RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Reposted from another unrelated thread:
after all, we already have at least 3 if not 4 laptops on the table while we game, why not continue the trend?
I'm beginning to wonder... am I the only DM would finds this practice absolutely infuriating? I have 3 players who bring their laptops to the gaming table and I always, always have to tell them to put the damn things away when we're playing. I don't want a bunch of big freaking techboxes eating up tabletop real estate when I'm trying to run a game. I especially hate it when they actually try to use the computer while we're in the middle of something. Whether it be playing a MUD, talking to someone on AIM, or checking e-mail, it still pisses me off. We spend roughly 12 hours a week gaming (2 games of roughly 6 hours each). That leaves 156 other perfectly good hours during the week that you can spend doing such things.
Yeah I pretty much like a low tech environment for gaming. I've done the video before but it just doesn't feel the same. I play pencil and paper for a reason, to enteract with actual people.
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I am with you Fate. I think a PnP game should be Pen and Paper. I don't want to play the game using my laptop, I don't wanna run the game using my laptop. If I want to do this on the computer, then I would do it sitting home with a bunch of people I never met and play. I get together with people to have some up-close social interaction. People can play poker on the net but most still choose to get together and play their weekly poker games.
We should all just lock our house doors, have everything delivered to us via a small slot in the door, pay everything online, telecommute and avoid all social interactions at every cost.
I don't wanna be a hermit.
FH
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Most gamers are very intelligent, imaginative males. This means that most gamers are textbook cases for AD/HD.
+ Laptops are bright, shiny objects that beg for your attention.
= Bad combination.
Heh. Two of my laptop users are intelligent, imaginative females however. Does that mess with your demographics? :P
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Heh. Two of my laptop users are intelligent, imaginative females however. Does that mess with your demographics? :PMost gamers are very intelligent, imaginative males. This means that most gamers are textbook cases for AD/HD.
+ Laptops are bright, shiny objects that beg for your attention.
= Bad combination.
Well, my wife is the smartest, most ADD person I know, so the XX contingent isn't immune!
I just got my laptop and have found it extremley useful as a DMing aid. One of my players also recently got his laptop and used it during our last session and it was bugging the crap out of me. He seemed to be suffering from screen hypnosis and once before he was playing solitaire while we were playing D&D. I think I may have to ban the use of laptops at the table by players. They're great for a DM though.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I just got my laptop and have found it extremley useful as a DMing aid. One of my players also recently got his laptop and used it during our last session and it was bugging the crap out of me. He seemed to be suffering from screen hypnosis and once before he was playing solitaire while we were playing D&D. I think I may have to ban the use of laptops at the table by players. They're great for a DM though.
As a DMing aid, I can agree... to an extent. The DM should keep the laptop off the table (perhaps on a chair next to him) and only bring it out to show players pictures, text, or other relevant info. If you need to glance down to check your campaign notes, that's fine, just keep it off the table unless it's actively being used to show the entire group something.
Yeah, I stick it a TV tray like thing on the couch. I keep a lot of my notes on there (since I sometimes can't read my own handwriting) and maps and such.
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I write the adventures I run using OpenOffice Writer and I really like having the Hypertext SRD up when I'm running a game. I find that having a good search function available to me can really speed up a game.
As to distraction, a laptop is really no worse than knitting, needlepoint, crocheting, or kids running in with skinned knees. (All of which are also common features at my table.)
If my players were playing WoW at the table, I'd probably feel rather differently.
I've tried using a laptop at the gaming table, and I found that it slowed down my game more than speeding it up.
I have another player who uses one from time to time to keep track of his spells.
I am one of those "no books open at the table" DM's as well though, so I think the same would apply to laptops.
I can see where this would get annoying, but I've actually been planning on using a laptop for some time now... But I have validating reasons.
One - I'm getting a tablet. I can then open a character sheet file and use the stylus. Essentially, keeping it a pen and paper event and allowing me quick access to different character sheets. Plus, whenever I concoct a new character idea or concept, I can create new characters quickly without having to scrounge for blank sheets or burn through my printer paper/ink.
Two - When my turn to DM comes around, I'm going to swipe everyone's sheets for a time, and digitize their PC data for future/emergency use. How many times has a game been delayed due to forgotten/lost/non-updated sheets? No more I say! >.<
Three - When I game, that's all I'm thinking about/focusing on. I love to game. The only thing that can distract me from gaming is more gaming, so sidebar conversations have a greater need to be banned then laptops (for me at least ^ ^).
-Kurocyn
I think their great. Laptops get used for recording treasure (on a spread sheet), for some aspects of arguing about how they are going to divy up treasure (again a spread sheet) and a couple of them are tuned into the Hypertext SRD site (ability to find rules quickly). The important aspect for me is that the lap tops are focused on the game itself. So far the lap tops themselves have not proven a distraction (sometimes other things have - kitty cats are particularly good at this) but I could easily see banning them if they did become one.
am I the only DM would finds this practice absolutely infuriating? I have 3 players who bring their laptops to the gaming table and I always, always have to tell them to put the damn things away when we're playing.
Know what I find infuriating? Pencils. Players constantly twirling them, dropping them on the floor, doodling when they should be paying attention. And don't even get my started on DICE!
Sarcasm aside, tools are only as good as the people using them. Laptop at the game table can greatly speed up play. I'm biased though since I write a dm tool to be used at the game table.
The laptop greatly improved the speed of our game! Although I have to say I would like to remain the only one with such a thing at the table. SRD is way more handy than PHB, MM and DMG IMHO! With Pathfinder hopefully available in PDF soon there is another reason to use one. Actually much more room on my side of the screen.
But I am quite sceptic about the increase of tech at the table due to 4E, but we will see what it is all about.
Of the four players at the table, 2 of them bring laptops to the game, and a third (me) had brought a laptope a few times.
Person #1- Brings the laptop in lieu of books - he has everything in .pdf format. He also uses it occasionaly for his character sheet. It hasn't been to distracting overall.
Person #2- Brings laptop exclusively as the character sheet. Hasn't been distracting at all.
Person #3 (me)- Brought a laptop to use as a character sheet. I didn't want to use a laptop, but I was forced to do so. I was playing a Half Orc Barbarian with a variety of Strength modifying abilities and items, and I got hit with strength-draining poison. I threw in the towel; I was there to play a game, not crunch numbers all night. Enter Excel.
As it stands, its almost a requirement to have a character sheet in Excel format beyond, say, 12th level. Thats a statement to the ridiculous complexity of 3.5.
Where do you find the pdf's of the sourcebooks?
Other than the DM using software such as Turn Watcher, mapping/tile programs or pdfs, i really don't think laptops belong at the gaming table. With that said, as a DM i don't actually own a laptop, and the only player who regularly brings his pretty much only uses it for refrencing pdfs from third party publishers.
Here at home on my desktop, I have a plethora of third party pdfs purchased from 3rd party publishers downloaded from here as well as places like EnWorld. So, I am totaly into tech for the game, but not sure it belongs at the table in all its force and glory (read; MAJOR DISTRACTION).
Where do you find the pdf's of the sourcebooks?
Wizards sells PDFs of many of the books (other than core and the most recent) through http://www.drivethrurpg.com .
I use two wikis--a DM-Wiki and a Player-Wiki, to organize my campaign. The DM wiki contains, obviously, all the spoilers for the campaign and I don't share that link with my players (it's also basic authed to keep everyone but me out). The Player-Wiki is something that the players have complete access to. I also ask my players to keep their character sheets there as well.
So, I do allow laptop access, but I ask that my players only use things like the SRD, PDFs, the Player-Wiki, Excel, etc.. Having said that, my players *still* find things to fidget with during slow parts of the game. But at least I have their attention (mostly). :-)
I use my laptop regularly to run my game--I need access to my DM wiki, plus I use Turn Watcher (http://www.turnwatcher.com/) as well (okay, so I'm biased--I wrote the application). However, I also like to keep a single page "cheat sheet" on a clip board with the vital gaming stats on it for quick reference. I do *not* like having my nose in the laptop because as soon as I do that, I lose my players' attention. I only go to the laptop during encounters to use Turn Watcher to update the next character turn, manage running effects and damage. Doing this is pretty quick, so I don't keep my attention rivetted on my laptop for long.
My wife, who plays in my game as well, prints out her character sheet, and puts her spells on the back of the sheet, including DCs and everything pre-calculated--this keeps the game running faster since I don't have to look up the spell when she wants to cast it.
I guess I do a sort of balancing act between computer and paper, but I find the computer is just another tool, not a replacement for a full DM's attention. Otherwise you might as well play an online game. :-)
Other than the DM using software such as Turn Watcher, mapping/tile programs or pdfs, i really don't think laptops belong at the gaming table. With that said, as a DM i don't actually own a laptop, and the only player who regularly brings his pretty much only uses it for refrencing pdfs from third party publishers.
Here at home on my desktop, I have a plethora of third party pdfs purchased from 3rd party publishers downloaded from here as well as places like EnWorld. So, I am totaly into tech for the game, but not sure it belongs at the table in all its force and glory (read; MAJOR DISTRACTION).
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I find laptops at the game table distasteful. They give the impression of inattention and rob the game of its more organic, imaginative elements. I had a GM who used to display pictures of NPCs and monsters rather than describe them, or stop game to scroll through large amounts of supplemental information rather than just wing it. I think he thought this made him looked prepared.
The new tech savvy approach Wizards is pushing with 4e seems really dorky. In this hobby that's an accomplishment.
With all due respect, and I know this will come off as a flame (but its not), the future is electronic, plain and simple.
4e is just the tip of the iceberg. One month ago I predicted the end of paper and pencil as we know it today - and of course I was called an idiot. Its not gone yet, but 4e is a step in that direction.
Paper and pencil becoming obsolete is a matter of IF, not WHEN.
* Note I have not identified a time-table for this transition; While I am alive, I will use dice unless something better is available. But I will not be alive forever, and my children and my children's children will become less and less interested in the archaic version of the game I play, opting instead for interactive graphics and a first-person perspective of the same game we play today.
I had a GM who used to display pictures of NPCs and monsters rather than describe them, or stop game to scroll through large amounts of supplemental information rather than just wing it. I think he thought this made him looked prepared.
While I use tech at the table I think it is important for the DM to be particularly sensitive to its use. I actually don't use tech myself - I like a couple of laptops tuned to the SRD to resolve rule disputes but generally my preference is not for me to be looking up said rule. One of the players that is currently not involved in the action should be doing that - keeps them busy - while I focus on what the other players are doing.
Definitely agree that the DM in particular should be careful about getting their nose stuck in a computer screen, quick way to loose players doing that. On the other hand a DM that is shuffling papers like crazy looking for something is really not much better. In both cases the DM should try and keep on with the action usually by frantically shuffling papers while the players are doing their stuff (like arguing with each other over tactics) so that the DM is at the correct part of their notes (whether on a lap top or not) when they need the material. Good organization is a very handy DM skill.
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With all due respect, and I know this will come off as a flame (but its not), the future is electronic, plain and simple.
Almost. The future is electronics put to effective use. It's not enough to put it in a digital format. It has to increase the quality of the experience to make the effort worthwhile - the essence of good design. Technology, especially when it's applied to entertainment and communication, is a tricky enterprise. I can't remember the term, but it's something along the line of "the ergonomics of interaction".
I think you're right that this is the direction the hobby is going in, but I can't shake the feeling that Wizards has just announced the tabletop version of the Power Glove (TM).
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none of my 5 players, or myself use a laptop while we game, but I think that it has its purposes (looking up srd stuff via search function is definately faster) though it does make the looking up of the books not as much fun.
my new players of course think that the multitude of books is a pain to look through, and I would have to agree, if you are new to the game.
from that standpoint, having the laptops available for source material searches, could help new players enjoy the game, without being frustrated.
and my last Dm used his laptop for that, and the running of photoshop mapping via his overhead projector.
Personally I find manga/comic books, MP3 players and people texting on their cell phones to be a bigger headache. How I found myself DMing for a group 12 years younger than me I'm still not certain. *laughs* Perhaps it was to right the wrongs of their prior DM who claimed to have legitimately leveled up a level 88 pantheon-killer character.
But I digress...
For quite a while, I was bringing my tablet PC to use when DMing. I was tracking Wound/Vitality points in Excel and had an offline mirror of d20srd.org on there. At the time, I thought it was pretty handy until I suddenly found myself without it. For the next week, I decided to do more prep work than normal and to make up an Excel spreadsheet to hold monster stats and an MM4-style monster template in Word. After printing out one of the sheets I'd made, I realized something funny:
A 600 DPI printer has far higher resolution than a 72DPI computer screen!
Next session, I found running combat to be a world easier. I was no longer forgetting the special abilities of half the monsters because now I could see the full stats of EVERY creature all at once. Before, I had to either mess around with a magnifying tool or click on hyperlinks I'd placed in my spreadsheets and scroll thru the SRD entries one at a time (which I'd simply not do since it was time-consuming). Also,the printed charts I made for damage-tracking were faster to use than writing with the tablet's stylus OR typing into Excel.
Like a lot of people, I'd fallen into the mindset that using technology is always a better solution. In many cases, and even in my case, that still held true. However, it was far more efficient to use it for doing all the prep-work rather than on-the-fly.
Now mind You, using the laptop to reference the PDF versions of rulebooks IS very handy and does save the hassle of lugging 40 pounds of books around. I'll also freely admit that as soon as I can afford it, I intend to do the Photoshop-to-ceiling-mounted-projector trick. But again, it's a question of what is invasive to the game or what disrupts Your rhythm.
To be frank, just like with creative writing, sometimes the technology gets in the way. Being as I'm a tech by day, interacting with a computer tends to yank me out of the creative, story-telling mode of DMing and put me into a more analytical mindset. I'm sure this isn't a problem for everyone but how often have some of us found that we really don't want to see red and green underlines while pouring out our thoughts?
Want to know what's really distracting?
It's not so much when the pixie warmage's player brings her laptop and starts looking at pics of her boyfriend. It's when that self-same buxom 19 year old show up to game wearing Daisy Dukes and a tank top. Not that I would ever complain mind You... ;)
The last thing I want is for players to distract the table, or zone out with a video game, talk with friends elsewhere, or just plain not be mentally present in whatever way.
I always thought that Pencil and Paper games were actually for using pencil and paper, not computers. Although…I do use computers for pre-game uses, like dungeon creation, character generation, bookkeeping, etc. I try to limit my in-game use of these items to an absolute minimum and players are not allowed access to them in any way unless it is a bonifide emergency.
Agree with Lawgiver. I used to use a computer at the gaming table when I played 2e and all the rule books were hyperlinked when TSR/Wizards put out those big disks with all the rules on them back in the late 90's.
Now, I just use the computer for pre-game prep work, although I don't have a problem with players taking notes on their palm pilots or blackberries, since they're small and enable them to type up their game journals as we play.
My 8 year old Pocket PC is down for "maintenance" right now, but I'll probably start using it again for in-game notes only, as my handwriting is terrible.