To combat the ever-looming "Fred the Fighter" phenomenon, I like to provide my players with sample names and surnames that NPCs use in a campaign. (I even submitted one such list for the Ptolus game world to the Delver's Square Web site. Hopefully it'll show up in a few weeks.)
Any chance of seeing such a list -- or at least naming conventions -- on the blog or in the first issue of Pathfinder?
Creative Director
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To combat the ever-looming "Fred the Fighter" phenomenon, I like to provide my players with sample names and surnames that NPCs use in a campaign. (I even submitted one such list for the Ptolus game world to the Delver's Square Web site. Hopefully it'll show up in a few weeks.)
Any chance of seeing such a list -- or at least naming conventions -- on the blog or in the first issue of Pathfinder?
That's a pretty good idea! I'll see what we can do.
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Years ago I had a player who named his fighter "Bob". Surprisingly, he made it work. Whenever he was asked for his name, he'd say, "Bob. Just Bob. That should be enough for the likes of you," or something similar. The character refused to tell anyone, including other players, about his origins or history. He even went so far as to describe himself as "just a fighter." "I'm not some noble barbarian 'warrior'," he'd say, "and I'm not a 'knight' or a 'soldier' or a 'swordsman'. I fight because that's what I know and because circumstances don't leave me much choice. If you have to call me anything, just call me a 'fighter', 'cuz that's what I am." Thus was born 'Bob the Fighter'. With all the oddball names I've heard since then, I think Bob was the most aptly named.
But more to the point, if you release a list of names or some other sort of naming convention, please please PLEASE try to avoid the random-consonant, multiple-vowel sort of gibberish I keep reading in current Forgotten Realms products. Give the elves elvish-sounding names, give the dwarves dwarven-sounding names, give the halflings hobbit-sounding names, and try to come up with something for humans that doesn't make them sound like dwarves who've learned to like light beer.
Jack the Cleric. Buddy of mine in a campaing I DM'd. It worked.
My favorite PC names are easy to remember. Peter, Priest of Pelor. Famo (fay-moe). Cookie. Thuggler. Wally. Milo. Anni. Lia. Ginny (who's official name is Mouse Kateer but she's my stepmother's character, who is Ginny. Go fig.)
They sound silly, sort of, are only a few consonents, and can be shouted out in public places to catch the attention of a friend. You'd be surprised how few Thugglers there are in the world, while there's a lot of Richs.
Another note: I love love love names. I love random name generation tables, I love the history of names, I love to make up names, I love everything about them. So, if the guys in charge of Pathfinder make the names interesting and easy to remember, we will love you even more.
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One of my old DM's had a random name generator. It took a bunch of syllables and strung them together. This resulted in the following names:
Squigo.
Zetcrog.
Malgoth.
Of course, Squigo perished and was replaced with Duros (the player's name). Subsuquent events resulted in
Duros Fruitbane
Zetcrog the Hardly Ever Dying
Malgoth the Odd
And yes, there's stories behind each and every one of those names.
It has been said that "Varisian" is the same as "gypsy," at least in some instances. You might use decidedly gypsy-sounding names: LINK.
Whoo-hoo! An Aussie site. great site by the way. Gotta love us Aussies!
O'h yeah James, get that name list cracking!
Yes, names are windows into culture, and I strongly, strongly support coming up with naming conventions for most races (a lot of people already understand how dwarf and even gnome names "should" sound), and for the various cultures of humans in the world. And please don't just have one culture of humans.
Also, I have to say I'm a bit worried/dissappointed in the name Saranrae for the sun god. Just sounds too flowery- a love god/dess, art deity, or something like that would work. To be truthful... it sounds elvish.
Back to humans... for the "typical" culture of humans, the ones that most readers will automatically think of when they hear "human," why not just have ordinary names? John, Jack, Walters, Johanna, Emily, Richard, Robertson... etc. They're easy to remember, and after the initial shock and maybe even a few laughs at having non-made up names, players might actually appreciate having names they can remember. Of course, you can use more "non standard" English names with great frequency, and then slip in some made-up ones that still sound cool from time to time. It's D&D(ish), no one will notice/care. :)
I totally agree with Saern! Standard real world names make for good commoners, gaurds, buisness owners, and heroes who used to be farm boys. And there are a lot of non standard real names that sound fantasy-ish like Cillian, Ilsa, Scarlet, Rhys, etc.
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Creative Director
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Also, I have to say I'm a bit worried/dissappointed in the name Saranrae for the sun god. Just sounds too flowery- a love god/dess, art deity, or something like that would work. To be truthful... it sounds elvish.
Then the name's working perfectly, to be honest! Sarenrae is a very feminine deity, one who's got a nurturing personality that is filled with forgiveness and the promise of redemption. When she's on your side, she's full of mirth and joy and peace, and that's the way the majority of her faithful regard her. That said... when it comes to demons and undead, the gloves come off and she kind of transforms into a whirling dervish type crusader who's all about the grace and deadly beauty of combat.
To use the Forgotten Realms as an example, she's kind of what you'd get if you combined Lathander and Eilistraee.
People looking for gruff, not-flowery gods and goddesses won't be disapointed by our list; there's plenty on there who are "tough guy" gods. Our core pantheon is 20 deities strong; we've not even revealed half of them yet...
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My own favorite names were Krome, a dwarven fighter, who mocked a god and was cursed with pale blue skin. Followed by Krunsh, another dwarven fighter. I thought Krunsh was appropriate for a fighter.
In my game we have one guy playing an Archer (Iron Heroes), named Nowon Atall(No-One At All). It works. When the city guards ask his name, he just replies "Nowon, Nowon Atall." They ask his name a lot, since he tends to use his bag of holding a little too often... :)
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Then the name's working perfectly, to be honest! Sarenrae is a very feminine deity, one who's got a nurturing personality that is filled with forgiveness and the promise of redemption. When she's on your side, she's full of mirth and joy and peace, and that's the way the majority of her faithful regard her. That said... when it comes to demons and undead, the gloves come off and she kind of transforms into a whirling dervish type crusader who's all about the grace and deadly beauty of combat.
Why does this bring the image of Kevin Smith's female God from Dogma to mind. And what's worse is why do I think that not only does this fit, that it will be kewl.
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My all-time favorite NPC name was one a friend of mine came up with for a GURPS Supers game.
The character/villain, named Srf (Serf), was utterly nondescript, and constantly wore a gray tee shirt with the letters SRF on it in black. His power was a sort of immortality in that, if he was wounded, he could take body parts from other background NPCs (sometimes killing them in the process) to replace bits of himself he'd lost.
The letters SRF (source of his name, of course)?
Stood for "Some Random F*@%".
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"Balabar Smenk"....
3) Suggests high-bastardry
I... I can't argue.
Also, I have to say I'm a bit worried/dissappointed in the name Saranrae for the sun god. Just sounds too flowery- a love god/dess, art deity, or something like that would work. To be truthful... it sounds elvish.
I dunno. Doesn't sound any more elven than Malina (Inuit) or Amaterasu (Japanese). Then again, I tend to interpret the pronunciation of her name as "saw-Ron-ray."
I'm interested, though, in what the moon god will be called (and what other elements fall into his portfolio).
I devoutly hope that halfling names in this setting won't sound anything like hobbit names.
I devoutly hope that halfling names in this setting won't sound anything like hobbit names.
Excised from their hobbit roots, I'm not sure what the "hook" for halflings even is any more, unless it's just being less annoying SRD kender.
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I usually do not like premade names in game, per say. Rather I like a description of the culture. Then I go to the internet...
For example, I am working on a home brew adventure with Fire Giants, and added an Efreet. For the Fire Giant I looked up Scandinavian and Pacific Islander names and combined them for a name. For the Efreet, I looked up Arabic and African names and combined them.
Often times I look up a word in a thesaurus and get an idea for a name based on synonyms. Add in a little Romanizing, or Germanizing or whatever fits the character.
I got Krome for a name because I wanted a one syllable, consonant heavy name. One that sounded "dwarvish" and sounded "earthy" or "metallic". My next dwarf I wanted a fighter sounding name, still one syllable, and "dwarvish" and came up with Krunsh.. a great fighter name by the way.
I think an identifiable cultural description would help moe than a list of names.
I think an identifiable cultural description would help moe than a list of names.
Ugh. Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians in the Forgotten Realms and, well, nearly every interesting nation in world history being dropped into Mystara makes me cry.
If I want to play in ancient Egypt, I'll just play in ancient Egypt.
Besides, "identifiable cultural description" gives us wildly insulting and vaguely racist gypsy stereotypes as halflings. Just say no.
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I think an identifiable cultural description would help moe than a list of names.Ugh. Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians in the Forgotten Realms and, well, nearly every interesting nation in world history being dropped into Mystara makes me cry.
If I want to play in ancient Egypt, I'll just play in ancient Egypt.
Besides, "identifiable cultural description" gives us wildly insulting and vaguely racist gypsy stereotypes as halflings. Just say no.
LOL Mystara was my favorite setting :)
But if you don't have a cultural description, then you have no culture, and then no country. I find a country far more interesting if it has a description of who the people are, what they do and dress like, what the believe and how they act. Without these things it is simply Country X, generic fantasy land with no real value whatsoever.
And BTW Mystara did not have real world countries just dropped in. They did have countries influenced and patterned off of real world countries, which gave them a sense of reliabilty and identifiable to the players. I could never get into FR and Greyhawk. Too generic fantasy-land stuff for me.
:)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Well I've already created my own Crusty dwarven NPC named Gerrus Ironfoot, a retired adventurer and itinerant tinker in Sandpoint. His former companions include Two-faced Egan, a human charlatan extrodinaire (aka Etrigan the Bold) now a courtier; Lliifaeten "Lefty" Greenbow, half-elven scout (gone walkabout); and Brother Yoren a simple adherent of Old Deadeye's faith tending to his gardens in Sandpoint.
LOL Mystara was my favorite setting :)
I'm a big fan as well, but of the countries that weren't just pastiches.
But if you don't have a cultural description, then you have no culture, and then no country.
That doesn't equate to "make them like vikings," which is what I thought you meant. If that's not, I apologize. :)
And BTW Mystara did not have real world countries just dropped in. They did have countries influenced and patterned off of real world countries, which gave them a sense of reliabilty and identifiable to the players.
The Arabs next door to the vikings and the American Indians sandwiched between Renaissance Italy and India were pretty painful elements and, unfortunately, pretty major.
I loved the Five Shires (I was the only one on the MML who felt that way, it often seemed), Glantri (of course), Karameikos and several other countries.
But the pastiches ... ouch. The setting never needed them and they were a mistake, IMO.
Halflings aren't hobbits anymore, so treating them as if they are is a mistake. Paizo has a great opportunity to actually give Third Edition halflings an identity.
LOL Mystara was my favorite setting :)I'm a big fan as well, but of the countries that weren't just pastiches.
But if you don't have a cultural description, then you have no culture, and then no country.That doesn't equate to "make them like vikings," which is what I thought you meant. If that's not, I apologize. :)
And BTW Mystara did not have real world countries just dropped in. They did have countries influenced and patterned off of real world countries, which gave them a sense of reliabilty and identifiable to the players.The Arabs next door to the vikings and the American Indians sandwiched between Renaissance Italy and India were pretty painful elements and, unfortunately, pretty major.
I loved the Five Shires (I was the only one on the MML who felt that way, it often seemed), Glantri (of course), Karameikos and several other countries.
But the pastiches ... ouch. The setting never needed them and they were a mistake, IMO.
I've never played any Mystarra, nor anything older than 3.0, but I don't really see anything wrong with just lifting a "culture" wholly from history and dropping it into an appropriate place in a fantasy world. In fact, that's a lot of what I've done with my homebrew to help flesh it out and populate it. Gives an automatic recognition factor amongst players. Sure, you could set a game in alternate history Egypt, but what if your character in the game now wants to go climb a pyramid and come face to face with the mummy of an ancient pharaoh (sp?). I don't see how that's a bad thing.
However, I will readily conceed that it has to be done correctly. You can't just drop Gaelic tribes and fuedal Japanese right next to each other and simply expect it to work, unless you've got some really good explanation. And, again, that's one thing I've done in my homebrew: some nations grow organically, some are lifted from historical cultures, but whatever the case, I think about the new whole they create and how they influence each other.
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Very true... there has to be some reason to the cultures proximity. :) The majority were ok for me, though the asian themed ones right into the middle of the european themed ones didn't work for me.
I altered Glantri so much it was a whole new place. :)
And what I meant was a description of the culture should be a major part of the text. The culture should be thought out well enough to explain some of the customs and mannerisms. Dress is important and so is history. With that I can get an "image" in my head and use the internet to cobbletogether a name.
My fire giant used Scandinavian and Pacific Islaner names. How do I get that combo? Well Scandinavian for the giant, norse part Islander for the fire, volcano parts. work them together how you like, to get the sound that works.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think an identifiable cultural description would help moe than a list of names.Ugh. Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians in the Forgotten Realms and, well, nearly every interesting nation in world history being dropped into Mystara makes me cry.
If I want to play in ancient Egypt, I'll just play in ancient Egypt.
Besides, "identifiable cultural description" gives us wildly insulting and vaguely racist gypsy stereotypes as halflings. Just say no.
Actually in the original concept of the Realms, it made sense. Abducted humans for slaves, their deities coming to rescue them.
Toril and Earth were connected, but over time the connections broke down and Toril was 'Forgotten'.
I like Scarred Lands Halflings and Talenta Halflings myself.
Played with a guy who used to just add "-lore" to the ends of the other players' names (or pieces thereof) to make character names: Marclore, Abalore, etc. They ended up setting the tone for the campaign, and then everyone knew which characters were his, as an added bonus.
Excised from their hobbit roots, I'm not sure what the "hook" for halflings even is any more, unless it's just being less annoying SRD kender.
This is something we have talked about specifically. We have some interesting ideas floating around for halflings. Might be worthy of a blog post.
Hmm...
This is something we have talked about specifically. We have some interesting ideas floating around for halflings. Might be worthy of a blog post.
Good ideas for post-hobbit halflings would definitely be worth a blog post.
Yes, by all means do for 3.5 halflings what you've already done for goblins and kobolds. And for crying out loud, don't forget the gnomes!
In other news...a guy in my homebrew wanted to name his druid Steve. I ruled against it and he insisted. At which point, I began to call him Mud. He eventully came up with Felgoth, but ended up being referred to as Mud until his untimely demise.
This is something we have talked about specifically. We have some interesting ideas floating around for halflings. Might be worthy of a blog post.
Hmm...
I'm looking forward to that one. There has to be an original way to do them.
Hey, how do you pronounce Seoni, anyway? See-OWN-eye? SAY-oh-nee? SHOW-nee?
Names are very important. On the whole, recent APs have done well in this regard, so I trust the Paizo staff to do well for NPC names in the new campaign world.
As for standard naming conventions, the list of names in PC race explanations are useful starting points, but YMMV. Some suggestions that capture the flavor for two or three major human cultures is good. Some suggestions that retool halflings so they aren't Tolkienesque and gnomes so they aren't silly might be a good tone-setter too. But I've already got my own preconceptions about names that probably will be different from everyone else's.
Toponyms are very important, too.
But, also note: some of the names in my favorite campaign setting (Greyhawk) are downright dorky, (Verbobonc? Melf the elf? Zagyg Yragerne?) but I've come to accept them as part of the setting over time. When you go to a foreign country, often you'll hear things that are strange and entertaining to the ears of English speakers, but which make perfect sense and sound quite mellifluous to the native speaker. The same might be true of fantasy places. In my homebrew, Snarbats, Zizzle, Mundletode, Vraxlemuir, and Gnumruck are major gnomish settlements. These names sound hilarious to the humans living nearby--but they are nothing of the sort in gnomish ears!
Hey, how do you pronounce Seoni, anyway? See-OWN-eye? SAY-oh-nee? SHOW-nee?
I've been mentally pronouncing it as SAY-oh-nee. Kind of the way that actress Tea Leoni pronounces her last name. And if I happen to imagine certain aspects of Tea Leoni's personality overlaying the iconic sorceress, I apologize in advance. But hey! There could be much worse combinations to contemplate, right? ;-)
--Neil
Just throwing my two copper bits in. .. but I've been pronouncing it See-Oh-Nee
Just throwing my two copper bits in. .. but I've been pronouncing it See-Oh-Nee
This is the pronunciation we're going with, though we make it sound like see-OH-nee.
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This is the pronunciation we're going with, though we make it sound like see-OH-nee.
Tsk! Tsk! Doing so, you have "e" playing double values--which is bad enough in English, but causes even more confusion in a made up words/names. If you were going to go with the "see-OH-nee" pronunciation, you guys should've just went with "Sioni" to insure a bit of spelling/pronunciation consistency.
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Creative Director
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Seoni is one of many names that I've got bumping around in the part of my brain that stores exotic and interesting names. When I'm writing D&D stuff, that's often where I go to in order to name NPCs, and that's why a lot of my NPCs often have similar naming constructions and why now and then you'll see similar names popping up in adventrues I write. Seoni, for example, ended up being part of a VERY minor NPC name in Sasserine, and when it came time to name our Iconics for Pathfinder, it was still fresh in mind and so I went with it. It's an exotic name, sure, but that's the point, since the character herself, being a native Varisian, is kind of exotic.
Where did the name come from? A friend of mine back in junior high and high scholl was named Seoni, and she pronounced it "See-oh-nee." I'm not sure where her parents came up with the name, but a search of the internets turns it up as the name of a city/region in India. A city/region that apparently figured in Rudyard Kipling's "The Jungle Book" (although there it looks like he spelled it "Seeonee," like it sounds).
So that's the super long and detailed history & reason why we pronounce it the way we do, and why it's spelled the way it is. And to be honest, when I say it out loud, it comes out sounding more like "SAY-oh-nee" but the 'a' sound in the first syllable is VERY soft. So that it sounds closer to see than say.
And anyway, spelling it "Sioni" makes it look too much like the word "Sin" is in there, and that's not a connotation I wanted the name to have, especially since Rise of the Runelords has so much sin stuff in there already.
Seoni, for example, ended up being part of a VERY minor NPC name in Sasserine, and when it came time to name our Iconics for Pathfinder, it was still fresh in mind and so I went with it.
And besides, there's nothing wrong with two people having the same name. I am also called James for example. And so is James Keegan.
Come to think of it it's kind of odd in fantasy literature that people often have nicknames as surnames yet no two characters ever have the same first name... the whole point of nicknames is usually to differentiate between your Erik Wolf-slayers and your Erik Mead-quaffers.
...the whole point of nicknames is usually to differentiate between your Erik Wolf-slayers and your Erik Mead-quaffers.
On a lighter note: I wonder which one of those epithets qualifies Mr. Mona? ;-)
--Neil
...the whole point of nicknames is usually to differentiate between your Erik Wolf-slayers and your Erik Mead-quaffers.On a lighter note: I wonder which one of those epithets qualifies Mr. Mona? ;-)
--Neil
Erik PC-Killer?? ;P