I can not wait to see how Monte Cook does the WOD this summer!
I was reading somewhere; not sure where, else I would have provided a link, that this was going to be something completely different. Sort of like Nightbane from Palladium, only without the Nightbane themselves. Which probably would have been a better idea to begin with...
Not familiar with the Nighbane.
I have heard that the world is in chaos after an invasion of Lovecraftian bad things in Monte's World of Darkness. I also heard rumors of a d20 setting (which I would enjoy).
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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As much esteem as I have for Mr. Cook's work, I just can't bring myself to even consider a d20 WoD product. WoD is the Storytelling system for me. Give me my fistfuls of d10s, thank you very much. I refuse to have anything to do with d20 Trinity or d20 Battletech for the same reasons.
Now, if Monte decided to write a WoD supplement for the normal Storytelling system... I'd be all over it.
I agree with Heath, don't get married to the rules. I honestly feel that the Storyteller system is the hardest to run when it comes to RPGs (I ran a 1st Edition Changeling game). That being said I picked up Scion and liked what I read.
It's funny how trends come and go. When d20 hit the market it was all the rage. Now it's cool to bash d20 like it was cool to rip on TSR back in the mid 90's. World or Warcraft was a huge hit and now all the fanboys haite it. Glad I'm old and don't care about the trends.
Never say never, man. It could be the shiznit.
I have a great fondness for WOD. That being said it has always been the most difficult game for me and my group to run successfully. We have done countless d&d, superheroes, wargames, but WOD is hard (for us) to pull off a truly epic game. Perhaps we are too much of the 'd&d mindset', and maybe Cook's conversion will make it viable to me and mine.
Last Rogue you and I are on the same page!
Honestly I run a story driven role-play focused D&D game. That is not to say we don't have combat (because we sure do!) but it is character and story driven. I think the problem isn't the d20 rules it is the way people play the game (hack and slash/ kick in the door style).
I have played WoD and I love the setting but found the so open ended that it leads to conflict between the GM and Players (which I hate). As a GM I see the story one way and the player sees it another. Since the GM tells the story the player must 'play along' and in my group it didn't happen.
I bet Monte will bring balance to the system and the setting.
I'm weird in that I loved both WOD and Nightbane. The later Nightbane books got ridiculous in the stereotypical Palladium style, but the first two were a breath of fresh air considering the company they came from. I love WOD, although I tend to avoid the new versions of Werewolf, Mage, etc. for reasons both childish (Geddofamylawn! Punk kids and their newfangled Vampire!) and practical (once you start trying to improve on something you never, ever stop- the fixing the mage thread is a great example of this). I'm interested to see what Monte Cook has in store for us.
I have played WoD and I love the setting but found the so open ended that it leads to conflict between the GM and Players (which I hate).
Yeah this is exactly my point. WOD puts such an emphasis (or my group and I have interpreted it as such) on the relationships the characters build, I find it hard to get a group of them going in a certain direction. Usually they all want to find their own friends outside of the group . . .this is fun, but a strain . . .I love the concept/theme of WOD, and I love the open feel of the world, but at times it is too much .
WOD encourages this "find friends outside of the party" since most PCs play characters of different clans, factions, races, tribes.
I think Monte will do this correctly. He's been doing it all his professional career!
Monte Cook is many things, and I hold his work in great regard.
But that probably won't keep me from disliking this system.
D20 is many things... But elegant, and cinematic, are not among them.
(I often catch myself wishing that our D&D games were using Exalted rules instead...)
With all of that said, I bet it will be a great work. I mean Arcana Unearthed was a breath of fresh air for D20. So I'll wait and see how this goes.
It is also funny how so many gamers see the WoD and d20 as opposite forces. It reminds me of the gearheads in High School and the Ford vs. Chevy debate! Can't you play and enjoy both?
It is also funny how so many gamers see the WoD and d20 as opposite forces. It reminds me of the gearheads in High School and the Ford vs. Chevy debate! Can't you play and enjoy both?
Um...
No.
There. It is out.
The fact is, as far as rules systems, I do not enjoy D20. And I all but loathe levels.
But, on the other hand, it is impossible for me to find GM's of the caliber of my D20 games in other game systems.
I have to make do.
I'm really looking forward to this. As much as I liked the old World of Darkness setting and enjoyed running it, I still felt that the fundamental gameplay systems were deeply flawed.
It used to really annoy me how the White Wolf writers would spend so much time reminding the reader that "the game is not about combat" instead of just making a combat system which actually worked well. If I sell someone a car, and they come back to me a week later to complain that the air conditioner doesn't work, I don't say "you should just drive with your windows open, don't use the air conditioner." Expecting your audience to adopt a certain playing style rather than building a game that enables them to play as they wish is not cool.
So yeah, I expect this book will get critics from both the D20 and WoD camps. But hell, Monte wrote Call of Cthulhu d20, he knows all about that kind of reaction. :)
It must just be me, and my group(s)...
But I haven't found anyone who had a problem with White Wolf's system in combat.
No... That is kind of a lie. I have strange luck with the system. For some reason, the more dice I roll, the worse I do. But Exalted fixed that just fine.
Disenchanter I would like to play in one of your games because I have had the opposite results. Maybe you have a great group that just works the system well together. My groups in both Wisconsin and Minnesota have not had the luck with the WoD system for combat and magic.
Monte did a fantastic job on CoC. It keeps the feel of the original and works very well in a mixed genre setting.
2 weeks until Gen Con and I will discover what Monte has created.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I never found the WoD combat system to be a problem either. It's much easier to teach to new players than the d20 system is and it does present a fairly accurate portrayal of combat in the real world (to a certain extent).
The new WoD Storytelling system is pure gold, IMO. Streamlined, efficient, easy-to-use, and lightning fast. It is my new favorite in the world of tabletop RPGs. Hands-down awesome.
I never found the WoD combat system to be a problem either. It's much easier to teach to new players than the d20 system is and it does present a fairly accurate portrayal of combat in the real world (to a certain extent).
The new WoD Storytelling system is pure gold, IMO. Streamlined, efficient, easy-to-use, and lightning fast. It is my new favorite in the world of tabletop RPGs. Hands-down awesome.
Yeah, I've heard it was streamlined. The attack-dodge-damage-soak sequence was reduced, no?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Yeah, I've heard it was streamlined. The attack-dodge-damage-soak sequence was reduced, no?
'Reduced' is an understatement. Here's an example:
Old WoD
- Attacker has Dex 3 + Brawl 3 and wants to punch Defender.
- Defender has Dex 3 + Dodge 3 and wants to dodge.
- Attacker rolls 6 dice (target number 6) and gets 4 successes.
- Defender rolls 6 dice (target number 6) and gets 3 successes.
- Attacker hits. Attacker rolls Strength 3 (target number 6) for damage.
- Attacker gets 2 successes.
- Defender rolls Stamina 3 (target number 6) to soak.
- Defender gets 1 success.
- One bashing damage is dealt.
- Next round. Etc. etc. etc. etc.
New WoD
- Attacker has Str 3 + Brawl 3 (notice the difference?) and wants to punch Defender.
- Defender takes the lowest of his Dexterity or Wits (in this case, we'll say it's 2) and that is his Defense. He chooses to dodge (which doubles his Defense to 4).
- Defender's Defense is subtracted from Attacker's pool, leaving 2 dice.
- Attacker rolls 2 dice (target number 8) and gets 1 success.
- Defender suffers 1 bashing damage.
- Next round.
Love it!
OK, I'm confused:
http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=871
"For his last book written in the roleplaying genre, Monte Cook is penning his own unique version of the horror setting known as the World of Darkness."
Last book? What's he going to be doing? I haven't found anything yet, but I did find that Sean Reynolds is going to be working for Upper Deck...
I guess we will have to ask Monte. I bet he is going to be doing a few novels and/ or comics.
I guess we will have to ask Monte. I bet he is going to be doing a few novels and/ or comics.
Yep, he's focusing on the fiction for a while.
I was unaware that Sean K. Reynolds was leaving the industry.
Well, its out now. What does everyone think who has had a chance to peruse the book?
I have a copy waiting for me at my local game store. I took a brief glance at it during Gen Con and I liked what I saw! I appears very edgy and dark.
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For me the World of Darkness is intrinsically tied to it's mechanics, just as DnD is to it's. While one may argue that D20 and OD&D are different animals, they were designed for a specific purpose, to make a wargame into a roleplaying game, where combat and physical dangers are the real obstacles and objectives in the game. World of Darkness focussed on roleplaying primarilly, with combat and intrigue playing equal parts in it's make up. It is a more cinematic game by far. While D20 varients do a good job of increasing the cinema, the system was not designed for it. It is too rules heavy.
I respectfully disagree. Role-playing is not tied to game mechanics. It's the gamer using the game who might let the mechanics dictate what s/he ought to role-play and how. There's a HUGE nuance.
Making a Diplomacy check does not stop me from role-playing before and after the check has been done (as a matter of fact, I love to role-play critical failures. That's awesome and it takes my role-play in unexpected directions). Having a game mechanics for Humanity does not stop me from acting like a Berserker on a rampage, if I want to. Having the game tell me it's all about "art" and "ambiance" does not stop me from optimizing my repartition of dots in my disciplines. It all comes down to player choice here.
I can have dramatic moments with d20. I can powergame with the Storyteller system. I'm certainly not the only one, from experience.
As for McWoD, I shall receive it pretty soon. I'll post a review at the store when I'm done reading it. :)
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Last book? What's he going to be doing? I haven't found anything yet, but I did find that Sean Reynolds is going to be working for Upper Deck...
Monte is no longer part of the gaming industry. He might take on a project here and there if he feels like it, but for the moment, he wants to explore new venues that aren't related to gaming. Lately, he's been working really hard on a fantasy novel. You can check his blog at montecook.com for regular details, if you want.
Cheers,
BP
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm still digesting this book.
'Classes' Included Awakened (people who hold reality together, think super mortals) Demons, Mages, Vampires (New WoD) and Werewolves (No tribes, auspices only)
It is called McWoD as a short hand *laugh*
He actually was able to put a version of Mage's spontanious magic into d20 terms. I'm amazed.
Yeah the Mage element of the game has me real interested!
I just noticed that issue 90 of GTM has an article on mcWotD! Whoot!
Role-playing is not tied to game mechanics.
/rant/
I can have dramatic moments with d20. I can powergame with the Storyteller system. I'm certainly not the only one, from experience.
I'm with you.
We have drama a-plenty in our Sunday night D&D game using d20 (and romance, and terror, and great ROLE playing/ story telling!).
The WoD is not the only game that you can add drama too. They do however encourage this element more that most RPG's.
I bought it! Woot! It is set in Minneapolis where I currently live! Double Woot!!
so.. how is it?
It's next on my big pile of reading material. Don't worry I haven't forgotten.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Could the spont magic system be stolen and imported into D&D, or are the power levels too divergent?
it likely could, my only concern is that the spell tossers would become even more dangerous/unbalanced. With enough +skill items, they can nova in a way that makes the psion cry.
Could the spont magic system be stolen and imported into D&D, or are the power levels too divergent?
I was wondering that myself
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Could the spont magic system be stolen and imported into D&D, or are the power levels too divergent?I was wondering that myself
Yes, it can easily be converted if you bear in mind that level 1 MCWoD characters are worth 4th level standard d20 characters. It's a magic system that is truly open-ended, so I don't think you want to make it available for "those players" searching for the cracks to exploit in a system, but rather for those who are inventive and know how to participate constructively in the role-playing experience. If you like the idea of players surprising you during the course of the game, the magic system's for you.
How is MCWoD? It's great. It's post-apocalyptic. It's d20. It's a universe that can be greatly expanded over the course of a campaign. It's exciting. It makes me want to play.
How is MCWoD?
I'm lovin it!
I'd hit it!okay sorry i couldnt resist
;)
I'm about a 4th of the way through the book and I'm real happy with it. You can adopt it to a WoD campaign or use the default setting. If you use the default setting most PCs including the monsters like vampires have only been around for a year.
I really want to get this but I just cant talk myself into the $50 it costs. I might wait and have it be a Christmas gift. I was looking at it in Border today. My fiance almost choked when she saw the price. Then went into this "There are just never enough books for you, are there? You are never done buying rpg books." thing.
Yeah its a spendy book but pretty self contained. The art is okay. So far I like the rules. On a crit you do Con damage and some regular damage. This can make the combat very deadly.