I'm looking at this adventure, and I'm going to start in on it tomorrow, and whew. The encounter at the noblewoman's estate is just too much--so many spellcaster and spell like powers all at once. Has anyone figured out some kind of chart or anything for this scene?
If you're going to have all the bad guys arrive with all their buffs pre-cast, make sure that all the round per level or minute per level buffs have worn off before the fight starts. Just sayin'.
In my game, the bad guys had one round of prep before the party kicked the door open and opened with a maximized Firebrand, followed by the radiant servant of pelor turning the vampire & dread wraith into two little teeny piles of dust.
The single-classed wizard, having fewer than 60 hit points and a failed save, went down the first round.
The only bad guys who survived more than three rounds were the rogues, the people with Spell Resistance, and Thifirane, who teleported out in the third round, after half her guests were dead.
The only other survivor was Adrick Garthun, who stood in the back and did nothing the entire fight, because all the other bad guys were between him and the fight; he snuck out later in the fight and was found trying to disarm a trap on a window so he could escape, and he thanked the party for rescuing him from this evil, evil place, thinking, "well, I haven't committed any crimes here, tonight." The above-mentioned cleric geased him to leave Cauldron and find another way to make money, so he went to Waterdeep and joined the Thieves' Guild there.
There's no mention for most of these guys of any previous connection with Thifirane or each other. Since some of them are chaotics it's not unreasonable to assume a certain level of paranoia and preparation against treachery are in place.
Some will assume the worst and believe they've been set up and betrayed and will turn on the others.
Some of them will be all about getting out and saving their own ass.
Divide and conquer.
Plus, I think spreading the fight out throughout the estate and maybe right onto the streets would be really cool.
Good points about alignment and about potential for preparation. I think what I might do is have plan A where the pcs take them with their pants down and plan B where they have some time to prepare and plan C where if the pcs are clever enough to exploit it there's some paranoia and chaos going on. The basic combat stat cheat sheet is a great idea, in fact I'll prepare for it tonight.
My pcs have shown a tendency to do "commando" style tactics right down to the spell use--using silence and if possible illusions to cover their approach, so they might be able to get past the guards and at least not make a huge racket just coming in.
My group role played through the entire scenario, after getting an invite through Jil.
Jil tipped off the party and gave them invitations, hoping that the PCs would knock off some of the rogues as the party, thus increasing her own position in the guild.
The players came up with disguises and fake names and what not. The PC with the smoking eye had his hood up and smoked a pipe the whole time.
The funniest moment was when one of the players jokinginly asked another player who was pretending to be a bard if he would play a song for the group. "Smashing idea!" I chirpped in as one of the NPCs.
Everyone froze, and tried to pass it off as an out-of-character comment, but the more they tried, the more the NPCs became interested, and slightly offended. So, the player rolled his *untrained* check and got a natural 20.
The NPCs all applauded politely, and one of the players said (quietly, in charater) "I didn't know you could play that!" to which the other player responded "Neither did I!"
It was fun. Plus by not killing off all the NPCs in the room, they were able to find out who else was involved in this large plot, and they didn't play into Jil's hands or upset the balance of power within the city's guilds.
That's wonderful, I love it when pcs pull the creativity out of their you know what's at the last moment. Very clever plan too.
My pcs may one day learn how to infiltrate. But I remember how one of them posing as a merchant was asked "so, what do you sell?" and the pc responding, "I um...sell...uh..." while the others collectively groaned.
Am I right in thinking it is the plans that need to be foiled, not all the npcs taken out?
Neither, really. The PCs don't get to the point of making actual plan-changing effects on the bad guys until they head off to the Tree. Until then, they're just getting xp and treasure and info.
Has anyone thought of doing a "Prince of Redhand" on their group and have weird stuff served at the meeting as a sort of 'this is the kind of thing we eat' challenge?
Has anyone thought of doing a "Prince of Redhand" on their group and have weird stuff served at the meeting as a sort of 'this is the kind of thing we eat' challenge?
Assuming you don't have a fireball first role-play via Speak With Dead group, that would be freaking awesome!
First course...sweet & sour jermlaine kabobs!
Gurubabaramalamaswami.
Sorry to dig up an old post, but I am getting the impression that the encounter at House Rhiavaldi was not a challenge for anybody's party. My group certainly didn't have an issue this weekend; one holy word and most everything was at least blind and deafened. It only took them around 2 rounds to defeat everyone. (Thifirane prudently teleported the heck out of there.)
Is this the common experience? Was nobody challenged by this EL 20 encounter?
(Note, I'm not complaining. My group needed the confidence boost after a TPK with Vitriss Bale.)
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My group also had little trouble. They did show up the morning after the party, when some bad guys had left, and the rest were dispersed around the house. There were only three of them, but they still rolled through the house with ease.
For that matter, they steamrolled Vitruss Bale pretty well. Mostly thanks to the cleric calling down the divine wrath.
How about the beholder's lair? I actually just read this adventure a little while ago and thought the strange doors were odd.
It says the only way to open the door is to cast the apropriate spell on it. The doors however dont seem to be described as being different colors or anything to show wich eye ray is needed for which door.
I doubt the magic users in a party are willing to blow all their magic trying to find the right spell/door combination.
I doubt they can even find out thats how the doors are opened in the first place.
For those who played through it...How were the door bypassed? Do all parties just pick locks or bash doors down?
I will be DMing that next session and I would like to hear responses on this topic, too.
However, the Open Lock DC is 45. I know the rogue in my party has a 25 in that skill. However, I think you could rule that taking 20 is not reasonable on this since the trap goes off on a failed attempt.
Conversely, finding the trap is trivial and disabling the device is only DC 33, so they can probably get rid of the trap with no problem, making the Open Lock possible by taking 20.
Am I interpreting this correctly? It is only a CR 10...
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Basically the doors are meant to be a speedbump, not a complete adventure stopper. Most rogues at that point in the AP should have the ability to disable the traps after which its only a matter of beating down the door or just picking the lock.
Barring that many parties at this point will have nifty magical abilities like passwall, dimension door, and even the ability to go ethreal. These all allow them to skip the doors. Other PCs might also have some use-at-will abilities (or magic items) that mimic one or two of the beholder eye rays.
If all that fails then you need to take a look at the party you are DMing and re-adjust the doors so they are designed to be more easily opened for your party.
Its still my personal opinion that the doors make it possible for the beholder to carry out hit-and-run tactics on the invading party since he can instantly move from room to room but the party will usually be delayed at least a few rounds to get past the doors. However, the way he is written makes him a coward at heart (plus he has to finish the ritual) so those kinds of tactics are not really possible.
Just ran the Thifirane encounter. It was challenging, both for me and for my party; however, I had just adopted a new behind-the-screen stats system for myself, and it allowed me to keep track of all the characters' and NPCs' tactics and spells.
The party beat most of the opponents after about 7 rounds. It would have been faster, but my group's tactics have never been very tight. Plus, one player was playing a new wizard character for the first time, so she was trying out cool new spells which might not have been the best choices at the time (lots of single-target touch spells instead of mass effect). One NPC ally died, and one PC got shunted to another plane as a result of prismatic spray (side quest!). Otherwise, no serious losses.
The best part of this encounter was telling the group afterwards that it was EL 20. The pride on their faces was delightful!
Just ran the Thifirane encounter. It was challenging, both for me and for my party; however, I had just adopted a new behind-the-screen stats system for myself, and it allowed me to keep track of all the characters' and NPCs' tactics and spells.
Gonturan: Do tell us about your new system! I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve my ability to maneuver through encounters confidently and efficiently as DM.
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Just ran the Thifirane encounter. It was challenging, both for me and for my party; however, I had just adopted a new behind-the-screen stats system for myself, and it allowed me to keep track of all the characters' and NPCs' tactics and spells.
Another bump to this thread; please let us into your secrets of DM-Fu!
I am on the lookout for time-saving tricks, as my group can be very bad at making encounters take longer than they possibly should.
...please let us into your secrets of DM-Fu!
Prior to that session, I'd been writing all NPC and monster stats out by hand on looseleaf, along with empty bars to keep track of hit points (basically, a horizontal line with small ticks every 5 hp, and larger ticks every 10 hp. This makes it easy to see how damaged each creature is).
I realized that, with larger encounters, I was flipping back & forth a lot -- checking looseleaf sheets every time a creature attacked AND every time they had to defend (or make saving throws, etc.). Also, I was writing out initiative lists on looseleaf, which meant a lot of erasing and scribbling whenever anybody held or delayed an action.
So I switched to initiative cards -- but only halfway. Each creature and NPC gets a recipe card with his/her/its OFFENSIVE stats, plus any quick notes about tactics I could fit on the card. I also wrote down the page number of the SCAP hardcover where I could look up extra stats (or spell listings, which rarely fit onto a recipe card). Finally, each card has a space for initiative results (I roll these before the game session begins, and put them in order).
When gaming, this means I just need to flip each card over to the back of the stack once the NPC's round is done. I have cards for the PCs in the stack also.
When it's a PC's turn, I refer to the looseleaf sheets, which now have only the DEFENSIVE stats (hp, AC, saves, immunities). This means less flipping of cards AND less flipping of sheets. The only messy points seem to be attacks of opportunity, but my PCs are rigorous about avoiding them (even the ones with mobility, go figure), so it's not that big an issue.
Finally, I worked out most spellcasters' tactics in advance (using the descriptions in the book), and wrote these tactics down on BOTH the cards and the sheets. That way, I reminded myself to change the relevant stats (so, for example, changing BOTH ranged attacks (on the card) and AC (on the sheet) after a cat's grace spell is cast).
It sounds like a lot of prep work -- and, for an encounter like that one, it is -- but for most sessions, it only takes an hour or two.
(I also highly recommend Paizo's Combat Pad for monitoring initiatives.)
Is this the common experience? Was nobody challenged by this EL 20 encounter?
After several failed attempts (following the simulacrums, trying to get a job as a bodyguard) my group teleported (unknowingly) right into the half-orc barracks, giving Thifirane and her guests plenty of time to fully prepare for battle and beeing trapped within the house.
The encounter was really tough for me and my players, it lastet for over 15 rounds (and two game sessions), in the end there one PC was dead, one was polymorphed into a chicken, Thifirane and the vampire escaped (Thifirane tried to take the chicken with her, but the player did his save well... it would have been funny, but it would have complicated a lot).All in all this encounter was the most challenging to prepare in my whole career and i´m glad to be done with it.
Now i´m preparing the Valanthru encounter and don´t really know how to handle the doors. (There is no rogue in the team)
Now i´m preparing the Valanthru encounter and don´t really know how to handle the doors. (There is no rogue in the team)
I posted some tips in this thread.
Maybe there is something you can use