Yeah, you'd have to wait till it was visible to have any chance of hitting, but once hit it would seriously ruin it's day flying-wise! Good thinking!
And thanks Arc. I sometimes wake up afraid the last twelve years were just some dream, 'cuz I didn't think I'd ever get this lucky! :)
@Rags --
Happy (belated) anniversary! 12 years is quite an accomplishment.
Back to tanglefoot bags --
Last time, the quasit did spend a significant amount of time visible (and annoying). The bigger question is -- can anybody throw accurately?
That's cool JSL, Less pressure on me to keep up! :D
Brainstorming Ideas we have so far for taking out the Quasit trash,...
-Salome's awesome spell selection for kicking outsider bootie,
-Nets seem to be a given, both for hanging over doorways with pitons, and for throwing to catch Imp, (Can also be used on the WrathSpawn, making it easier/quicker/safer to take down.)
-everyone should have a potion of CLW on hand in case of emergency,
-Tanglefoot bags are an excellent option for those of us who might not be strong enough, or skilled enough to actually throw a net! (I've tried it in RL, it ain't as easy as it looks!) ;P
-Acid is good for damaging it, but it could also FREE it if we have managed to net or tangle it!
-Slidell will try to find scrolls of Enlarge Person, for greater reach/coverage, to hit or grapple the thing,
-And a scroll of'Animate Rope' (Which always seemed like a throwaway spell to me until now)
-Will also look for a scroll of web, for best effect I could cast it as the imp's trying to fly through a doorway, but I could also try to use it's two wings as the anchor points! Added bonus of not having to aim it!
-Once the thing is Netted/tanglebagged/hit with an Animated Rope/Webbed/Grappled, etc, Slidell hits it with every MM he can cast! auto-hit/dmg every round!
Am I missing anything? Other than SOMEone is going to take a hit for the greater good at least once, because we have to get this thing to attack at least ONCE to drop its invisibility so we can get it!
OK, leaving work now, going back home. See you all in the morning at the latest!
@Rags --
Happy (belated) anniversary! 12 years is quite an accomplishment.
Thank you, I wish I could take the credit for it, but the truth is my wife puts up with a LOT! :)
Back to tanglefoot bags --
Last time, the quasit did spend a significant amount of time visible (and annoying). The bigger question is -- can anybody throw accurately?
I think that Vesh and Mal have high enough Dex's that their aim with missile weapons can be counted as pretty reliable! Sli's is ok, but hopefully he'll be busy makin' with the magic!
Vesh is pretty good with thrown weapons. I'd say either he or Mal.
Rags: congrats on 12 years! Way to go! My wife and I are closing-in on ten. I hope you had a good time on your anniversary.
Lastly, here are some items that Vesh has been able to buy. I don't think I'll write up the whole story IG, but if JSL wants to drop an NPC in the mix for Vesh (ahem), I'll porvide the following info:
1. He goes and buys 20 cold iron arrows from Savah. I think the whole enhancement bonus thing on MWK arrows and bows not stacking is weird. I understand it, but there's really no reason for Vesh to look for MWK. arrows when he already has a masterwork bow. Also, why would a fletcher bother to use a special material, like cold iron, on an arrow and NOT make it a masterwork item? The whole thing smacks of game rules just getting in the way. Rant over.
2. He then goes to Nisk Tander's Bottle shop to buy Sunrods and a flask of Alchemist's Fire.
3. Lastly, he goes to Vinder's General Store (donde esta Shayliss???) to get some sundries (ropes, pitons, and a hammer...see Vesh's character sheet). These are independent of the whole net/piton plan as mentioned before. There are two spots that'll require climbing over rubble, and Vesh will leave the cheaper hemp ropes and pitons, rather than his silk rope and grappling hook.
One side note: I haven't counted up the number of pounds he's carrying, but in general, I've been careful to note when/where he drops his pack. I've been assuming that w/o his pack he's lightly encumbered and that with it, he's is under medium encumbrance.
EDIT: I threw in a little RP opportunity btwn. Vesh and Slidell. I'm not thinking anything extensive, just a chance to get Vesh caught up on the current goings on of the others. He'll then head into Vinder's for his supplies and return to the Rusty Dragon to check up on others.
On the re-supply front, Mal will look for several sturdy nets, a potion of CLW (if available), and a cold iron dagger.
Vesh or Mal should be the one to cast the nets. Both of us should have 2-3 available in case we screw up.
To clarify, just so that I'm not holding things up:
1. If Slidell wants to do a little talking with Vesh, great. If not, we can move on...
2. If JSL has a Vinder Father, Daughter, or Mother scene in mind, I'm throwing Vesh that way. If not, we can...
3. FF to tonight at the Dragon with everyone present, OR FF even more to the dungeon (after taking care of re-supply OOC).
I'm happy to go along with whatever everyone else would like to do. I'm up for more RPing, definitely, but I'd also like us to keep our eyes on the clock. The upside of RPing the downtime a little more is that Fabes gets back tomorrow, right? So maybe if we give Fabes a chance to give Ehlissa some RPing chops, we can all get together at the Dragon, do some quick planning, and then get back down into the dungeon at dawn???
Is it too much to think that we could be swinging swords/slinging spells by Thursday or Friday? If not, we'll probably have to freeze next week's RP award. Or, maybe we should just freeze this week's???
BTW--we're closing in on 2000 posts. W00t!
To clarify, just so that I'm not holding things up:
I hate to speak for anyone else, but I don't believe you're holding things up. Mondays in general seem kind of slow in game-land (they would be; Monday is one of the few days I have free!). JSL indicated that he would be busy today; Rags indicated his posting would be less-than-usual for a couple of days; Mal is mid-conversation with Ameiko; and I think Fabes is going to have A LOT of reading to catch up on the past week before he posts again. Of the rest of us, Vesh and Zieke are the only ones who have done their "shopping."
But since you're planning ahead, any ideas on how/when to get everyone to "converge" before heading to the dungeon again? Salome, Slidell, and Zieke just met up, then split up again; Mal and Vesh are no longer where Slidell left them; and Ehlissa has gone riding. And we can't empathic-link them all back! :)
Is it too much to think that we could be swinging swords/slinging spells by Thursday or Friday? If not, we'll probably have to freeze next week's RP award. Or, maybe we should just freeze this week's???
I think that's a reasonable timeline. Like you said (and I truncated), we need to gather and plan, but most of the planning can be done, I think, in the discussion thread before Thursday/Friday.
Re: Enlarge & Net-good point! We do NOT want the lil bugger slipping out of the weave of an ENLARGED net!
I was actually thinking using the enlarge on Ehlissa just for greater reach/dmg (I have this beautiful vision of her batting the critter across the room!) And/or on Zieke, and hoping he could GRAB the thing, preventing it's escape!
Let me read and catch up, I'm sure Sli will have SOMEthing to say to Vesh (Doesn't he always?!?) ;P
Otherwise I agree with letting Fabes catch up, then regroup and 'plan' as per whatever we decide here. Then FF to the entrance? I just realized that the more fun we have RPing, the more that Fabes has to catch up on! :)
I'll TRY not to write a book, but Sli's plan is to see if the resident wiz has at least one scroll each of Enlarge and MAYBE (since JSL pointed out the low-save thing) an Animate Rope. If I have time, I will scribe the Enlarge spell, then either a) mem two enlarges, since i haven't re-upped my spells yet! or 2) scribe two scrolls of Enlarge, and mem my usual combat spells.
Oops, just got a phone call, See ya in a bit!
I read everything last night, and I'm fairly sure Ehlissa will agree with everything and run with it. It was an uneventful ride... :D
YAY! Fabes is back! (Hope you had a good trip!)
Dang my slow posting!
WHY do they expect me to actually do WORK during the summer classes?!?
;P
Hiya Fabes! Welcome back!
Welcome back, Fabes! It's good to have my verbal-sparring partner back.
Now...
En garde!
;-D
--Neil
I cannot BELIEVE that I did not think of this earlier! SLEEP!
Unless the Quasit is higher than 4th level, I target it when it is up in th air, away from us (it affects the lowest lvl creature in it's range first) and it is nighty-night Quasit! NO SAVE!
Where has my head been? ;P
I cannot BELIEVE that I did not think of this earlier! SLEEP! Unless the Quasit is higher than 4th level, I target it when it is up in th air, away from us (it affects the lowest lvl creature in it's range first) and it is nighty-night Quasit! NO SAVE!
Apologies for the metagaming...but, what kind of sleep spell are you imagining?
The sleep spell from the SRD includes a Will save and spell resistance applies (although quasits don't generally have SR). Now, if you can get past her Will save (which is moderate, since Reflex is where quasits shine the most), then sleep can still work, I suppose. It would last 1 minute per caster level. And presumably we could restrain her at that point.
Quasits also have 3 Hit Dice, which makes them susceptible to the 4 HD limit of sleep. But if she's got class levels (say as a cleric of Lamashtu or something?), she might outstrip the spell's ability to affect her.
My two-cents,
--Neil
Apologies for the metagaming...but, what kind of sleep spell are you imagining?The sleep spell from the SRD includes a Will save and spell resistance applies (although quasits don't generally have SR). Now, if you can get past her Will save (which is moderate, since Reflex is where quasits shine the most), then sleep can still work, I suppose. It would last 1 minute per caster level. And presumably we could restrain her at that point.
Quasits also have 3 Hit Dice, which makes them susceptible to the 4 HD limit of sleep. But if she's got class levels (say as a cleric of Lamashtu or something?), she might outstrip the spell's ability to affect her.
My two-cents,
--Neil
Well,... Chicken Nuggets!
The OLD (1st & 2nd Ed.) version of sleep was a no-saver. Shows you how often I've used THAT spell since 3.0! ;P
(sigh) Nevermind,.... (back to the drawing board,... (grumble grumble)
Okay. Now that we're in (or going to) the Rusty Dragon. Here's what Vesh is equipped with that will help with the group:
1 potion CLW
1 vial of alchemist's fire (for toasting Wrathspawn or marshmallows)
1 silk rope and grappling hook (from his original equipment list)
2 hemp ropes and a couple pitons (these are for the climb down the brick wall rubble into the Thassilonian [sp?] hallway and the climb down the rubble from the tilted room into the Lamashtu shrine room)
5 sunrods
20 cold iron arrow
I'm putting this all here with the assumption that at some point our characters are all seated around a table, and they tally up their equipment. I'm also doing this because, in a moment of duress, it'd be nice for one of you (or your characters, rather) to say, "Hey, didn't Vesh have a potion of CLW. Hey Vesh! Give it up, dude!" Okay, leave the 'dude' part off, but you get my drift.
I hope I didn't overstep my bounds with my last (long) post. My intentions are:
1) Set the stage for collaboration rather than independence.
2) Give everyone get a chance to speak and offer strategies and resources in character.
3) Focus on strengths (we seem to get in trouble when we try to do work outside our "scope of practice").
4) Reestablish group bonds after everyone scattered post-battle.
In that same spirit, I invite (possibly beg) all of you to contribute to this conversation before we take off to the caves.
P.S. I'm going to assume at some point in the day (perhaps between cathedral and Rusty D., or if there's some more rest/recoup/prep time before the evening excursion) Salome puts her armor back on. I hear that high armor class is kind of a useful thing to have. :)
Another problem with Sleep; it's full round casting time tends to cause difficulties.
I hope I didn't overstep my bounds with my last (long) post.
Not at all. We do need to get everyone acting as a coherent group and your post is a fine step in that direction.
Mal's shopping list (can we assume that he did it at some point earlier or should he have a mad scamble around town to buy what he needs?):
Cold Iron dagger
3-4 fishing nets
If available; a potion of CLW.
If he can't find any CLW, what are the chances of finding a potion of Jump?
Mal's shopping list (can we assume that he did it at some point earlier or should he have a mad scamble around town to buy what he needs?):
Cold Iron dagger
3-4 fishing nets
If available; a potion of CLW.
If he can't find any CLW, what are the chances of finding a potion of Jump?
I think a potion of Jump sounds pretty cool; that could solve the reach problem. Do you think Mal could procure (and toss) a tanglefoot bag, too?
In the hopes that my IC post won't be TOO long,... (yeah, RIGHT!) I am listing my possible contributions to the 'exterminate the Quasit' foray here,...
Gear/Spells
Potions: Zip, nada, none (would like to borrow a CLW to have handy, just in case!)
Scrolls:1 X Enlarge Person (One shot deal, would take 24 hours and 100GP to scribe into my spellbook, I think we're agreed we cannot risk waiting that long!)
1 X (each)Sleep, Magic Weapon, Color Spray, Prot/Evil,
1 X 'Rubbing'-Thassilonian scroll of "Burning Hands', CL:5, full round to cast, (I'm presuming this is a one-shot deal? Unless JSL let's me go back and take another rubbing off of the statue later?!?)
1 Cold iron dagger (retrieved from Mal, unless he can't find one, then he can borrow it again)
1 Amulet Prot/Evil (1/Day)
Sorcerer spells: 5 X 0 lvl, 4 X 1 lvl
0=detect magic, prestidigitation, acid splash, mage hand
1=Magic Missile, Mage Armor (last 4 hours, 1 hour longer than Wiz cast due to 'practiced Caster feat)
Wizard Spells: 4 X 0 lvl ,3 X 1 lvl
Spells Memorized:0-Ray of Frost(X2), (!)Sonic Snap(X2)
1-(*)Mage Armor, (*)Summon Monster I, (*)Orb of Cold(lesser)
Spells in Spellbook: 0-ALL, 1st- (*)Orb of Cold(lesser), (*)Mage Armor, (*)Summon Monster I, Sleep, Color Spray, Protection from Evil, Magic Weapon,(!)Benign Transposition,
SO, that is my proposed battle list, I have a scroll of everything I do NOT have memorized (1st lvl) from my spellbook, (except for Benign Transposition, and we all know how well THAT worked last time!) ;P And I swapped my previously mem'd 0-lvl spells for more evocations, both for keys, and just in case we need a LIL more firepower! Open for suggestions, but with the possible exceptions of a more useful o-lvl Wiz spell, I think i'm about as 'power-max'd' and versatile as I'm going to get spell-wise!!
Strategy
Other than bringing extra nets to seal off any quick escape it might try to make, and possibly several big bags of flour, (That stuff will stick to ANYthing!), I can't think of anything else that hasn't been bought or mentioned before.
NOTE-Prot/Evil has a short duration,(1 min/lvl), but one of it's many bonuses is it WILL also protect you from the CHARM effects of an evil creature! So anyone who has it up when the Quasit goes 'BOO!' is immune! Sli has his pendant (Cloak clasp) for him, and 1 scroll as well. (Both at 1st lvl, so 1 min duration)
I don't want to lessen Salome's Holy Fire-Power, but was Bless on your current list? Just because it gives a bonus to ALL in our party to hit, AND on Saves vs FEAR. (Both of which are always useful!) Unfortunately it is also 1min/lvl, but with Salome that means we get it for 3 minutes! So once we're sure that the thing is in the same room as us, she could cast it first, and we'd have time to make it reveal itself.
If we can catch the thing in a net, I won't need all 4 of my Magic Missiles. That means I could use Mage Armor on one or two others if we want too. Unfortunately, that likely won't help against the wee beastie's supernatural aim with it's poison darts, but other than that, as Dreamer pointed out, a Higher AC is generally counted as a good thing!
OK, that's pretty much all I got! Next?
I think I listed my spells before, on a previous page. But here it is again. I have:
Protection from Evil amulet
0 Level:
2 Lights (utility)
Guidance (attack/defense)
Resistance (defense)
1st Level:
Ironguts (defense)
Bless (defense)
Remove Fear (defense)
Light of Lunia (offense)
2nd Level
Spiritual Weapon (offense)
Light of Mercuria (offense)
Bless Weapon (offense)
If you think it's a good idea, Salome can cast Bless (all), Ironguts (Zieke?), and Bless Weapon/Guidance/Resistance (Vesh?) Remove Fear (Malcolm?) before entering the room.
She can also turn any spell slot into a heal spell and is now able to cast Cure Moderate Wounds (2nd lvl). HOWEVER, that would mean giving up her best offensive spells -- or not protecting someone before going in.
Does Salome not have the ability to spontaneously cast healing spells? Do I not know how that works? I thought she could prepare whatever 2nd level spell she needs and turn it into a healing spell if necessary. <---Drrr. Nevermind this. Perhaps I should actually read more closely, yeah?
Also, in terms of netting, I think Mal is the only likely candidate for that. Do we know what we're going to do once we've caught it. It's one thing to go fishing and another to catch fish. (I remember catching my first trout and freezing--I realized that no one had told be how to release the darned thing!!! Not that we're doing 'catch and release' with the quasit, mind you.)
Do we know what we're going to do once we've caught it.
Whack its head on a rock 'til it stops flopping? :S
STRATEGY THUS FAR:
• Actually, flour might not be a bad idea. Anything to aid detection. I'm expecting Salome's scarves to still be up.
• I think I like Vesh's teams and reasoning for pairing off. Even though Vesh and Malcolm got the bad end of a wrathspawn last time, they work well together (flanking, back-stabbing, etc.) and are the most mobile. I'd trust them to work as a pair if they each have AT LEAST one CLW. Can Slidell cast Mage Armor on one or both?
• Similarly, I think Salome and Zieke's styles would work well together and their abilities (magical/spiritual vs. combat/physical) are complementary. In that pairing, if attacked from two directions, they can each hold their own.
• In a Slidell-Ehlissa team, would Slidell listen to Ehlissa? Would they be competing to talk to the quasit? And would Ehlissa be able to hold off multiple threats in order to protect both herself and the mage?
• I need a better idea of what Zieke has in mind for bait. Is there any way in the--let's say 2-3 hours before everyone is ready to go--to figure out what this thing wants? Is there time for Slidell to consult his scroll one more time, or for characters to meet with townspeople who might be able to shed some light?
Do we know what we're going to do once we've caught it.
Choke the life out of it with our bare hands? Drown it in its own well? Make it sit and listen to Slidell's musings for a few hours? ;-P
I've got to head home, but I'll post again later tonight on the "bait" strategy, as I think it could prove useful.
--Neil
You guys are funny. I like the rock idea! I should've taken you both fishing--though your tactics kind of cramp the whole 'catch and release' vibe I had going on at the time. Got a lot of instruction on the catch, not so much on the release.
In any case, to put in my two cents:
STRATEGY THUS FAR:
• Actually, flour might not be a bad idea. Anything to aid detection. I'm expecting Salome's scarves to still be up.
-->I also think the flour thing might have merit. The bummer is execution. How do we get the flour above, to burst on, or stick to the Quasit. Perhaps if we roll it in butter first?
-->The thing to remember is the number of actions we can take. Sorry for the gamesmanship-think, but if some of us are engaged in flinging flour and casting nets, we're not engaged in dealing damage. This doesn't matter as much if it's just us vs. the Quasit. But it matters more if we've got to get through even one minion before we get to the quasit. And, no, I don't mean minion in a 4E sense. The Wrathspawn is a little more formidable than that. But the function remains the same for JSL. Any action taken against the Wrathspawn (or whatever else is down there) is an action not taken against the Quasit. The battle is finite, say four-to-five rounds, so JSL gets to deflect one fourth-to-one fifth of at least a couple of PC's (and maybe all of the PCs depending on the amount of riff-raff we need to wade through) actions away from the Quasit.
• I think I like Vesh's teams and reasoning for pairing off. Even though Vesh and Malcolm got the bad end of a wrathspawn last time, they work well together (flanking, back-stabbing, etc.) and are the most mobile. I'd trust them to work as a pair if they each have AT LEAST one CLW. Can Slidell cast Mage Armor on one or both?
-->Mage armor would be most excellent in any case. However, that eats up time as it would have to be cast before we enter the well room (right before initiative, ideally) and if the thing isn't in there, we've likely wasted the spell.
• Similarly, I think Salome and Zieke's styles would work well together and their abilities (magical/spiritual vs. combat/physical) are complementary. In that pairing, if attacked from two directions, they can each hold their own.
-->Agreed.
• In a Slidell-Ehlissa team, would Slidell listen to Ehlissa? Would they be competing to talk to the quasit? And would Ehlissa be able to hold off multiple threats in order to protect both herself and the mage?
-->Slidell isn't completely defenseless, but this is a danger if multiple minions get to them. However, I don't think that the groups (whether in threes or twos) should spread out more than one move action away from the other until all the minions are killed or at least mostly dead ("Bring out you dead!" Sorry.) . In terms of talking, we'd just have to decide up-front who is going to take the lead...and then stick to it.
• I need a better idea of what Zieke has in mind for bait. Is there any way in the--let's say 2-3 hours before everyone is ready to go--to figure out what this thing wants? Is there time for Slidell to consult his scroll one more time, or for characters to meet with townspeople who might be able to shed some light?
-->What can we piece together so far in this regard? Whose been paying attention enough to link the goblins to the runewell to the Temple of Lamashtu to the Thassilionian ruins to the demon to Nualia??? I'm starting to loose track a little.
I can post more on what Slidell has figured out (right or wrong!) in the last posted bunch of Goblins/Runewell/Quasit/etc. connections later, running short on time right now.
But real quick, My Mage Armors last 3 hours if cast as a Wiz, and 4 hours if cast as a Sor! so they are the FIRST thing we would be casting before we even enter the area, not last minute like the short lived Bless, Prot/Evils, Enlarge, etc
FLOUR:
Low-tech weapons usually work adequately with low-tech execution.
Examples:
• Move action to throw a handful (useful in air as dust)
• Dip net in flour ahead of time; even if it misses, will scatter the flour
• Use a scarf blanket-toss style to shake/throw flour into the air
• etc.
MINIONS:
I think the variety of threats is limited.
Goblins
Not likely; more useful to quasit dead than alive. Kind of dumb, but their songs are funny.
Best strategy: challenge and flank; avoid dogslicers
Special: Ehlissa's main foe, correct?
Wrathspawn
Known threat. Teeth, claws, poision, rage.
Best strategy: two- or three-on-one; hit hard and quick. Immune to acid?
Special: Flammable
Zombies/Undead
Possible if quasit has been busy in the night.
Move slow, low hp, but bad when they gang up together.
Best strategy: holy weapons, slashing. No piercing
Special: Salome has at least 9 Turn Undead/day, independent of daily spell slots, and Light of Lunia/Mercuria works on them too.
I agree that getting minions out of the way early on will make it easier to handle the quasit. I don't see the net as a round lost so much as an item to facilitate our ultimate goal.
HAND SIGNALS:
Aside from the ASL sign for "look" (point to eyes with two fingers and then point them in the direction indicated), I don't know any good combat signs. (This made the animated Clone Wars a little difficult to follow.) For the uninitiated, could someone give some examples, which would probably help my RPing when we get there?
A couple more questions to consider: How do we define "victory," and when do we know it's time to run? AND who will be the one with authority to call retreat?
I would have thought we can just handwave (no pun intended) all the signalling and whatnot - it's just a given that everyone knows what to do, isn't it?
Wrathspawn
...
Special: Flammable
That made me laugh.
I don't see the net as a round lost so much as an item to facilitate our ultimate goal.
Agreed. Right on the nail. I was just trying to point out that that's an action that takes away from someone (Mal) dealing damage, which only becomes an issue if we're facing a lot of riff-raff. It is definitely a crucial tactic against the Quasit.
HAND SIGNALS:
Aside from the ASL sign for "look" (point to eyes with two fingers and then point them in the direction indicated), I don't know any good combat signs.
My three-year-old does that sign, but only because I taught him how to do it as part of the whole DeNiro/Meet the Parents/"I'm watching you" thing. He cracks me up: "Papa, papa! Look!" *does the sign*
(This made the animated Clone Wars a little difficult to follow.)
Okay, hold the presses! Please do NOT misconstrue what I'm about the write. I love my wife, dearly. She's the best thing that ever happened to me, literally (marrying me, that is). But, she's not a gamer, isn't remotely interested in Sci Fi, and--while she appreciates good writing, etc.--I think in her heart of hearts, she's still waiting for me to outgrow this whole D&D thing. SO, the fact that someone out there (JSL) is married to a woman (Dreamer) who sat down and watched the animated Clone Wars...I'm a little jealous.
For the uninitiated, could someone give some examples, which would probably help my RPing when we get there?
Links to follow:
A page of SWAT team hand signals. Who knows where these came from. But, when you read them and follow with this page...
A spoof on the above hand signals. I laughed so hard a co-worked looked into my office to see if I was okay. But, then again, maybe it's just me.
A couple more questions to consider: How do we define "victory," and when do we know it's time to run? AND who will be the one with authority to call retreat?
Hmm. Do we need to define victory? Our government seems to avoid doing so. Ooooooh, I'm sorry. I broke a cardinal rule right there. Believe me when I say that I did so for the sake of the joke. Won't happen again.
Seriously though, I think anything short of a dead Quasit is a loss at this point. Permanently damaging the runewell would be nice. I wonder what would happen if you chucked some holy water in it?
Dead Quasit = teh uber win. Anything else is a loss. Ehlissa will be more than willing to call a tactical withdrawal again, as per "The Voyages of Spirit Vesh" - my tabletop comrades are familiar with my "Perhaps we should try running now?" philosophy.
...flour might not be a bad idea...
I think it may depend on how JSL chooses to rule on it. The interpretation of invisibility at-will has sometimes made for an ability of the user to temporarily become visible as a result of something that contacts it...but the creature can then use the at-will ability on its next action to cause itself to become invisible again, as well as anything it's holding...or, that's stuck to its body (such as an arrow, etc.). If you interpret it that way, some DMs say that flour will also disappear. Other DMs say that's a bad way to go and there should be something mundane that can be used to counter invisibility. And flour is the best example of that.
...I think I like Vesh's teams and reasoning for pairing off. Even though Vesh and Malcolm got the bad end of a wrathspawn last time, they work well together (flanking, back-stabbing, etc.) and are the most mobile.
I believe Zieke is just as mobile. He wears light armor and I haven't gone back to figure his exact encumbrance, but he does have a fairly high strength. I know he's not as weighed down as Ehlissa. So I just assumed he and Malcolm could make a good mobile team, too. In addition, Vesh should be able to use his sneak attack at range with his bow. And, by keeping him back from the hand-to-hand fighting and disengaged from any of the quasit's minions, I think it will give him a wider view of the battle and the ability to sneak attack even the quasit. So, if he can put a cold iron arrow into the quasit, that might help tag her, too...again, depending on how JSL chooses to rule on visible objects that stick to an invisible creature.
Bottom line for me is that I think Zieke is going to need to focus on the minions in melee to keep them away from the rest of you. Putting him next to Salome or Slidell is kind of waste for his abilities if Mal and Vesh wind up getting entangled in melee with something. Other than rushing to their aid, Zieke isn't really going to affect much else.
I don't think that the groups (whether in threes or twos) should spread out more than one move action away from the other until all the minions are killed or at least mostly dead...
I agree. Spread out enough so they can't all be targeted at once. But stay within a move action so each group can support one another if something unexpected happens.
My Mage Armors last 3 hours if cast as a Wiz, and 4 hours if cast as a Sor! so they are the FIRST thing we would be casting before we even enter the area, not last minute like the short lived Bless, Prot/Evils, Enlarge, etc
I'd recommend saving the mage armor's from your Sorcerer spells. You should be pumping out magic missile's with that casting power. If you want to use the mage armor from Slidell's Wizard levels, go for it. But keep your offensive power as much as possible...and especially the ranged no-save variety. I think those did some of the best damage against the quasit last time and they'll certainly help carry the day on round two.
Wrathspawn... Known threat. Teeth, claws, poision, rage...Best strategy: two- or three-on-one; hit hard and quick. Immune to acid?
So far, I don't think any of us have met a wrathspawn that attacks from range. So, if we do run into one or more of them this next time around, we should draw them out and damage them from afar before they can even close with us. That way, even before they can get a claw (and their poison) on us, we'll have already whittled them down. And any ensuing hand-to-hand battle should hopefully be one-sided and short-lived in our favor.
Zombies/Undead...Possible if quasit has been busy in the night...Move slow, low hp, but bad when they gang up together...Best strategy: holy weapons, slashing. No piercing
By far, the best way to deal with these will be Salome. They too don't tend to have ranged weapons. So, fall back from them. Warriors with best AC to the front to hold them back and protect Salome until she's used Sarenrae's light to blast every last one of them into oblivion. Then move on...
Goblins...Not likely; more useful to quasit dead than alive. Kind of dumb, but their songs are funny...Best strategy: challenge and flank; avoid dogslicers...Special: Ehlissa's main foe, correct?
Frankly, I'd relish goblins as long as they aren't the mutant variety again. Between Mal's two-weapon fighting, Vesh's bow, and Zieke's Cleave feat, that ought to be a lopsided battle unless we're really outnumbered. And, if so, we should look for a side corridor to narrow them down so only a few can come at us at a time.
I agree that getting minions out of the way early on will make it easier to handle the quasit. I don't see the net as a round lost so much as an item to facilitate our ultimate goal.
My thoughts were that Zieke and Mal working together stand the best chance of taking down any melee-oriented minions the quasit might have on the ground. And if Vesh can hit them with arrows while Ehlissa scans for the quasit so Salome and Slidell can keep it occupied, that should make short work of any minions she does have.
Meanwhile, I think the net will work better as a surprise attack once you three have her attention. If Zieke and Mal can dispatch her allies and then prepare the net while she's focused on you, it should make it more likely to snare her if we can catch her in a flanking or sneak attack from Mal. Personally, I think that's a better approach to deploying the net rather than showing we have one at the very start of the battle. Otherwise, the quasit may adapt her strategy to simply avoid it at all costs and never come within range of any of our blades...much less our arrows and spells.
I don't know any good combat signs....For the uninitiated, could someone give some examples, which would probably help my RPing when we get there?
Simple stuff:
Closed fist held upright means "halt" because the person on "point" has either spotted something or suspects an ambush up ahead and he needs everyone to hold still and remain quiet so no one gives away their position and so he can listen or look more closely.A closed fist that suddenly results in an open hand with the fingers and thumb spread wide can sometimes mean for the group to scatter and find cover or hide.
A hand held palm downward and out to the side, pushing towards the ground means for everyone to get down to avoid detection or take cover, as well.
A closed fist held out to the side can mean for everyone to form a line side-by-side to aid in searching or set up a perimeter defense.
Most everything else is pretty generic, really. Hand signals aren't super-communicative to begin with...
1st Level:
Ironguts (defense)
Bless of course! (defense)
Remove Fear (defense)
Light of Lunia (offense)
2nd Level
Spiritual Weapon (offense)
Light of Mercuria (offense)
Bless Weapon (offense)
I might suggest that you forego ironguts in favor of preparing another light of lunia given how effective it can be as a weapon against outsiders...or was that light of mercuria you used last time? I forget. The ironguts spell would be useful for only one of us. It would need to be cast in advance. Whoever had it would need to be the primary person to engage the wrathspawn, probably...and then the quasit if they can get hand-to-hand with it. Even then, it only provides a bonus on saves vs. poison. It doesn't make you immune to it. Thus, it's likely someone's going to get poisoned again anyway. In which case, maybe it's best if you trade it out for something else.
How do we define "victory," and when do we know it's time to run? AND who will be the one with authority to call retreat?
To Zieke, victory is making sure this quasit is dead or banished so it can no longer pose a threat. And clearing out anything else dangerous in the ruins as well.
I think we'll all sense when it's time to run if it comes to that again. Someone has to be down with little chance of saving them unless we retreat. Also, depending on how much the quasit's strategy disrupts us again, it might be wise to withdraw if a lot of folks get significantly hindered in some way...or we just run out of things to affect the quasit.
If you want someone to assume authority for calling a retreat, it should probably be Salome, Zieke, or Ehlissa. Just my opinion...
I need a better idea of what Zieke has in mind for bait.
My idea around this involves Slidell or Salome pretending that we invaded the quasit's stronghold for a specific purpose...something to do with Lamashtu...and then act like we've got to keep it a secret from the quasit. If Slidell can make out like he's got an ancient piece of lore or a key that will let him recover something from Lamashtu's shrine before the quasit can turn it into a weapon...or if Salome pretended to have a particular ceremony that she needed to perform to permanently cleanse the taint and power of Lamashtu from the entire ruin...I think something like that would start to attract the quasit's curiosity. And, if we pretended that we have a vital object of some kind with information related to that effort, she'll want to steal it. If we can mark it (with flour? wet ink? something?) so that when she puts her hands on it, it will reveal her to us...then that should work as effectively as any trap Zieke could ever imagine.
Other than that, his cleverness in trapping a quasit is somewhat limited. I'm basing this idea purely off of what he overheard the quasit say and how she carried herself during the battle...and reacted to the well flickering and going dark. Hmmm...in fact, given that...maybe we should legitimately express concern about trying to permanently damage the well, hinting that its power can be restored according to some ancient book we've brought with us. Then leave the book somewhat carelessly vulnerable to theft and let the quasit's curiosity help us kill her. That approach seems to resonate with what Father Zantus described to Vesh. Find what the quasit desires, basically. And then use that against her...
My considerably lengthy two-cents,
--Neil
Love the book idea -who has the best Bluff? :D
I have an image of Ehlissa and Slidell doing their best am-dram acting:
"Yes-Slidell-I-think-we-should-just-leave-the-book-UNGUARDED-and-go-to-SLEE P."
JSL puts up with a lot (the fact that I've spent the last 10 years on the therapist track is but one example). Playing along and supporting his interests is the least I can do.
Quasit's greatest hits:
"I am free to do as I please with my servants. As to my reward, I am well favored of the Mother - for she has sent me a daughter to serve me and do my bidding."
"You cannot offer me the thing which I already have and which you do not! I can leave as I may - it is you who cannot Child of the Dawn!"
"The bird-thing is mine, skinny manling. You are weak and could not keep it! Now I have it and you cannot take it! But you are *free* to try"
"Come skinny manling! Come little girl! Come get your birdie!"
She has gone forth to free the spawn of Yethazmari - a champion to our cause - from imprisonment in the realm of my former Master's rival. Oh, don't be sad, precious one. There is enough yet here for you!
My purpose?!? Watch and learn, girls. Then she turns towards where the other party members are struggling to contain the wrathspawn and whispers: BOO!
Thought you were done with me, did you! Don't despair - we will have penty of time to grow acquainted!
Such puny weapons you mortals have. Come children! Your priestess dies! Come suckle at Lamashtu's teat and learn of true power. Become her sons and daughters!
Taste the pleasures of my mistress, mortal! Drink of the goddess, whelp!
Unlike my puppets here, Lamashtu's embrace is slow. Mark me, you will soon wish yourself dead. Maybe you still have a chance while the pool yet functions!
A wizard, are you! More like a lucky fool! Your luck has run out!
Noooooooooo! Master's runewell! she shieks. Run and hide! Run and hide! There's no escape from death!
Re-reading, it looks like the quasit is currently aligned with Lamashtu. I'm reading "former Master" as Alzanist.
And "freedom" is a sore point with this creature. But exactly what it wants? I don't know yet.
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I believe Zieke is just as mobile. He wears light armor and I haven't gone back to figure his exact encumbrance, but he does have a fairly high strength. I know he's not as weighed down as Ehlissa. So I just assumed he and Malcolm could make a good mobile team, too. In addition, Vesh should be able to use his sneak attack at range with his bow. And, by keeping him back from the hand-to-hand fighting and disengaged from any of the quasit's minions, I think it will give him a wider view of the battle and the ability to sneak attack even the quasit.
I agree with most of this...and tend to forget Zieke's mobility. My thought on the pairs was this: have one ranged guy (Vesh, Salome, and Slidell) with one melee type (Zieke, Ehlissa, and Mal). These labels are a little artificial, to be sure (esp. for Salome and Mal who go both ways).
Vesh's ranged attack is a sneak attach within 30 feet and he still needs to catch his opp. flat-footed or flanked. His utility at greater range is a little more shaky. Especially with something as small and fast as the quasit. He'll plug the minions, of course. But sticking him in the back, and using him as strictly artillery, isn't going to going to get him many sneak attack ops. Now, if he could get up to the balcony, that'd be something. Others (Zieke or Mal) could help him get flanking bonuses by keeping foes in between. He might get a height advantage, too.
What if Slidell sent Veran up to the balcony and transposed Vesh up there? If nothing else was up there (and that's actually important), that'd get Vesh out of melee trouble and would free up Mal to help Zieke or someone else with flanks. Or, we could stick Slidell up there. Keep him out of trouble!
Thanks for your input. I'll consider replacing Ironguts with Light of Lunia.
Re: A trap
...or if Salome pretended to have a particular ceremony that she needed to perform to permanently cleanse the taint and power of Lamashtu from the entire ruin...I think something like that would start to attract the quasit's curiosity...
I'm picturing Salome making a "holy circle" out of flour instead of silver dust. :D
Slidell, hands down, is the better ham. :) Any other "trap" ideas?
Also, good point to hide the net. Do we want to cover an exit with another net (perhaps, the opening at the top of the ladder, rather than the archway)?
What if Slidell sent Veran up to the balcony and transposed Vesh up there?
That's a pretty cool sounding idea. Of course, if Vesh gets trapped up there, it might not look too pretty...or cool. But if we have managed to take away most of the quasit's footsoldiers, perhaps that will give him a good place to sneak attack from...? In general, I like the idea.
I'm picturing Salome making a "holy circle" out of flour instead of silver dust. :D
That might be an interesting "trap" too. :D
Any other "trap" ideas?
Feel free to suggest more in-character. Zieke's just putting his idea on the table. It doesn't have to go down that way. Add, modify, or veto his idea in its entirety. It's the discussion of it that matters, as it's very in-character for him to suggest such a crafty ploy in catching his prey.
Also, good point to hide the net. Do we want to cover an exit with another net (perhaps, the opening at the top of the ladder, rather than the archway)?
As long as we can do it without the quasit knowing we've done so...or otherwise tip her to the fact that we brought nets. She's smart enough to figure out what they're for pretty quickly. And also smart enough to avoid them once she does...
--Neil
As long as we can do it without the quasit knowing we've done so...or otherwise tip her to the fact that we brought nets. She's smart enough to figure out what they're for pretty quickly. And also smart enough to avoid them once she does...
A very salient point. This should add a sense of haste since the characters are already employing nets in the tunnels. She may have encountered them already.
One more idea...but it would have to come from Slidell. The prestidigitation cantrip might have some applicability to helping us mark the quasit.
Here's the official spell description from the SRD:
Prestidigitation
Universal
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: 1 hour
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No
Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.
If such a spell can "...soil items in a 1-foot cube each round..." and "...Any actual change to an object (beyond just...soiling it) persists only 1 hour..." that might be useful. Even if you can't target the actual quasit with it (though you could if she appears in order to attack us again), you could still target the book if she tried to steal it, and presumably the "soiling" effect would get her too since it can be used to affect a 1-foot cube. You'd have to get within 10 feet of her to cast it, though. Nevertheless, it might be worth having it prepared in case an opportunity presents itself...
Thinking outside the box,
--Neil
Just letting you know:
1) I'm still around, even though I'm very busy and likely to continue to be very busy for all of next week.
2) It sounds like you are still planning, which is fine. I haven't had time to read all the posts thoroughly, so if there are questions for me, let me know.
Also let me know (or set a date) for when you are re-entering the tunnel. Sometime this weekend would be good so I can write up the exposition.
I think this weekend would be fine. I won't be able to post much during the day tomorrow, but I'd be able to post once the kiddos go down. Also, you probably won't see much of me on Sunday.
EDIT--So to translate the Quasit's statement:
"She has gone forth to free the spawn of Lamashtu - a champion to our cause - from imprisonment in the realm of my former Master's [Alzanist] rival [some other dude]. Oh, don't be sad, precious one. There is enough yet here for you!"
Which begs the obvious questions:
1. What are the spawn of Lamashtu?
2. Where, specifically, are they imprisoned?
3. Who was Alzanist's rival?
Hmmm...wheels within wheels...
Yah, I like the Prestidigitation/marking idea too. I love finding creative uses for spells, but hesitated to rely TOO much on the power of a 0-lvl cantrip! (I've been pretty much pushing the limits of that spell already, just not in a combat situation!)
Possibly the Prestidigitation could be used to spread the flour around in an area? Example= I pull out bag of flour disguised as tome with minor image, grabbing an attended item is an attack, so she will have to become visible to grab it, I trigger a use of Prestidi~ to burst or spray the flour. Won't cover a huge area, but I think that spraying the flour in the 5' space of the bag is reasonable and within the basic parameters.
Last night while mulling over your 'damage the well' scenario, I already thought that Prestidigitation could be used to do several things to make it look like I am counterspelling the well,...
-sparks
-colored smoke
-pour ink into the well, then change the color of the ink,
-pour oil into the well, light it, then change the color of the flames,...
All while muttering in other languages of course, (Probably shouldn't use Thassilonian, she probably speaks it better than me!), and doing things in a hurry to make her REACT in a hurry, so she doesn't catch on (IE= Spellcraft) that I'm only yanking her chain!
sorry, instead of narrowing down our possible actions, I'm adding more! ;P
What do you think?
But that scientist dude in "Stargate" could speak ancient Egyptian fluently! (What? You mean that's not real?)
If no one minds too much (and even if you do, I'm going to do it anyway), Salome, as discussion facilitator, is going to summarize and wrap up the meeting here. I think we've said everything that can be said (great thinking out of the box, guys!), and should plan to meet up at the cave in a couple of game-hours.
EDIT:
And now for something completely different...
"I still wonder if I just wave a pineapple around,
Where would you find a pineapple?
Perhaps a migrating swallow dropped it...?
Well, now you're getting somewhere!
Perhaps, in the couple of hours leading up to re-entering the tunnels, Slidell could consult with the sage, and Salome and/or Vesh could consult with Father Zantus on the answers to the above questions. We could use the information against the Quasit, to make a more convincing lie.
EDIT: I don't really care what ruse we try, but I will reiterate Vesh's concern here. If whatever ruse we use falls apart, we're really back to square-one (just a little more prepared this time). Assuming that she attacks and becomes visible, it'll come down to ranged spells and weapons. Mostly ranged spells, I'd imagine. Slidell better have all the Magic Missiles he can!
Perhaps, in the couple of hours leading up to re-entering the tunnels, Slidell could consult with the sage, and Salome and/or Vesh could consult with Father Zantus on the answers to the above questions. We could use the information against the Quasit, to make a more convincing lie.
Great idea! Definitely worth doing in the hours before we head for the tunnels again...