RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Starting a Rotr game and one of my players wants to play a psionic warrior? Does or can the Rotr campaign handle or designed for psionic characters? How could I incorporate them into the game?
It's been explained in earlier posts (though you have to dig for them), but no, Pathfinder was not designed with psionics in mind. However, psionics CAN be supported, and might be in the future, as they are OGL.
Alot of the rules, such as interaction with magic, and roleplay features will depend on you. I'm having the same problem myself in my PbP.
One suggestion, roleplay wise, is connect psionics to the god of knowledge, who happens to be a monkish god, which smacks of Zuoken. Kinda.
My players are playing goblins, and since there's a dearth of stuff logically available to them I'm allowing them to take psionic tattoos, which the goblins call "power ink". I figure that there are a couple of blues among the tribes who can do that.
I'm currently working on unofficially "psionic-izing" Burnt Offerings right now. It was something I hoped to do with Savage Tide, bit off more than I could chew trying to also "Incarnum-ize" and "Tome of Magic-ize" it as well. Never got past the Player's Guide and first adventure.
With Pathfinder, I think I'll just stick to psionics. So hopefully within a week I should post some stuff on alternate NPCs and such for running Burnt Offerings with psionics.
Again, it is entirely unofficial, however. I look forward to when they officially introduce psionics into the Pathfinder Chronicles world, but I can understand wanting to get a firm grounding before delving off into the niche and non-core.
I'll say that when I initially read about the lack of support for Psionics, that was the major reason for me to drag my heals about trying out Pathfinder. 3.5 Psionics has been the main reason for me to return to roleplaying D&D. With just the small stand-alone adventures in Dungeon, it was easy for me to perform minor alterations to put them in my campaing setting. When I was thinking about Pathfinder as a whole campaign devoid of psionics, I was frustrated to consider that I had no real time to perform a major modification to something that big. I secretly hoped it would not be so great.
Now that I have had access to the PDF and began running the campaign, I have been absolutely persuaded to continue and enjoy the Pathfinder ROTR AP by the creative story and sheer enthusiasm of every word. Every aspect to this game has been miraculous and stunning. I even had fun singing the Goblin Song for my wife, and Psionics seemed to drift out of my consciousness until I came across this thread.
I understand that, lack of Psionics aside, the effort involved with Pathfinder must be truly epic. I think as it is, I feel those working on Pathfinder seem to constantly be achieving results beyond anyone's expectations, and I look forward to subsequent issues and will embrace them whole hog regardless of the presence of Psionics.
Awed by the product Paizo has produced, I would feel presumptious and rude to ask them to consider Psionics in the future, but its inclusion in some form would make something I've come to appreciate and enjoy even better.
Contributor
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Awed by the product Paizo has produced, I would feel presumptious and rude to ask them to consider Psionics in the future, but its inclusion in some form would make something I've come to appreciate and enjoy even better.
The first time (or several times?) you see psionics in Golarion it won't be in Pathfinder, I reckon. Modules and campaign setting books will probably be the introductory vehicles.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I've not delved into RotR much yet, but I'd guess the first, and most obivious, option would be to switch out any goblin mages for blues with levels of psion/wilder.
Though, now the idea of a goblin soulknife with a psionic dog slicer amuses me to no end.
Personally ever since 3.0 and sunless citadel I've envisioned goblins and kobolds being natural enemies. sorcerers vs psions and all that.
Psionics DO exist in Golarion, but as most of R&D doesn't like them they don't get any luvvins.
I personally feel the 3.5 psionic system is better than the magic system. With the ability for the manifester [caster] to improve their manifested ability on the fly simply by pushing more psionic points into it, it just seemed more realistic. I never have understood why people don't like them, I wouldn't mind the whole magic system being revamped to work more like psionics (no hate mail please) ;)
As a DM who has psionics and magic in the same campaign I offer the following advice.
1> Decide up front is Magic and Psionics are the same or not, ie. does dispel magic also dispel psionics, and vice versa. This is the simplest, if you make them different, psionics actually become much more powerful (being 'immune' to magic effects)
2> Be prepared to spend extra time creating psionic creatures and foes. There just aren't alot of psionic creatures, so you will have to go the extra effort to create the ocassional psionic foe and psionic based treasure as well.
3> Understand the psionic rules and manifester abilities well enough so that you don't have to look up something every time. The other players may grow tired of this if the psionic constantly slows down the game.
(NOTE: Since a psionic characters can pour alot of their power into a short burst, it is tempting to have an NPC go all out using every last dreg of psionic power at the start of a fight against the PCs. For realism, even an NPC might want to hold back so they have something for after the fight. I find it best to limit my psionic NPCs to 1/3 to 1/2 of their psionic points unless it is clear they are going to die, at which point they don't hold back.)
Hope that might help
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Psionics DO exist in Golarion, but as most of R&D doesn't like them they don't get any luvvins.
I think you should send those R&D people into time-out, Mike. :)
One of my players asked if he could play a psionic character in the upcoming RotRL campaign. I responded by letting him borrow my copy of the XPH. :) He's tentatively settled on a human psychic warrior, possibly of Shoanti descent, that wields a large greatsword.
I'm a huge fan of psionics (especially as presented in the XPH), so that made me a happy little DM. :)
Creative Director
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Psionic characters are fine in Rise of the Runelords... as long as the GM knows what he's getting in to. The fact that psionic characters can expend all of their power in one blast (effectively) means that they can blow the hell out of encounters and then end up having nothing left and so the party rests after one, maybe two encounters, and suddenly the psionic character never really has to face the disadvantages of using his points up all at once, which makes him WAY too powerful.
IF, on the other hand, every PC is a psionic character, and you're used enough to dealing with psionics that you can up the challenges in the adventure as appropriate... go for it!
OH! One more thing... remember that goblins are afraid of writing, so a goblin that gets tattoos of runes or words on his skin is probably a goblin that other goblins would be VERY afraid of. The human analogy would probably be a person who wears people-skin clothes, I guess.
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Psionic characters are fine in Rise of the Runelords... as long as the GM knows what he's getting in to. The fact that psionic characters can expend all of their power in one blast (effectively) means that they can blow the hell out of encounters and then end up having nothing left and so the party rests after one, maybe two encounters, and suddenly the psionic character never really has to face the disadvantages of using his points up all at once, which makes him WAY too powerful.
First don't forget the 'can't put more power points into a power than you have manifester level'
and also, the same could be said about the wizard who blows all his magic missiles in the first encounter.
A 1st level wilder isn't any more powerful than a 1st level warlock, a psion's only advantage over the wizard is the spont casting, but James you think wizards are teh suck anyway.
Here's what I've sketched out for players interested in bringing some OGL psionics to my table. Obviously, this is all completely unofficial, but I figured posters/GMs might be interested. I apologize in advance for any and all spelling errors.
OGL stuff -
(Note, I'm only dealing with base classes and races w/o a level adjustment)
Elan -
Racial Origin:
ago, but some survived, sealed away in small, forgotten research facility in the Mindspin Mountains, some distance northwest of Janderhoff, kept alive via specialized temporal stasis chambers.
With the re-awakening of the Runelord of Greed, the Research facility, which was tied to a small powersource tied to ancient Thassalionian Rune Magic, briefly flared to life, the Elan contained within began to slowly awaken, however the surge of rune magic energy interacted unexpectedly with the magic maintaining the existing temporal stasis chambers, and produced a massive backlash that utterly destroyed the power source. The mishap destroyed several key runes needed to power the stasis chambers, resulting in the deaths of several Elan. The survivors, approximately 400 or so individuals, found themselves in a strange land, with no memory of themselves or their past, possessing strange powers and speaking a forgotten tongue (Elan can speak Thassilionian, but are illiterate in that language.)
(Note: This is read/given to the player(s) playing an Elan)
Your people awoke inside a strange and terrible place, deep within the Mindspin Mountains, about 5 years ago. You found yourself in a strange land, speaking a language that you could not recall learning, and possessing powers you could not understand or explain. Your people emerged from a smoke and fire filled cave into an arid mountain valley. You discovered arable land and a series of small ponds, lakes and mountain streams near by. Not knowing what else to your people attempted to make a life for themselves in this strange, new land.
After some weeks, a small scouting party from Janderhoff discovered you, and though you could not communicate verbally, you attempted to establish communications and trade. A wandering scholar from Korvasa accompanied the dwarves and recognized the language you spoke. In the years since that first meeting, your people have established three small farming communities. You have learned the common tongue of Varisia. The dwarves named your people "Elan" (which means "non-dwarven child" in the dwarven tongue.) The wandering scholar has stayed with your people, looking to help your recover your forgotten past. Many Elan have left the villages, trying to discover who, or what they are, for while you are ignorant of your past, you are very aware that you are not human (no matter how similar you appear to that race.)
Few Elans have ventured into the caverns from which your people emerged five years ago, and none have returned. Most believe it to be an evil and cursed place, but are unwilling to travel too far away from their only connection to their mysterious past.
This is given to players playing dwarven PCs:
While the dwarves og Janderhoff know there is something bizarre about the so-called Elan, they have not done much to publicize their find. The three existing Elan villages have a client-farmer relationship with Janderhoff, supplying needed foodstuffs and textiles in return for payment of past debts.
Everyone else:
An "Elan" is just an odd looking human, somewhat resembling a Chelaxian, with a very odd accent.
Maenad -
The Maenad are a rather insular Parisian clan, know for their dour and clannish ways. They keep their psionic heritage a secret as much as possible, and explain away any occurrence as stemming from "the Power of the Blood."
Xephs -
Xephs are wanderers from the southern land of Tian Xia.
Classes:
The newly formed schools of Philosophy in Almas have attracted many would-be students of the mind, and a small academy of psions has formed in recent months.
Among the newly awoken Elan, psions and psi warriors are common, and the occasional soulknife can be found as well.
Some adherents of Irori also study the inner workings of the mind and many pursue the psionic arts as psions and psi-warriors. As the faithful of Irori say, "The body is the mind made flash; the mind, the body made sublime."
The elves of Merani also occasionally dabble in psionic studies, manifested as a small, but rich tradition of psions.
Wilders are rare, but can be found among any of the races of Varisia, but the highest concentration are found among the Maenad clan of the Varisians.
The most common source of Soulknives in Varisia are adepts from the secretive Sczani subculture, but soulknives can also be found in various Varisian clans and as travellers from far off Tian Xia.
For classes presented in Complete Psionics, I figure Ardents come from the philosopher-salons of Almas, Divine Minds are iterant missionaries, devoted to some Galorian deity, and Lurks are a specially-trained caste within the Sczani.
That sounds cool, F33b! I particularly enjoyed the bit on the Elan.
I would recommend the above link for any a "psionics is broken" reference. If the lack of support for psionics is merely from a misunderstanding of them, then I'd be a bit annoyed.
Any power user has their limited load of powers they can use per day, and the original design intended for multiple encounters per day for all classes. (As the saying goes, no rest for the wicked.) In the first part of Burnt Offerings, those playing Seoni and Kyra had their spells wisely rationed out for all of the initial goblin encounters. The final encounter with the mounted Goblin would have been much more devastating should all of the spells have been squandered with just the initial encounter.
As a DM, I'd discourage any player attitude of requesting a full day's rest just because they blew their wad on some random encounter regardless if they were an arcane caster, divine caster, or psionicist. Whoever plays Seoni must absolutely be careful since she's horrible in melee at first level, and she's *not* a psionicist.
OH! One more thing... remember that goblins are afraid of writing, so a goblin that gets tattoos of runes or words on his skin is probably a goblin that other goblins would be VERY afraid of. The human analogy would probably be a person who wears people-skin clothes, I guess.
I was specifically going for tattoos rather than scrolls for this very reason. Here's how the SRD describes them:
A typical psionic tattoo is a colorful pattern of tiny, interlacing lines within a larger design. This design can be as simple as a circle or a star, or as complex as an artist wishes to make it. Once it is scribed, a tattoo’s design does not change. A psionic tattoo usually covers an area of skin no more than 5 inches in diameter (larger ones could be designed, but would have no added effect).
So I'll be sure to point this out to the players, in case they want to be intimidating. They're not going to understand runes anyway though; I've said that any class taken by a goblin automatically gains the illiteracy class feature (as per barbarian), and I've forbidden classes that have spellbooks. Besides, I'm not giving them access to any tattoo artists willing to do runes or words.
Good point, though! Thanks for commenting on my goblin game. :)
Maenad -
The Maenad are a rather insular Parisian clan, know for their dour and clannish ways. They keep their psionic heritage a secret as much as possible, and explain away any occurrence as stemming from "the Power of the Blood."
Who loves spell check? That should be
Maenad -
The Maenad are a rather insular Varisian clan, know for their dour and clannish ways. They keep their psionic heritage a secret as much as possible, and explain away any psionic occurrence as stemming from "the Power of the Blood."
Apologies to the French.
Psionic characters are fine in Rise of the Runelords... as long as the GM knows what he's getting in to. The fact that psionic characters can expend all of their power in one blast (effectively) means that they can blow the hell out of encounters and then end up having nothing left and so the party rests after one, maybe two encounters, and suddenly the psionic character never really has to face the disadvantages of using his points up all at once, which makes him WAY too powerful.
This is yet another reason why I like the timeline style of GMing. If the PCs want to rest up and give the bad guys time to advance their schemes then let them. :)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Psionic characters are fine in Rise of the Runelords... as long as the GM knows what he's getting in to. The fact that psionic characters can expend all of their power in one blast (effectively) means that they can blow the hell out of encounters and then end up having nothing left and so the party rests after one, maybe two encounters, and suddenly the psionic character never really has to face the disadvantages of using his points up all at once, which makes him WAY too powerful.
*beats Mr. Jacobs with the metacap*
When I finally get my print copy I'll take a psionic pen to it and post my suggestions.
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As a DM, I'd discourage any player attitude of requesting a full day's rest just because they blew their wad on some random encounter regardless if they were an arcane caster, divine caster, or psionicist.
As a DM, I do the same. First, I try to remind them that the rest of the world isn't just sitting still while they play house and make smores. If they insist, I typically laugh at them with the Evil DM Laugh™ and then show them why resting up after each encounter can have Bad Consequences through various means.
As a DM, I do the sameI try to remind them that the rest of the world isn't just sitting still while they play house and make smores. If they insist, I typically laugh at them with the Evil DM Laugh™ and then show them why resting up after each encounter can have Bad Consequences through various means.
Agreed, though I rarely give them the courtesy hint of an Evil DM Laugh™. I just cheerfully allow them to rest up, then I advance the plot by a day.
(My players know me well enough that this isn't as mean as it sounds--they expect this sort of thing of me.)
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The easiest psionic insertion would be to change Gresgurt from The Monster in the Closet (pgs 16-18) from a Ranger 1 to a Blue Goblin Soulknife 1.
This way the little boy's story about a Blue Goblin with a glowing "Dogslicer" sounds even more like a kid's story.
You can bump him up to 2nd level to let him Throw his Mind Blade to up the threat level to the PCs. You could even change his Wild Talent feat to Hidden Talent and give him one first level power he can use three times.
This would work best depending on just how many PCs are involved in this encounter.
Considering that this encounter is designed to make Goblins more a threat and less comic relief, imagine an encounter with a strange blue goblin that creates a blade in his hands with a thought and then throws at the PCs, only to disappear and reappear back in the goblin's hands.
{Insert Rat Bastard DM's laugh here}
The easiest psionic insertion would be to change Gresgurt from The Monster in the Closet (pgs 16-18) from a Ranger 1 to a Blue Goblin Soulknife 1.
This way the little boy's story about a Blue Goblin with a glowing "Dogslicer" sounds even more like a kid's story.
You can bump him up to 2nd level to let him Throw his Mind Blade to up the threat level to the PCs. You could even change his Wild Talent feat to Hidden Talent and give him one first level power he can use three times.
This would work best depending on just how many PCs are involved in this encounter.
Considering that this encounter is designed to make Goblins more a threat and less comic relief, imagine an encounter with a strange blue goblin that creates a blade in his hands with a thought and then throws at the PCs, only to disappear and reappear back in the goblin's hands.
{Insert Rat Bastard DM's laugh here}
That does sound very zesty.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Unfortunately making gresgurt a soulknife kind of kills the encounter... he only has an improvised knife and that's why it takes him a couple days to overcome his fear of the dog. If he were a soulknife he would've been out of there long before.
Now as for PsyWars in RotR, they shouldn't be anymore problematic than a paladin or ranger. They're a martial class who'll have at best 4 powers by the end of Burnt Offerings??? 1st level PsyWar powers are tasty, but not overpowered especially because you can only augment them so much.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Unfortunately making gresgurt a soulknife kind of kills the encounter... he only has an improvised knife and that's why it takes him a couple days to overcome his fear of the dog. If he were a soulknife he would've been out of there long before.
I was looking at that myself. I think the best plot device is to give him 0 PP and not been able to sleep 8 hours to regain them. No PP = No mindblade.
Then he uses an improvised knife to kill the dog, feasts (shades of goblyns) on daddy, gets his focus back. Party encounters him "He's unarmed, grab him!" forms soulknife, maybe dazes someone, party panics...