Positve comments about 4th ed?
It's very unlikely that anyone will be killed by using this product in the approved way.
DDO might get good enough to be playable with a new rule set.
A slight segue, but the news about 4th Ed. really reminds me of ShadowBane, but without all the crashing.
4th ed. gives me something to spend money on next year if my favorite writers aren't being prolific enough and if no good video games are out.
*Looks for mop to clean up pool of sarcasm*
4th ed. has also caused lots of gamers to react, producing more material to read and comment on here at paizo.com.
*Looks for bucket to start bailing out from lake of sarcasm*
In all seriousness, yes, the idea that the weapon you wield gives you different skill sets (however they're doing it) is cool.
On the other hand-
*Gets washed away by tsunami of own sarcasm*
I think Robin Laws hit it on the nose, as he so often does. "Heinsoo, Wyatt, Mearls" really is about the most positive thing anybody can say about 4e at this time, and it's not easy to come out with something more positive than that.
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I think Robin Laws hit it on the nose, as he so often does. "Heinsoo, Wyatt, Mearls" really is about the most positive thing anybody can say about 4e at this time, and it's not easy to come out with something more positive than that.
Of course, if you quote the whole passage..."All I have to say is: “Heinsoo. Wyatt. Mearls*. It will rock, end of story.”" you realize that Laws is actually pretty excited about what these folks can do with the game.
Here's what I'm looking forward to from 4th (based on what I've read so far):
1) Better resource management - i.e. no camping because the cleric has run out of spells. The reserve feats in some of the supplements address this in 3.5, but they are a sloppy, tacked on implementation.
2) Class abilities > Items - a character is more than the collection of the goodies they've accumulated.
3) Racial abilities - the idea of your race making a difference past level one is great.
The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the streamlining of the skill system if they go as far as Saga. I don't mind eliminating useless or redundant skills (i.e. Hide/Move Silently, Use Rope), but I don't like the flat modifier and skill trees from Saga.
Personally, I'm going to bust my butt to get on the playtesting of 4E (and will probably test it by converting GameMastery mods) so that I can get an early taste of this puppy.
Rob
I think like most WotC products, at the conceptual level, 4th ed. sounds interesting. It's in the execution of the product that "interesting" often turns into "dogpile."
If I have any hesitations about 4th ed., they are based on the undertones in the previews. While they say simplified and streamlined in reference to the rules, if you really dig deep into structure they describe, the impression is that bookkeeping will be increased Nth-fold.
My question becomes: when I sit down to play 4th ed. D&D, will I feel like I'm playing a game, or like I'm filing taxes?...
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I think there is always going to be fear, apprehension and trepidation when a new version of D&D comes out. It happened when we went to 2E (I remember - I was one of the people saying how much I HATED 2E at the time), it happened when going to 3E, even to some extent with 3.5.
However, it seems to me there was always one thing that seemed to keep us (well, most of us :) off the proverbial ledge ...
Dragon magazine.
How many of us would read each new issue of Dragon during an impending edition shift and pour over the advanced info, the sneak peaks etc? It was reassuring to see that, no matter what, Dragon was still there and, more importantly, it was a great place to stay informed about the new edition.
With 4E, however, Wizards has changed that dynamic and I can't help but wonder if they REALLY understood what impact that would have,
Somehow, I can't help but think that if they had NOT pulled the license from Dragon (and Dungeon) many of us might be reacting differently about this announcement. We probably would still have some trepidation like during past edition changes but there might not have been such a WOTC backlash. Somehow, if we knew that in the coming months, we would be reading "Countdown to 4E" articles and previews in Dragon, 4E might be viewed as less of a potentially Bad Thing ...
Of course, WOTC did kill Dragon and Dungeon, so this is all just theory, but it's interesting to imagine how differently the 4E announcement would be playing out right now if things had been different ...
Just one observation on this DnD Insider/virtual map thingy.
Will everyone at the virtual table need to be a subscriber? Or will the DM be able to invite guests? If yes, then this whole concept will copperfasten the exclusion of new players as well as piss off older players who will feel like they're being milked hard.
I think WotC saw one too many of those projector gaming websites where a DM can, inside the computer and using a projector, set up the adventure graphically and reveal what the players explore as they explore it. Unfortunately, from the movies I've seen, their character pieces hop too far and reveal too much too quickly, as only a hand-moved miniature and subsequent revealed areas can achieve. I do give them props for trying, though. I plan on buying a projector soon and giving this 4e style of "reveal" gaming a try for myself. I was going to anyway before 4e came on scene.
Now, to be fair, as much as I'm anti-WotC/Hasbro these days, and would steadfastly refuse to spend money on this 6th edition of the game even if I weren't, I have made inquiries, as an RPGA member, about playtesting opportunities for 4E.
Mind you, I don't expect to hear back any time soon (I'm still waiting on a response to a simple RPGA question I emailed them 3 weeks ago), but I figure the best way to be pro or con regarding the rules set they'll put out is to know it's details.
"Heinsoo, Wyatt, Mearls"
I'm excited about 4th ed. Above and beyond all else, they've promised to make the adventuring day last longer than the 15 minutes it takes the 3e wizard to burn through all his spells.
Of course, I've also had a lot of fun playing 3 versions of basic D&D, 1st ed AD&D, AD&D per Unearthed Arcana, 2nd Ed, 2nd Ed/Skills and Powers, 3rd Ed, 3.5 Ed, and a homebrewed fantasy version of Alternity. They've all had something new and good to offer in their day.
(I do hope, however, that it will be easy to port over 3rd ed adventures to 4th ed. I've got a huge catalog of adventures to try out, as I've just finished a 3-year hiatus from D&D for job training reasons, and in that time the very shortest list of must-run adventures I've accumulated has included 3 adventure paths, as well as Expeditions to Ravenloft, Greyhawk, and a Kobold King's lair.)
I think Robin Laws hit it on the nose, as he so often does. "Heinsoo, Wyatt, Mearls" really is about the most positive thing anybody can say about 4e at this time, and it's not easy to come out with something more positive than that.
Woah! Robin D. Laws is probably my favorite single writer when it comes to sophisticated RPG gaming. And if he approves of the team leading 4ed, then I know I have nothing to worry about...
Seriously, all the issues and concerns that the 4e team are addressing have been almost the same exact concerns that I have with the current game. I've been subscribed to Dragon & Dungeon since 3.0, and their "digital initiative" is actually sounding 'cheaper' than the subscriptions. That's a good thing for me.
Since on the note of D&D Insider & the "digital initiative", i've always been a digital DM. I've used a laptop since 2e. I prefer making 3e characters with PCGen or that excel sheet thing. I've also dabbled with online table-tops, such as OpenRPG and some other one (with little success). I use random dungeon, character & treasure generators all the time. I keep illegal PDF copies on my keychain (no, i don't ever sell or give them away). The digital step is a smart one. I don't play MMOs, and I doubt I'll ever take my weekly game online. It just doesn't appeal to me. But I am excited about the tools and resources. I download the web-enhancements all the time. My games are coordinated via email, and we keep a running log of games, characters & other things on a WIKI. The digital initiative plans to consolidate these things FOR US. That's a good thing. It is clearly not designed to monopolize it. There will always be "better" 3rd party tools available online. Seriously, I see 4e as a really good thing.
FYI, I've been playing since 1979, with the Blue-ish box, then the red basic set, then AD&D 1e, all the way up to 3.5. I will also move to 4e, as will most of us. Especially those that enjoy organized play, such as RPGA.
I for one am really excited about 4e. Especially if it makes combat quicker, and record keeping and character generating easier.
I think it would be fun to get an online game going with some Paizo peeps. PbP is all well and good, but it stretches out forever, and doesn't really capture the quick back-and-forth of a tabletop session.
Here her I second that.