Hey guys, i am currently running my 4 PC's and 1 NPC through the AoW. They just finished off Makar but have not gotten back to Magepoint yet.
I am posting because i have a problem, for the last 5 or so installments which covers the last 6 months of our groups gaming one of my players has been cheating.
He is playing a Wiz/Cleric/Mystic Theurge 15th level total.
He is fudging dice rolls, lieing about his spell list, what he is carrying, some of his items and so forth, and its really starting to have a negative impact on the party and even the game.
For example, and i dont think this was a innocent mistake, he told me he had a bag of holding VI, that allowed him to carry "A ton of stuff".
When i confronted him about the bag he just kind of sat there non receptively.
I have had him as a PC and have talked to him in private about his cheating before also, this was in a totally different campaign.
At first i took the approach of "ok, lets see how much of what i dish out he can take!", but that ended in innocent PC's stepping in the path of the Oculus Demon i had revamped and all but 2 characters out of 5 dieing. Among the living was him obviously.
I then tried to work with him in some areas he might feel weak in, thinking that was why he was compensating with the cheating, but nothing seemed wrong with his character, he has saves through the roof in all but Reflex, and his AC is stupifying. I dont want to make it an issue in front of everyone, and i dont want to lose a semi-friend that i have had for a few years now, but i cant keep adjusting everything my party fights to try and make it an equal challange for him because if blows everyone else out of the water!
Any suggestions on how to handle the situation would be appreciated.
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I sympathise because I've had the same problem for years. Lots of people will tell you to kick the player out, but that's easier said than done, especially when you don't want to lose a friend over a game. Knowing that some people just can't help themselves, I asked myself whether I preferred my friend to not show up at all or if I preferred to have him show up and fudge his dice on a regular basis. I finally chose the latter option. But I do have a few suggestions:
- Have him sit near you, where you can see his rolls. Add a house ruling that no rolls are legal unless you see them. Don't hesitate to make him reroll when he tries to cheat. I'm sure you're familiar with his rolling methods: roll'em & scoop'em, rolling behind his hands, rolling before you ask, using unreadable dice, etc. Disallow those weird dice which have numbers replaced with elven runes or something.
- Keep everyone's character sheets after a session and do character audits once in a while. If he makes 'mistakes,' confront him in front of the players. He might be embarrassed.
- Give your villains bonuses against him. I once tried giving my monsters +2 to hit & +2 to damage against him. Didn't really help but it was fun watching him get hosed for once.
- Don't reward him. I'm not talking about XP, since that's a bit too obvious. Don't make any efforts to develop his character. He might have the most powerful character with nearly maxed-out hit points, but he won't have the coolest character. Give him crappy treasure.
- Even the odds for everyone. Introduce the fate points from Spire of Long Shadows at the beginning of the campaign. This way everyone can legally reroll their dice. Reward the other players more often with fate points.
The important thing is for everyone showing up to have fun. If he needs to cheat to have fun, so be it. If the other players aren't aware of the problem, great! If his cheating is making it less fun for the other players, then we have a problem. Ask their opinions about what should be done. It's a delicate situation. If you feel you can confront him about this and still keep him as a friend, go for it. Expect him to return to his old ways eventually. Hope this helps.
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I particularly like the way those two words sit just perfectly by my icon's scowling visage.
Seriously, I had a player symptomatic of the same just a couple years ago; I had to retire his character to put an end to the cheating. It had reached a point where it had become not only distracting, but detrimental to the other players' PCs. Needless to say, he left my little gaming circle.
One suggestion, which may not go over well with the upstanding players as it suggests there may be an integrity problem with everyone: introduce Player Checks and Balances. The DM randomly rolls for each player.
Another, less invasive procedure, straight from an old Monte Cook article: all players roll in an open area, visible to all other players; makes integrity violations virtually impossible.
There's a point when it's "darn good luck", a point where it's "cheating", and a point when it's "blatantly disrespecting you as both a person and a DM". This guy sounds like the latter. I've gamed with all three.
The first is sometimes surprising or frustrating, but generally not a big deal, probability eventually bites the guy in the butt soon enough.
The second is when someone picks up a die from the floor, even though it could be play it as it lies style, or swaps a spell prepared because the DM didn't actually ask to see a list of what was prepared.
The third is what I call actual, true, honest to goodness cheating. Where the guy looks you in the eye and says "I confirm the crit" when his d20 is showing a 1. When he says the monster with a +20 attack bonus misses on a roll of 15 and his character sheet says 14 in the little box for AC. This guy is not worth your time as a player, and likely not worth it as a freind, especially if he doesn't respect you requests to knock off the cheating.
Seriously, ditch the guy from your group (and don't say you can't, can't is ability, won't is desire, you DO have the ability) and if possible, ditch him from your life. These people only drag others down to their level, or worse, with them to unpleasant futures.
Sorry for the rant, this strikes close to home on some sensitive spots for me. Good luck!
This has happened to me before. I now observe the following rules in every campaign I run.
1.) All PCs are made in my presence, and I keep the sheets until they die permanently. I scan them into my computer after every session and compare copies from time to time. This prevents characters from "correcting" their character sheets inappropriately.
2.) All dice are rolled in the open. Cocked dice or dice that fall to the floor must be rerolled. If I don't see the roll, it didn't happen.
3.) I have a copy of every player's character sheet available during every game. If I think something sounds fishy, I check the sheet. If it doesn't add up, it doesn't happen.
4.) If you "cheat" accidentally by making an honest mistake, you get a "do-over".
5.) If you cheat and nobody catches you but me, I'll warn you publicly not to do it again.
6.) If you cheat again or if everybody catches you, your character dies permanently and you have to start another one at lower level. Alternately, you forfeit all treasure and lose a level or two. (The exact penalty is decided by a vote of all players present).
7.) If you cheat a third time or get caught by everyone twice, you're out of the group permanently. No hard feelings, you're still our friend, but we take our game seriously and you can't play.
I make sure every player hears and accepts these rules before I let them into the game. To date, I've had to get rid of two players including on one occasion my own son. Everyone else has a great time. (My son still loves me, and has since been allowed to resume playing with us. He doesn't cheat anymore and makes sure no one else does, either. He's an awesome kid, even if he is only five.)
Thanks for all the help guys, all the suggestions are versatile and GREAT! I really do appreciate it and i will try to preserve the game and a friend/player at the same time.