Do you just stick to what they say can be made Permanent in the PHB, or do you make a list of ones you'll allow?
I'm asking this question for a strange reason, I plan to introduce as adventure hooks former members of an Epic Level Adventure party that disbanded after their biggest quest... took strange turns. To emphasize how high a league they are I thought of them having several permanent affects:
- A Paladin with Permanent Ironskin and Holy Aura.
- A Barbarian with Permanent, Empowered Enlarge Person.
- A Monk with Permanent Haste and Spider Climb.
- A Wizard with Permanent Haste and Non-detection or Mind blank (Wizard likes Wizard's Privacy).
On the other hand I am afraid if I just start letting spells be made Permament willy nilly I'll create a monster, so to speak.
Any Advice?
Personally I allow a series of spells outside of the list in the PHB to be made permanent...but it is a carefully selected list. I have concernse, as I believe do you, that it could get ugly real fast.
As far as the ones you list, I think things like mind blank, non-detection, etc are ok as they are relatively simple, one-trick effects. On the other hand, making things like haste, enlarge person (and with applied metamagic feats applied nonetheless!), etc that can wreak havoc with gameplay (not to mention a characters metabolism) seems like a very bad idea to me so I wouldn't allow them.
Whoops, made a booby there; The wizard is supposed to have Blur cast and made Permanent, so you clouldn't get a good look at him/her, at least without true seeing.
More to your point, what is on you list, if I may?
Do you just stick to what they say can be made Permanent in the PHB, or do you make a list of ones you'll allow?
I'll allow other spells on a case-by-case basis.
I'm not familiar with ironskin, but I'd say no way on the holy aura. Enlarge person is explicitly permitted by the permanency spell description, but it has no variable, numeric effects, so Empowering it does absolutely nothing. Why did the barbarian (or whoever cast in on him) bother? I'd say no on haste and mind blank and yes on blur, nondetection, and spider climb for basically the reasons Shamgar gave.
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I allow many spells to be permanencyed.... with certain extra results - anything the visually makes you "weird" (IE enlarge, 4 arms) give negatives to hide and/or move silently and possibly even Cha on a case by case basis. Also if the one casting the permanency does not know the spell they are casting it on, then they need to research it, for an uninterrupted week for each level the spell is over 5.
I'll allow other spells on a case-by-case basis. I'm not familiar with ironskin, but I'd say no way on the holy aura. Enlarge person is explicitly permitted by the permanency spell description, but it has no variable, numeric effects, so Empowering it does absolutely nothing. Why did the barbarian (or whoever cast in on him) bother? I'd say no on haste and mind blank and yes on blur, nondetection, and spider climb for basically the reasons Shamgar gave.
I'm not surprised you're unfamilliar with Ironskin, because I made another booby. I meant to say Iron Body but got the name wrong. I re-read the spell description and came to my senses however.
I guess I need to re-read the Empower feat because I thought it would make the person Enlarged go from Medium to Huge if Empowered.
I just have a couple more questions however:
1: Invisibility is listed as one of the spells that can be made Permanent. Does this mean it would not be dispelled if the Invisible person attacked someone? Would Permanent Stoneskin (assuming I allowed it) remain after it absorbed all the damage the spell would normally allow?
2: The spells listed all have Xp cost and Minimum levels need to make it Permanent (I think). Any idea how they calculated that for when I calculate the Xp/Level requirements for other spells?
1: Invisibility is listed as one of the spells that can be made Permanent. Does this mean it would not be dispelled if the Invisible person attacked someone?
Invisibility is listed as one of the spells that can be made permanent on an object or area only. If you decide to allow invisibility to be made permanent on a creature, attacking should still end the spell; greater invisibility would be the appropriate spell to attack and remain invisible.
Would Permanent Stoneskin (assuming I allowed it) remain after it absorbed all the damage the spell would normally allow?
I would not allow stoneskin to be made permanent due to its expensive material component.
2: The spells listed all have Xp cost and Minimum levels need to make it Permanent (I think). Any idea how they calculated that for when I calculate the Xp/Level requirements for other spells?
It appears to me that the formula is
Minimum CL = 8th + spell level (minimum 1)XP = spell level (minimum 1) x 500
Considering all these errors, I guess its a good thing only PC lives are in my hands.
No LARPing for me then. ;)
One last question: Can Spells with Metamagic Feats be made Permanent? Would you allow it yourself?
One last question: Can Spells with Metamagic Feats be made Permanent? Would you allow it yourself?
IMO, an extended enlarge person spell is still an enlarge person spell (not a completely new, different spell), so yes, metamagicked spells are valid for permanency.
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extended enlarge personWouldn't that be kind of moot though? Since it's, you know, permanent? ;)
Dude, it's permanent and a half.
"Does that mean it's longer? Is it any longer?"
Well, it's a half longer, isn't it? It's not just permanent. You see, most blokes, you know, will be casting for permanent. You're at permanent here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on permanent on your spell. Where can you go from there? Where?
"I don't know."
Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
"Put it up to permanent and a half."
Pop reference left as an exercise for the reader.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Dude, it's permanent and a half.
"Does that mean it's longer? Is it any longer?"
Well, it's a half longer, isn't it? It's not just permanent. You see, most blokes, you know, will be casting for permanent. You're at permanent here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on permanent on your spell. Where can you go from there? Where?
"I don't know."
Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
"Put it up to permanent and a half."Pop reference left as an exercise for the reader.
It's either a Douglas Adams reference of some sort, or a reference to Spinal Tap's speakers going up to 11.
...or I'm totally wrong. Whichever.
It's either a Douglas Adams reference of some sort, or a reference to Spinal Tap's speakers going up to 11.
...or I'm totally wrong. Whichever.
I'm definitely getting the vibe that if it isn't from Spinal Tap, it should have been.
Anyways, if anyone is interested; here is a brief summary of what members of The Hounds Of Archon have Permanent castings:
A Half Orc Ranger/Horizon Walker with Enlarge Person and Barkskin. Spends his retirement living with a tribe of Ogres in the mountains.
A Human Monk/Shadowdancer with six arms and Spider Climb. She walks the Planes looking for her home Material Plane, doing that whole Kung Fu; the Series thing.
A Half Elf Wizard/Eldritch Knight with Blur, Non-Detection, Undetectible Alignement and either Arcane Sight or True Seeing, (not sure which yet). I'm not sure what he/she/it's up to currently, but given the wizards penchant for secrecy that may be for the best.
An Elf Cleric/Planar Agent with giant butterfly wings and True Seeing. Spends life after the band working as a liason between Corellon Larethian himself and his clergy across the Planes.
There's also a Paladin/Planar Agent who leads Celestial armies to liberate worlds invaded by Infernal forces on the various Material Planes, but I'm not sure what permantent effects, if any to give him yet.
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Spinal Tap. Here's the original (quoted from IMDB):
Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.