorite weapon in the game has always been the bastard sword (hand-and-a-half sword) but I never ever understood why it was exotic.
Bastard sword is only an exotic weapon if you want to use it one handed with a shield. Two handed it's a martial weapon and you get STR bonus x1.5 damage.
And as others have already mentioned, if the feat (or skill or anything else for that matter) adds to the flavour and makes a character cooler or more rounded then it's not wasted.
If you pick a feat just for power gaming or to qualify for a prestige class then fine.
But if you pick it because it fits the character concept then that is even better.
Hmm. Maybe I should change my avatar before Fatespinner accuses me of being a clone!
CLONE! ;)
Not of you anymore I am not :)
My favorite weapon in the game has always been the bastard sword (hand-and-a-half sword) but I never ever understood why it was exotic.Bastard sword is only an exotic weapon if you want to use it one handed with a shield. Two handed it's a martial weapon and you get STR bonus x1.5 damage.
And as others have already mentioned, if the feat (or skill or anything else for that matter) adds to the flavour and makes a character cooler or more rounded then it's not wasted.
If you pick a feat just for power gaming or to qualify for a prestige class then fine.
But if you pick it because it fits the character concept then that is even better.
Hmm. Maybe I should change my avatar before Fatespinner accuses me of being a clone!
I realize that about the Bastard Sword, but for most people 1 extra point of damage(on average) on the bastard sword over the longsword isnt worth a feat.
I think i'll start using the unearthed arcana sets like Fatespinner suggested. thanks for the tip
My group just recently started using the "Groups" from Unearthed Arcanea and I have to say that it is great because it allows for more fun, while not taking away from the game. Balance is still there, but characters are not funneled into the same weapons all the time.
This type of weapon grouping will become a standard in my games. Especially when it applies to other feats like Weapon Focus and Improved Critical. It reallly adds to the fun of finding new items and not having to throw them away because your characters have narrowed themselves down to just one weapon. This type of "narrowing down" was something I really hated about 2nd edition, and I jumped for joy when 3.0 switched to having huge general catagories of weapons you could weild.
The way it works is that each class gets a various number of group proficiencies at 1st level. All classes get the 'Basic' group, which includes the dagger, club, and quarterstaff, plus several other Weapon Group Proficiencies based on class. Fighters get 4 additional groups. Barbarians, Paladins, and other full BAB classes get an additional 3 groups. Rogues, Clerics, and Bards get 2 additional groups. Sorcerers get a single extra group (which is limited to spears or crossbows). Wizards are the exception in that they must choose whether they want Basic OR Crossbows, they don't start with both. Elves receive the 'Bows' group for free and may also choose either Heavy Blades or Light Blades for free as a racial bonus.
What about the monk?
Fizz
What about him? :D
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It's in the SRD here.
This is the first time these rules have been drawn to my attention. They're great! New house rule from now on, I think.
I agree that a feat is never wasted if it helps develop the character. I DM a group that had a tribal barbarian from a region that had no access to forged weaponry. So to him all swords and axes were exotic. So I replaced his weapon set and the character used spears and bolas which for him I considered martial. Those weapons were part of his culture.