RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
I had an idea for a feat that might be kind of handy and thought I'd throw it up here to see if people thought it was good, bad, or ugly. Take a gander:
Fell Strike
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +5, Combat Reflexes
Benefit: Anytime you reduce a foe to fewer than 0 hit points with a melee attack, you may immediately make an additional melee attack against that foe with your highest attack bonus and gain an additional +4 on the attack roll.
The feat is designed to deal with those pesky critters who regenerate quickly or have backup healers on hand to quickly rescue them from the negative hit point threshold. This feat basically dooms anyone your character manages to disable and prevents enemies who drop into negatives from 'bouncing back.' Thoughts? Too narrow to be useful? Too powerful?
hmm; kindof a attack of oppurtunity that allows a coup de gras attack?
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
It's not actually a 'coup de grace' by the rules. A coup de grace is a full round action by RAW, but it automatically hits and automatically crits, forcing the character to make a Fort save (DC = damage taken by the coup de grace) or die. However, a coup de grace can be used against any helpless character, not just one that has been reduced to negative hit points.
This feat basically allows you to smack somebody that you've already dropped below 0 HP as a free action with the intent of skipping the whole 'stabilization' phase entirely and dropping them straight to -10 with a successful hit.
I like it, but I beleive it should eat up your attack of opportunity (or rather one of them given the prerequisite). Otherwise I like it; kind of like a sinister cleave.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Do you think that it would be better, then, if the description was changed from this:
...you may immediately make an additional melee attack against that foe with your highest attack bonus and gain an additional +4 on the attack roll...
To this:
...you may take an attack of opportunity against that foe with an additional +4 on the attack roll...
?
I agree with Black Baron's little edit. It needs to take one of the AoOs.
Otherwise, I think this is a cool feat. Though I think the feat itself should just be called "FINISH HIM!" :D
Do you think that it would be better, then, if the description was changed from this:
...you may immediately make an additional melee attack against that foe with your highest attack bonus and gain an additional +4 on the attack roll...To this:
...you may take an attack of opportunity against that foe with an additional +4 on the attack roll...?
That sounds good to me.
Do you think that it would be better, then, if the description was changed from this:
...you may immediately make an additional melee attack against that foe with your highest attack bonus and gain an additional +4 on the attack roll...To this:
...you may take an attack of opportunity against that foe with an additional +4 on the attack roll...?
Yeah, that sounds good to me.
Ouch... this feat is nasty! ...I like it :)
I agree with the change of wording to make it an attack of opportunity.
Was any particular reason you chose +5 for the BAB? I have trouble deciding what BAB prerequisite to use in my feats, so I was just wondering.
Seeing as people are suggesting other names for the feat, here's a couple:
And Stay Down
Finishing Blow
The only problem I see with this feat is the looks on a players face when an enemy uses it on one of them. But hey, my last PC death was via Death Knell spell.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Was any particular reason you chose +5 for the BAB? I have trouble deciding what BAB prerequisite to use in my feats, so I was just wondering.
The feat seemed a little strong to be something available at level 1 or 3 (when those -10 HP matter almost as much as your normal hit points) but it wasn't quite worth putting off more than level 5 or so. BAB +5 seems like a fairly experienced warrior type to me and it just 'felt right' for the feat's function.
|
I'd make the prereq BAB +6. This sounds like a fighter thing to me and putting it at +6 means that only pure combat classes (Ftr, Brb, Pal, Ran) could get it at 6th Lvl. Moreover, it would be VERY unlikely that a Brb, Pal or Ran would actualy pick it at 6th. They're more likely to wait until 9th Lvl if they're interested. This makes it even more exclusive to a Fighter.
-W. E. Ray
...you may take an attack of opportunity against that foe with an additional +4 on the attack roll...Is that in addition to the +4 already given on melee attacks against helpless targets?
That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that. +8 is pretty huge. Was that intentional, or an oversight?
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that. +8 is pretty huge. Was that intentional, or an oversight?...you may take an attack of opportunity against that foe with an additional +4 on the attack roll...Is that in addition to the +4 already given on melee attacks against helpless targets?
No, it's intentional. That way, even foes with obscene amounts of armor stand a pretty fair chance of getting hacked down by this feat.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
I'd make the prereq BAB +6. This sounds like a fighter thing to me and putting it at +6 means that only pure combat classes (Ftr, Brb, Pal, Ran) could get it at 6th Lvl. Moreover, it would be VERY unlikely that a Brb, Pal or Ran would actualy pick it at 6th. They're more likely to wait until 9th Lvl if they're interested. This makes it even more exclusive to a Fighter.
Hmmm... I actually kind of like the fact that a Rogue 3/Fighter 3 could pick this feat up at level 6. Think about that juicy sneak attack against the helpless sap that you've just chopped down! The idea behind the feat is basically just all-but-guaranteeing a kill when an enemy drops below 0 HP. BAB +5 seems fine to me.
Actually, this feat is not all that powerful considering that it won't have any impact on regenerating creatures (unless dealt by something which negates DR) and is wasted against creatures without fast healing unless the PCs are worried about them being healed or something.
As an option, perhaps the feat could modify the coup de grace rule. Fell Strike or Finish Him or whatever could change a coup de grace into a standard action rather than a full-round action. It could also negate attacks of opportunity from performing a coup de grace.
Just my thoughts as I write my version of this feat up.
Thanks Fatespinner.
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
The only problem I see with this feat is the looks on a players face when an enemy uses it on one of them. But hey, my last PC death was via Death Knell spell.
Your DM rules.
I think it's fine. Very limited trigger, very limited effect on the game (9 times out of 10, that fallen opponent wasn't getting up again anyway), and, most importantly, very cool.
FRAWESS VICTORY!
The only problem I see with this feat is the looks on a players face when an enemy uses it on one of them. But hey, my last PC death was via Death Knell spell.Your DM rules.
Thanks, when I said my last PC death. I meant the last one I caused.
FRAWESS VICTORY!
*snicker*
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
As an option, perhaps the feat could modify the coup de grace rule. Fell Strike or Finish Him or whatever could change a coup de grace into a standard action rather than a full-round action. It could also negate attacks of opportunity from performing a coup de grace.
There's already a feat that does that. It's called Death Blow (I believe it's in the Complete Adventurer or the Complete Warrior). It reduces coup de grace to a standard action (but I don't think it eliminates AoOs). This feat is not about coups de grace, though, it's about making sure stuff doesn't get back up when you put it down. :) It's designed to thrwart creatures that rely on having healers to back them up and critters with Fast Healing. It is also potentially useful against regenerating creatures: Imagine that you're fighting a troll and the only guy with a flaming weapon is the rogue with Fell Strike. The party nails the troll with nonlethal damage until it's hovering just above zero. The rogue swoops it, smacks it into negatives, then finishes the job with Fell Strike before it's regeneration gets a chance to reverse more of the nonlethal damage it has taken.
As an option, perhaps the feat could modify the coup de grace rule. Fell Strike or Finish Him or whatever could change a coup de grace into a standard action rather than a full-round action. It could also negate attacks of opportunity from performing a coup de grace.There's already a feat that does that. It's called Death Blow (I believe it's in the Complete Adventurer or the Complete Warrior). It reduces coup de grace to a standard action (but I don't think it eliminates AoOs). This feat is not about coups de grace, though, it's about making sure stuff doesn't get back up when you put it down. :) It's designed to thrwart creatures that rely on having healers to back them up and critters with Fast Healing. It is also potentially useful against regenerating creatures: Imagine that you're fighting a troll and the only guy with a flaming weapon is the rogue with Fell Strike. The party nails the troll with nonlethal damage until it's hovering just above zero. The rogue swoops it, smacks it into negatives, then finishes the job with Fell Strike before it's regeneration gets a chance to reverse more of the nonlethal damage it has taken.
In the back of my mind I thought that the coup de grace feat might already exist (which is why I didn't write it up). I was just postulating other options. I have actually gone with your version, which with the small changes you have made is pretty good. I understand perfectly that it is useful against regenerating creatures though, since that's what I said too. I just said what I said so people don't think it is overpowered (which it's not unless someone can come up with a reason).
|
The party nails the troll with nonlethal damage until it's hovering just above zero. The rogue swoops it, smacks it into negatives, then finishes the job with Fell Strike before it's regeneration gets a chance to reverse more of the nonlethal damage it has taken.
That wouldn’t work.
Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. It doesn’t matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.
The party couldn’t get the troll’s HP to hover just above zero with nonlethal damage, the damage doesn’t actually reduce its HP. When the rogue swoops in and smacks it, its HP will drop below the accumulated nonlethal damage, but it won’t drop below zero. Based on the conditions listed in the feat, he wouldn’t get his AoO.
Fell Strike
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +5, Combat Reflexes
Benefit: Anytime you reduce a foe to fewer than 0 hit points with a melee attack, you may take an attack of opportunity against that foe with an additional +4 on the attack roll.
I think it's fine. Very limited trigger, very limited effect on the game (9 times out of 10, that fallen opponent wasn't getting up again anyway), and, most importantly, very cool.
Not quite: When an NPC takes it, the effect is huge: 9 times out of 10, a PC brought to negative hit points gets up again. PCs don't like death.
Not quite: When an NPC takes it, the effect is huge: 9 times out of 10, a PC brought to negative hit points gets up again. PCs don't like death.
Exactly. What's good for the PCs is also good for their opponents, and in the hands of an NPC this feat can really suck the life out of the game (or at least one PC).
Sorry, I don't like it, for that reason.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Not quite: When an NPC takes it, the effect is huge: 9 times out of 10, a PC brought to negative hit points gets up again. PCs don't like death.
Really? This hasn't been my experience. Any time a PC hits negatives beyond level 5 or so, they've almost always been killed rather nastily. Most opponents hit hard enough that the chance of bypassing the negatives entirely is very likely. I can see that this feat would be of extraordinary benefit to creatures that rely on dishing out lots of low-damage attacks as opposed to two-handed weapon users with Power Attack. Two-weapon rangers would probably like it.