Enemies of my Enemy Help (Spoilers)


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I'm was doing some prep work well in advance before my party hits this adventure and I have spotted some problem areas with Malcanthet.

Issue 1: Unless her Diplomacy is a typo, there is absolutely no way that my party (even with a Druid PC with a max rank Diplomacy) is going to have any hope of opposing her Diplomacy. And even if I beef up the party with some items which help Charisma, it still is not going to make a lick of difference. And frankly, unless other groups are playing classes or prestige classes and min/max to the nines to take advantage of Diplomacy and Charisma, I see other groups having the same issue.

Issue 2: My impression of Malcanthet is that she taking the puppetmaster role she is playing way too seriously, based on how she is written and what she attempts with the party. It even states the Malcanthet will do whatever to ensure the party plays her game and on her terms, even if it means dominating the entire group.

So, knowing my group as I do, I can see them going into the encounter with Death Ward and Circle from Protection running. Circle of Protection will not nerf the Malcanthet's Dominate ability but will prevent control. Death Ward should prevent the level drain.

Given that Malcanthet is absolutely determined the party will do what she wants, how will she react to failing to exert control on her dominate? How will she react if her kiss fails to drain 4 levels as stated? Will she take it in stride, knowing that the party are not milk sops to be bend to will of any other demon and liking the challenge that she is going to have to use subtle manuipulation to get what she wants?

Or, she is going to have a hissing fit that she failed to make an example of her absolute power over that one character (by failing to control him/her and failing to drain life levels) and looking bad in front of roomful of followers/worshippers? How bad a hissy fit? Bad enough to attack the party (seems counterprotective to do so, but she as Queen of the Succubus has failed to make an example of that character and meglomania and total chaotic evil being what they are, I can see her trying to destroy her pawns as the immediate object lesson to her court as opposed to the long term goal of bring down Demogorgon)?

Given the meglomania of Malcanthet, I can't see her congratulating the party as to their cleverness and letting the issue lie. And if she goes aggro on the party, it will get very ugly.


That "the enemy of my enemy" -concludes -is my enemy too..
Momentary cooperation may be possible, but ultimately a impossibility in the long run.

Oh, and visit the demon lords in person? Thats insanity.. such things are to be done via astral projection. Perhaps employing their ally, shami..
Speaking of whom, would her +49 in diplomacy do?
Especially with a bit dark speech thrown in..

Certainly they didn't let her go for less than a service of .. maybe 101 years? A mere blink for a immortal demonlord.
Besides that shapechange at will is awfully utilitarian as well, need a dragon mount?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Malcanthet's Diplomacy is not a typo; she's pretty good at that stuff.

She's also pretty smart, and knows about death ward AND protection from evil/mind blank. She'd assume that the PCs have those effects going before she tried to attack them in any real serious way. If she realizes she's unable to drain levels with a kiss, she'll probably just shrug that aside and grant her Queen's Kiss effects nonetheless; not being able to drain levels from the PCs is in no way a deal breaker, and it's actually the smart thing to do from the PC viewpoint.

If you're worried that, when a fight breaks out, Malcanthet won't be able to hurt the PCs... then they probably won't find Demogorgon much of a fight either, and frankly, you can probably dispense with a fair amount of "Enemies of my Enemy" since the PCs won't need to gather as huge an army.

But keep in mind that death ward and protection from evil/mind blank don't shut her down completely. Greater dispel magic can cerainly take care of some of those spell effects, but even then, many of her spell-lke abilities (blasphemy, shapechange, unholy blight, telekinesis, binding, etc.) can wreak havoc on the PCs. Her AC is obscenely high, so it'll be tough for the PCs to even hit her, while at the meantime she'll be able to more or less flank whatever foe she wants (since the room the PCs encounter her in is filled wall-to-wall with succubi and other types of Malcanthet's allies)... after going a round against a foe who has eight attacks a round and stacks +12d6 sneak attack damage on all eight, well, death ward and protection from evil won't help that much... :-)

BUT: In the end, she really does want Demogorgon to fail. She's fickle that way. As long as she thinks that the PCs come away from meeting her feel that they owe her a favor and they treat her nice... she won't mind a few death wards or mind blanks.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

One more thing. She's all about seduction. And even though she might not mean it, complimenting the PCs on coming before her well prepared with death wards and other protections is yet another way she can trick them into doing what she wants. In this case, she's not taking advantage of their lust as much as their pride. She certainly has her favorite sins, but in the end any of the seven deadlies work well enough for her if she can get the PCs to play along.

Contributor

What about the grasping hands that have a +30 grapple? On average the PCs have to overcome an opposed grapple check of 40. That's nothing to ignore. Once those hands have a hold of the PCs, Malcanthet has the party at her mercy, leaving them on the bad end of any further negotiations unless they can all cast teleport spells or have other magical means of gettin free.


Also the description points out that Malcanthet has a lot of demons present, it IS her home plane after all. It might not be the pushover your players might think.

What I'd suggest is emphasizing the diplomacy part. Forget for a moment what the writeup says and consider that while arrogant, powerful and cunning demons that are intelligent are in particular cunning above all things. It could depend a lot on your advance preparation.

I have a similar problem for when I run this one; my players are definitely good and will never make a casual or even firm bargain with a demon unless there really is no other choice--they would probably far rather it looked like they were manipulating the demon. Because of this and because Malcanthet will be more about the ends justifying the means I might recommend that it seem more like a treaty between allies--albeit one very powerful one and some slightly less powerful ones--and not a mistress and minions. If they've gotten that far then perhaps depict her as a regal if depraved and strange queen that they will want to avoid angering but who can grant them an important favour if they so choose.

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