I'm going to run the Seed of Sehan for now instead of Savage Tide. Does anyone have any tips for it they wanted to share?
I have to say I quite like the trilogy after reading through it carefully. First of all it is yet another curious locale in Greyhawk that I enjoyed seeing given a history and a present. Second, I like Spriggans and feel they are too seldom used. Third, the idea of a weird plant related plot is unique and interesting. Finally, it fits into my own game rather well as it is. Apart from everything else my pcs were faintly annoyed with me for having a treant they helped give them bark amulets that were +4 to save...versus plant based attacks. It will be kinda fun to let them have the impression (though I won't really lie if they ask me) that I planned it all along! On the other hand Yak Folk and beholderkin are going to be totally new foes to them.
I'm going to run the Seed of Sehan for now instead of Savage Tide. Does anyone have any tips for it they wanted to share?
I have to say I quite like the trilogy after reading through it carefully. First of all it is yet another curious locale in Greyhawk that I enjoyed seeing given a history and a present. Second, I like Spriggans and feel they are too seldom used. Third, the idea of a weird plant related plot is unique and interesting. Finally, it fits into my own game rather well as it is. Apart from everything else my pcs were faintly annoyed with me for having a treant they helped give them bark amulets that were +4 to save...versus plant based attacks. It will be kinda fun to let them have the impression (though I won't really lie if they ask me) that I planned it all along! On the other hand Yak Folk and beholderkin are going to be totally new foes to them.
If you do some searching there's some information on material we submitted for the adventures that got cut from the final versions. It might be worth searching... I know GGG at least posted significant chunks of material (with permission), including some that I believe the paizo folks never saw because it was cut before we even sent it in... his original draft for the dread pagoda was something on the order of 22,000 words, which is a good 7000 words higher than what we submitted.
- Ashavan
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I ran all of the first adventure and just started on the second when my group TPK'd (only one survived). This is a solid trilogy - well written and interesting to run as well as an enjoyable player experience. My players loved it even though they didn't survive long enough to see it all.
I kept a journal here on Paizo. Give it a read if you have the time; it contains both a narrative of events as well as DM Notes that provide insight into the game. A few of the were-cabbages were kind enough to comment as well and their input is of course revealing.
I hope you have a great game!
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...his original draft for the dread pagoda was something on the order of 22,000 words, which is a good 7000 words higher than what we submitted.
- Ashavan
It was only going to be 5,000 words over. Sheesh. ;)
Anyhow here's a link to a link that will take you to the added extras and edits from the Dread Pagoda. But be careful, I have yet to hear of anyone surviving long enough to reach the place.
Bwhahahahaha!
GGG
PS I just added the stats for my original version of the Sehan Abomination! It's much nastier than that old beholder.
No tips to add for the OP, but kudos to the writers of this great trilogy. Wonderful stuff, and the GH bits just added to my enjoyment.
Ok, one tip for you as DM: some of those fights are just nasty deadly. I wouldn't walk in there w/ your standard group of 4 level-appropriate adventurers and expect to come out alive :)
Just sayin'...
Hm...thanks by the way for the links, guys. Reading through someone's journal will be a big help, so will the extra material though..."sniffs" I love my players so, how can I dare to break their hearts? But I'm eager to read the extra stuff!
My party consists of:
1 Psion/Diamond Dragon
1 Cleric
1 Ranger
1 very young Blue Dragon companion
1 lower level ranger cohort
1 lower level bard cohort
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Hey, MrFish!
Here's something which had been cut from the adventure (or was cut by us and not even send in...) Its about Room 4 in the Hideout! Well, actually, if your players visit here, they might read it, but I can also send an eMail to you, with stuff cut out. Just click on my name above - there's my eMail to be found!
One last thing: Make sure that the scale fo the Spriggan Hideout is wrong. It should be 5 feet a square!
- Tom
No tips to add for the OP, but kudos to the writers of this great trilogy. Wonderful stuff, and the GH bits just added to my enjoyment.
Ok, one tip for you as DM: some of those fights are just nasty deadly. I wouldn't walk in there w/ your standard group of 4 level-appropriate adventurers and expect to come out alive :)
Just sayin'...
I would agree, especially in Pagoda which is not a dungeon crawl, but really an infiltration game. The thing about infiltrations is that you have to have a hammer above the character's heads otherwise why infiltrate when you can just walk in and kill everything?
I really dislike standard beat 'em ups at the end of adventures and go out of my way to avoid them. Originally the sehan abomination - nominally the last and toughest major encounter in the pagoda - was not meant to be winnable in the normal way (a party of standard adventurers clobber the hell out of the monster and live to see tomorrow). Instead it is meant to present a situation of true horror - the biggest and baddest manifestation of Sehan yet. There's going to be character death, or the thing is going to get away, kill a bunch of innocents and return even more powerful. I wanted players who encounter the abomination to be thinking outside the box when coming up with plans for beating it (a brief alliance with the yakfolk might be in order, or tricking Xotkil into fighting it, or sending the thing through the portal to the yak city, or the silver room are a couple ideas I just came up with sitting here for disposing of the beast at least temporarily). If the characters are not fighting then they're probably running for their lives like in a horror movie, which is also not a bad ending.
As always though it is the GMs responsibility to moderate the game if the characters get caught off-guard by the encounters in the entry hall
and try to talk their way out of it let one of the jann servants intercede on their behalf - just because they are slaves to the yakfolk does not mean they like them. Likewise Annapuma knows what the characters look like, but might keep it a secret hoping to use the PCs to some end against the other pagoda denizens. The sky's the limit.
GGG
No tips to add for the OP, but kudos to the writers of this great trilogy. Wonderful stuff, and the GH bits just added to my enjoyment.
Ok, one tip for you as DM: some of those fights are just nasty deadly. I wouldn't walk in there w/ your standard group of 4 level-appropriate adventurers and expect to come out alive :)
Just sayin'...
I would agree, especially in Pagoda which is not a dungeon crawl, but really an infiltration game. The thing about infiltrations is that you have to have a hammer above the character's heads otherwise why infiltrate when you can just walk in and kill everything?
Mr Fish, pay attention to this! GGG knows of what he speaks, er, writes :) I'll testify to the futility of busting down doors and asking names later in the Pagoda (shudder). Repeat after me: it's not a dungeon crawl, it's not a dungeon crawl...I knew I was in trouble when I couldn't beat the BBEG, and I was even dual-wielding Stormbringer & Mournblade both!
Ok, I'm kidding about that last part...
My pcs are not great at infiltration unless they have a good plan to start with. Maybe learning a little about Jann and Yak Folk culture will help before they get anywhere near the Pagoda. Part of why I'm so keen on them doing it though is I love the initial setting and the general surroundings, especially after skimming a bit through the removed material on the area. What my pcs do excel at is social setting adventures so I may draw out things in Exag a bit to enable them to gain access to lore and rumors. Once they have filled up on that I think they'll be alright. Any thoughts on that?
Again I must thank everyone for being so helpful, really looking forward to running this.
My pcs are not great at infiltration unless they have a good plan to start with. Maybe learning a little about Jann and Yak Folk culture will help before they get anywhere near the Pagoda. Part of why I'm so keen on them doing it though is I love the initial setting and the general surroundings, especially after skimming a bit through the removed material on the area. What my pcs do excel at is social setting adventures so I may draw out things in Exag a bit to enable them to gain access to lore and rumors. Once they have filled up on that I think they'll be alright. Any thoughts on that?
Again I must thank everyone for being so helpful, really looking forward to running this.
Check out the small servitor village on the link I posted to the pagoda edits. One of the characters in the playtest party almost slept with the village wise woman.... Excerpt from the Body Meld special ability: "To use this ability, the yakfolk must touch the intended target for 20 minutes without interruption." ::Snicker:: Anyhow that and the psychology notes, and perhaps a bit of Taoist philosophy should be enough to see you through. The idea is to make them alien seeming. In Exag there probably aren't many who know about them and those that do (Shen'zen) will probably tell you about the all-wise guru-esque Inscrutable Ones on the mountain to the north.
On that note, if you want to foreshadow the spriggan a bit you might leave some clues about that gang of gnomish outsiders who broght a few ogres in from the Mounds of Dawn to act as leg-breakers. Also though it didn't make the cut if you want tougher fights in smaller scale locals in the hide out. I recommend giving the spriggan the feat Swarm Fighting (useable by Small ceatures to allow more than one to stand in the same 5' square). You can also give them Large and In Charge for when they're Large for battlefield control, but that was the yakfolk schtick in the training room.
GGG
Making out with a Yak Folk is worse than making out with a succubus. The succubus wants to kill you--fair enough. The Yak Folk wants to take your body over. *shudders*
Anyway, the game is on for tonight--wish me luck, first episode here we come!
My players reacted similarly to things that LichLoved's party did. So far they find the setting making them uneasy. The people are odd enough to seem almost alien, though they've made a few friends (mostly among the local expats). I fitted things into my own campaign world rather neatly--mostly just substituting stuff like "Flan" and "Paynim" and so on--I love Greyhawk but my game just isn't set there.
Anyway, their first Child of Sehan encounter nearly went badly--I think they mistook the thing for other woodland or plant like creatures they encountered and thought it was deliberately trying to hynotize them rather than just doing its thing. What horrified them was the realization that the man had been traumatically transformed into something else.
From the start entering the Spriggan tunnel daunted them. The narrowness of a number of passages, the pitch darkness of unlit areas, the ambushes and traps really freaked them out. Bear in mind, this is a tough group but a lot of their advantages (big weapons, ranged weapons, a baby dragon) just didn't work. They were afraid of setting fires because of all the garbage, and the crumbling rock and the crevasse nearly did for two of them. As it was they were glad to have a staff of healing that the cleric had.
I had wanted to have the Spriggans use their swarm attack but that will have to come later--so far they've killed 7 of them in a pitched battle in the dormitory cavern.
They avoided the gnome lab because they were busy chasing down a survivor--Bilgor--and his shouts warned Rakeri off. I decided all the noise and kerfuffle would have Rakeri decide that fleeing was the better part of valour and he would try to get the remaining members of his gang out to fight another day. In pursuit I emphasized how the bullseye lantern the ranger was carrying (with a continual flame in it) was only able to illuminate what it was pointing at. The ranger failed an observation check and fell down into the empty space where the bridge had been. Consequently they spent most of the rest of the adventure getting her out. She woke...barely conscious, several broken bones, lying on cold rock.
I don't know if anyone else used this but I made good use of the shatter spells to ruin pc light sources and darkness following that to blind them. In spite of this the pcs generally prevailed but aren't sure that they did...they have no idea how many Spriggans are still at large.
They were horrified by the gnome lab and by spilled Green Welcome everywhere--they barely got away from the Green Welcome trap, as it were. They also nearly spitted the gnomes--all they knew because of my description was 'more creepy little people' (there are no gnomes or dwarves in the group). However they spared them and heard them out.
Altogether so far they're creeped out, they ended with hurrying up to the surface just to get some fresh air and normal light.
One Question:
While it is true that the Sehan Cult wants to transform people, it seems a lot more voluntary than in the case of the Spriggan gang or the Yak Folk pagoda. I've been thinking about having Kanuut try to seduce the pcs into siding with him instead of destroying the True Source. Does this make sense at all? He might even suggest that those villains who are ill using the Sehan deserve punishment and he will help them. I know the pcs probably should destroy the Source but they might not realize that.
Yeah, I have also been giving a good look at the Seeds of Sehan campaign Arc. My game is currently nowhere near Exag, so thats in the future anyway.
If you can, post a Campaign Journal of it like Lich-Loved did. I think we'd like to see how the game worked out. Even if that isn't possible, at least let us know which of the removed elements you used. I know when I run it, I am going to put all that good stuff back into it.
Thanks again Werecabbages for a great adventure!
One Question:
While it is true that the Sehan Cult wants to transform people, it seems a lot more voluntary than in the case of the Spriggan gang or the Yak Folk pagoda. I've been thinking about having Kanuut try to seduce the pcs into siding with him instead of destroying the True Source. Does this make sense at all? He might even suggest that those villains who are ill using the Sehan deserve punishment and he will help them. I know the pcs probably should destroy the Source but they might not realize that.
In my opinion (one of five) the cult's Sehan concoction (I don't think it is ever given a proper name other than "sehan"; lower case to differentiate it from the "god" though they are actually both the same) is a really watered down version of the toxic stuff that the True Souce is made of. The cult uses it for meditaion and seeing visions (perhaps the thoughts or visions of Sehan itself).
The spriggan are only interested in the addictive properties of the substance and sought to increase them so that they sell a lot of the self-growing stuff. Enter Green Welcome, the highly addictive drug version of sehan a version that the cult is mostly unaware of in the beginning. Most people just die if they take too much of the True Source. Only Kanuut has ever survived. The fact that it turns people into monsters is actually bad side-effect from the business side of the spriggans plans, and something they are trying to eliminate.
The yak folk (as would have been explained in my declined "Ecology of..." article) are interested in the transcendental properties of the substance. They are also interested in discovering more about Sehan. The yak folk truck with aberrations, as well as elementals and spirits. To them aberrations are just elementals from the Far Plane anyhow. So to discover a new one makes them curious.
So in closing, sure, let the Great Bloated One try to talk the PCs over to his side. He might even let them taste a bit of sehan (you know just a taste of the pure stuff not that Green Welcome crap). He might talk to them about the mysteries of the out spheres or talk about his visions. He himself is rather ignorant of most of the things he sees as the mind of Sehan cannot be comprehended by the mortals of this world, but he can discribe things, places, sounds, smells, feelings that might freak the hell out of some people.
The other thing is there is a certain amount of antagonism built in between all three factions. If left to their own devices they will kill each other. The real villain however is Sehan - the genie that's been let out of the bottle.
;)
GGG
PS I just added the stats for my original version of the Sehan Abomination! It's much nastier than that old beholder.
Woo! Awesome.
Any chance that we might get to see "The Inauspicious Shrine"?
It'd be cool to see if anyone makes it to Caer Pahoran this time around ;) Watch out for them slimey things on the road!
So...here's a basis for comparison
1. The alternate version of the Abomination of Sehan is WAY bigger. More hit points, better attacks in general.
2. It is a bit slower and has a lower ac.
3. It is actually immune to electricity. (I'm dubious about this one--it's just by chance but the fact is following write ups it is starting to look as though I'm just putting up obstacles for the little blue dragon. I may keep this as resistance instead)
I have to admit I like this in general...I'm wondering if in fact it is toughed up enough to remove the beholder altogether. In the original adventure that was one of the few things I wasn't entirely thrilled by--the Abomination almost seems anticlimatic after that.
In addition to that if I add the other extra material I might just not want those beholders and kin there--it seems tough enough without them. Thoughts?
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So...here's a basis for comparison
1. The alternate version of the Abomination of Sehan is WAY bigger. More hit points, better attacks in general.
2. It is a bit slower and has a lower ac.
3. It is actually immune to electricity. (I'm dubious about this one--it's just by chance but the fact is following write ups it is starting to look as though I'm just putting up obstacles for the little blue dragon. I may keep this as resistance instead)
I have to admit I like this in general...I'm wondering if in fact it is toughed up enough to remove the beholder altogether.
Xotkil in the original version was actually an old beholder, which limited his combat capability, but gave him more skill points to play with.
XOTKIL, OLD BEHOLDER LIBRARIAN CR 12
LE Large old aberration
Monster Manual 26
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Spot +23, Listen +19
Languages Beholder, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Yak Folk Coded Calligraphy
AC 24, touch 9, flat-footed 22
hp 85 (11 HD)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +12
Spd 5 ft.; fly 20ft. (good)
Melee bite +5 (2d4-2)
Ranged eye rays +7 ranged touch (DC 18)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +8; Grp +10
Special Atk eye rays
Combat Gear iron bands of Bilarro
Abilities Str 7, Dex 11, Con 15, Int 19, Wis 17, Cha 17
SQ all around vision, antimagic cone, flight
Feats AlertnessB, Flyby Attack, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will
Skills Hide +9, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Listen +19, Profession (bookkeeper) +18, Search +22, Spot +23, Survival +3 (+5 following tracks)
Eye Rays (Su) Due to age, Xotkil can only fire two eye rays at targets in any one 90-degree arc (up, forward, backward, left, right, or down) during a single round. The remaining eyes must aim at targets in other arcs.
Possessions specially modified goggles of minute seeing
Cut for space and over-complexity no doubt.
In the original adventure that was one of the few things I wasn't entirely thrilled by--the Abomination almost seems anticlimatic after that.
In my opinion the final Sehan beasty has to be the biggest and baddest thing in the entire arc. It's named Seeds of Sehan after all. That said, you might be able to negotiate with the beholder.
In addition to that if I add the other extra material I might just not want those beholders and kin there--it seems tough enough without them. Thoughts?
You definately could cut them, but you'll want to give some thought to a replacement. It all depends on your party and style of play. Add or cut what you feel is best for your game. The add-ons (and even the main adventure) are just tools to facilitate enjoyment (hopefully). You won't kill my ego by replacing every yak folk in the arc with a drow.
Aside from the scorching ray eye beams (for the ceramic disks) the gauth are primarily there for the weirdness factor and the tactical encounter possibilities in a large-scale, three-story library. Ditto the Catalogue. If you want to replace them with a yak friendly replacement you could use any type of genie, salamanders, mephits, or elementals of some type or perhaps even enslaved giants. Yak folk use giants the way anime characters use power armor. ;)
Overall I went aberration because it struck me as appropriate to the setting and a different set of encounters mix things up with. I like to think of the pagoda yak folk as sorta like the Great Race of Yith from H.P. Lovecraft's Shadow Out of Time, so they hang with a strange crew. These aren't just a bunch of minotaurs skulking about in a cave.
GGG
PS I just added the stats for my original version of the Sehan Abomination! It's much nastier than that old beholder.Woo! Awesome.
Any chance that we might get to see "The Inauspicious Shrine"?
Maybe if you are good for Christmas. ;)
I'm swamped just now and will be for a few months to come. I should be able to format it for before the end of the year but no promises. Spoilers and teases to follow.
GGG
No tips to add for the OP, but kudos to the writers of this great trilogy. Wonderful stuff, and the GH bits just added to my enjoyment.
I forgot to say this last time: Thanks, though I'll admit to being the least Greyhawky guy in the bunch. And ditto to Yasha0006. It was fun writing it and meeting (if in some cases only virtually) Tom, Steve, Stefan, and Ashavan (who made it to the second round of the GameMastery Open Call. Go Ash!)
Matt
We'll see how this Sunday's session goes, I'm really looking forward to it.
Personally I love the Lovecraftian sense of this adventure path--when I read Kanuut's ramblings I thought "holy cow, how Lovecraft is this?" I didn't know for sure till I read the final installment. I would like to thank you, Steve, Tom, Matt, for being so helpful and enriching my and my players' experience so much.
I'm really curious to see how they handle the next adventure--they need to wrap some things up from the first before that obviously but I'm eager to see if they'll try sneaking, infiltrating or what when dealing with the Sehan cult.
BTW...I've decided to change the succubus in the scenario to a "Sehan succubus" who is a sort of modified intelligent Child of Sehan that uses seduction as a means to transfer her poison feat.
Well, here we go. One Dread Pagoda adventure coming up in our marathon event this afternoon. (a rare occasion but the complications of work and kids are totally out of the way and so we can all just relax and enjoy the game)
Well, here we go. One Dread Pagoda adventure coming up in our marathon event this afternoon. (a rare occasion but the complications of work and kids are totally out of the way and so we can all just relax and enjoy the game)
Good luck.
;)
GGG
My players' key to success I believe so far has been them seeing this whole thing as a commando mission. Essentially they did their best to observe, gather intelligence, infiltrate as long as they could with the intention of then striking like cobras.
The initial ambush utterly failed--the pcs in fact (as I believe the adventure intends) learned vital intelligence there. They also did well on checks and on questions to figure out what Yak Folk were and how to deal with them.
I had a roc try to make off with their pack train, and nearly did but for them having said they requested the baby dragon to fly around and scout for them. Basically she managed to cry out a warning just in time.
They had one pc who had a cloak of etherealness carry the bigger harder to conceal weapons and gear while the rest dressed as pilgrims, hiding what they could under travelling robes. They actually went with a small group and the ranger did her best to avoid actual encounters along the way. The dragon had access to a ring of invisibility and avoided being seen until they were actually at the Garden of Stone. While they were there the Yak Folk insisted on meditating and instructing the pilgrims, which partly involved him paternally holding them by the shoulders. He had the Earth Elementals conceal themselves until he needed them. The Psion was nearly melded in a little private session but managed to save. (he had cockily felt he could somehow overpower the Yak Folk personally) The Yak Folk simply beat him unconscious. However this aroused the dragon companion's wrath and she alerted the rest of the group.
Following this a massive fight broke out, but the ranger did utterly amazingly, killing two of the huge elementals by herself. The Yak Folk guard and several pilgrims were also killed. (the pilgrims mostly as collateral damage)