I've decided to use my leftover subscription cash to buy my first non-D&D rgp, so I turn to my fellow Paizonians to make recommendations. I am not giving up D&D, but I am interested in alternative rules and game styles. I would appreciate that suggestions be limited within these two guidelines:
1. Unless presented with a really appealing recommendation, I am not interested in rules-light games. Rules-light is a perfectly viable way to game, but it inherently does not warrant the "research" that I'm doing.
2. At the same time I am not interested in needlessly complicated games either. One of the few things that I truly despise about D&D is that to a certain extent, it is designed to reward rules-mastery. "Simple and encompassing" is the name of my game. I despise complicated mechanics, like D&D's standard undead turning rules.
Thanks in advance for your ideas!
Check out the GURPS 4th edition books. *rummages around for a link* Ah! The Character book is analagous to to the PHB, and the Campaigns book is like the DMG. It's very freeform, part of its appeal (to me at any rate), will support any genre you like. The rules are straightforward, they've got some nice free PDFs for download, and they also have a very nice Character Assistant program to build characters. :)
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I've always been a fan of Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu game (not the d20 version). It's not too complex, and based primarily on percentages. Plus, it's Cthulhu!
My group also really enjoyed Pinnacle's Deadlands RPG. Think Billy the Kid meets Night of the Living Dead - The Civil War never ended, Jefferson Davis has been replaced by a doppelganger, California tumbled into the ocean, and Lincoln's a ghost! Great rules system, too. Combined die rolls with poker. It won a few awards at Origins when it came out. Unfortunately, I don't know if it's still in print. They d20-ified it not too long ago, but I've heard rumors of a new re-issue...
Pacesetter's "Chill" was/is a great game, too, but I believe it's LONG out of print.
(Hmm...just realized my favorite alternative RPGs all have a horror bent. Well, you can't teach an old Lich new tricks...)
Hope this helps!
Call of Cthulhu... Can't be beat :)
Ïa! Cthulhu ftaghn!
Well, not entirely in line with your request, but I suggest you take a look at HeroGames.com.
Plenty of options, in fact, that's about all it is. Multiple genres (and setting books to work with), fan supported, more bang for your buck (sure, it's black and white, but is a LOT of black and white, ie $50 [$39.99 for a "damaged" copy, a couple of scuffed corners] for a 590 page core book), character generation software available, PDFs of most every product, and can save your life!
It's a lot like GURPS, but I think that GURPS truely does best with Fantasy. Hero runs all genres pretty well, as well as supports them. I'll admit, it takes a little getting used to, but it slaps D&D in the face as far as the options available.
Take a look at the "Hero System Sidekick" ($7 for the PDF) and go from there!
All Flesh Must Be Eaten is pretty good fun -I haven't ran it myself but have played it. :)
The 2nd Edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is out and has received lots of praise. :)
Spacemaster....
or....
Twilight: 2000
Hmm.....both have a lot of needlessly complicated rules, but they're so much fun.
Top Secret/S.I. had solid rules, not too complex and was a blast as well, but it's pretty much built just for the modern age secret agent genre.
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I agree with everything that Larry Lichman said above.
Further, I would recommend any of the BRP system games (Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, etc.) That system has withstood the test of time and is fundamentally a good game engine. Hmmm... I mostly only know old, out-of-print games that used it. There was an Elfquest game, A Ringworld/Known Space game, Pendragon... not sure what else.
I'm not sure how much the current edition of RQ has strayed from the original system and whether it's improved or not.
But from my perspective, this system most meets your posted criteria.
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And how could I forget TORG! One of my favourites of all time, innovative system, really cool setting. I can't say much about the revised edition, because i only played the original. A lot of the old material is still available on pdf from various places.
I'd suggest both Call of Cthulhu and Mutants and Masterminds. Very different but both are have fun rules sets, especially M&M which pretty much lets you make whatever superhero you want. Lots of fun.
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If you and your friends plan to bring your kids into the rpg world, then let me suggest the old system of Gamma World. Easily obtainable modules and plenty more found online, most free. What kid doesnt dig on mutations and defective mutations(both plant and animal), plant & animal player characters, freakin' lazer beams, vibro swords and daggers, renegade military bots, androids, road warrior stuff(Mel Gibson movies), etc?
I never tried the newer D20 version of Gamma World or Darwins World, so i cant speak for them.
Thoth-Amon
I'm not sure how much the current edition of RQ has strayed from the original system and whether it's improved or not.
Haven't played much of the new version, but I preferred the previous version. It's still slow and clunky, but it's extremely realistic. Damage is a BAD thing!
It is really difficult to recommend something without parameters.
Here are the games I have enjoyed the most. There is no guarantee that your tastes will coincide with mine.
If you really like fantasy, EARTHDAWN is a fascinating tonic after the blandness of D&D. Whereas D&D is very open source, with lots of generic rules and tons of monsters to be used as a grab bag in any setting, EARTHDAWN and its setting are inseperable. It is heroic, grim and byzantine. Every character has magic infusing their skills. "Adepts are the heroes of Barsaive, fighting to reclaim and rebuild their Scourge-ravaged land. The magical Disciplines they follow grant them fantastic powers and shape the way they see the world. A warriors sees life as a battlefield, and wields sword and shield with magical brilliance. A troubadour see the world as a tapestry of tales, and uses his magic to spin stories and songs that sway the heart. An archer divides the world into missiles and targets, and powers her bow with her Discipline's magic. Through their Disciplines, adepts forge a bond between the world, powerful magic, and their own innermost selves."
The elegance of the system puts many other games to shame. A party can bond together with karma. Your magic items grow in power as you do, meaning a character can finish an epic storyline in the same armour as he started in. The other thing that truly sets the game apart is the antagonists, the horrors. The game is post apocalyptic fantasy, where the characters are ensuring the survival of all. If you want settings that are rich and unique, this game cannot be beaten.
Go to Earthdawn
White Wolf bears mention. The old Storyteller system had awful supplements, but many hours of deep immersive roleplaying can be had with the core books.
The new edition has elegant rules, but the settings have become turgid and dull. Start with VtM (Vampire the Masquerade.)
The only supplements worth a damn are the players quide to the Sabbat and the "Anarch's Cookbook" Quality is variable but the basic system can be explained to your grandma in five minutes. Prepare to get frustrated at severe balance issues.
Go to Vampire.
Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu is awesome. This is one game that cannot be done with levels and hit dice. get the original.
Go to Chaosium..
Ars Magica is the best medieval magic RPG yet. This is truly a work of art and will make you cringe at D&D magic once you have tried their far superior system. The brightest role players tend to gravitate to this system. It is a demanding game, but it has some of the best ideas in the hobby.
Go to Ars Magica..
Possibly the best combat system ever is the Friday Night Fire Fight from Cyberpunk 2020. The game has aged badly, but it is a great change of pace. If there ever was a franchise calling out for an overhaul, it is this one. The dark humour is worth the price of admission alone. It still has plenty of fan support.
Go to Cyberpunk 2020.
I know that some of the people who will read this thread later are going to cringe at my shoddy language tonight. I am unable to string a coherent sentence together at the moment. Please pardon the shocking English in this post.
Dungeons and Dragons is the Model T of hobbygaming.
Earthdawn is the jeep in the jungle.
Vampire is the emo Volkswagen that thinks it is a Porsche.
Call of Chtulhu is the Bentley with bloodstains on the steering wheel and something eldrich looming in the mirror.
Cyberpunk 2020 is a Ducati Lemans rusting in your uncle's garage.
Some of my favorite RPG's (even more so than d20):
Earthdawn, as mention in the previous post
Legend of the Five Rings (Currently on Backorder)
There are a couple more... But they are long out of print. For completeness, they are Mechwarrior and WEG's Star Wars (D6 system).
If you notice a trend, they are mostly dice pool systems.
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For "alternative" gaming (i.e. not d20) I prefer White Wolf's World of Darkness line, specifically Vampire: The Masquerade. Another good one that hasn't been mentioned yet is AEG's 7th Sea. It's somewhat 'rules-light' but not overly simplified in my opinion. It's a great game of swashbuckling adventure in a 1700s-Earth-like campaign setting with just a little bit of magic and myth sprinkled in for flavor. The system takes a little bit to get used to but once you've figured it out, combat progresses quickly and stylishly.
Thanks for the suggestions so far. Even after I make my decision, I'll be taking notes on other games that sound interesting, because I'll very likely be buying more games in the future. At the moment, I have a couple questions:
1. What is a dice-pool system? Is that somewhat like the old HeroQuest board game with higher stats/more skill = more dice?
2. VtM has been mentioned, but what of its sister games Mage and Werewolf? Can I pretty much assume that they have the same general standards and balance issues?
3. While I am not married to advancement-by-level, I do prefer a game with a definitive form of advancement. That leads to my question about Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu: is there advancement in overall character power or only advancement in the 'dark secrets of the universe'?
4. For those looking for more parameters, I am mostly drawn to fantasy. Even lightsabers and sith just don't have quite the resonance for me that steel swords and dark cultists do. I am also not as much interested in games that revolve around a specific type of character, such as VtM, even though it looks really cool. So ideally I am looking for a game that is fantasy, or can be fantasy (like GURPS), and that allows for viable characters of all stripes.
You have the general idea on dice-pool systems.
There are a couple of variations... Most define the number of dice you roll, and you count the number of dice that roll the difficulty number or higher. These are called successes. The more successes you roll, the better you do - typically.
Another variation is where you roll a number of dice, but can only add a certain number of them together. The higher this total, the more likely you succeed.
Of VtM, Mage, and Werewolf; VtM and Werewolf are the most internally consistent. Mage is very freeform, and as a generalization not very fun to play unless the players and GM can play "loose, and on the fly."
Just do yourself the favor, and don't try to combine the systems. Balance and consistency fall apart rapidly.
I only played Call of Cthulhu a couple of times several years ago... But if memory serves, players were happy to finish the game with their characters intact. Nevermind thinking about advancement.
But there was an advancement mechanic... I only remember I didn't like it.
For non D20 Fantasy, I'd really recommend Earthdawn or Exalted. Exalted is a bit of a stretch... But Earthdawn is probably more to your liking.
It has swords, sorcery of various flavors, not to mention fantasy style races. And while the mechanic is a bit rough on the non-initiated, the basic concepts aren't to far from D20. Especially if you have dabled in Alternity.
Although you didn't "pick" Hero in your above post, and you focus more on Fantasy than other genre, I'd suggest that you try GURPS for two reasons.
1) Hero is doing a revised version of the Fantasy Hero, currently out of print. I'd wait until they put the revision out (which takes advantage of the 5th Revised edition, not much changed though).
2) GURPS is a little more structured than Hero. Hero relies on building things a lot. After all, it says "The Ultimate Gamer's Toolkit" on the cover. Use GURPS as a stepping stone to Hero.
I will say one thing about GURPS Fantasy, the magic system isn't to the liking of our GURPS GM. I've never been able to succesfully glean the reason, but it's a "progressive" system (not a true example, but you'd need Fire and Wind spells just to create a Fireball).
Otherwise, descent system.
Hope that helps.
Since you mentioned you wanted to focus on fantasy, I really, really like Castles and Crusades.
I will say one thing about GURPS Fantasy, the magic system isn't to the liking of our GURPS GM. I've never been able to succesfully glean the reason, but it's a "progressive" system (not a true example, but you'd need Fire and Wind spells just to create a Fireball).
I'm not fan of GURPS magic system either so that's why I rarely use it for fantasy gaming (while for modern day or historic gaming it is often system of choice).
Warhammer FRPG 2.0
Its easy to play and GM-. There's no alignement thingy.It is a standard Central european fantasy setting, ca 1500 AD. Filled with rat-catchers, mutants, Chaos cults and witch-hunters.
Your players will be mutated, mad and suffering from the dreaded stench-fot fever before long!(Its those filthy haflings fault)
Thanks for all the suggestions! Now, let's see how many of these I can talk myself into buying at once...
Ars Magica fourth edition is available free