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Over on the _Pathfinder_ threads there has been some substantial discussion on kid-friendly adventure material, particularly in light of the recent (and, for me, much appreciated) multiple-headed nods to Lovecraft/Campbell/Derleth and the Cthulhu Mythos--some really like it, some don't, and I venture some really don't care as long as the play is good and engaging.
Just as a small snapshot, and probably not very accurate as a picture of the average game group (since we all seem to be a little older, message boards posters I mean), how many of the regular posters here play D&D (or D20 or an OGL RPG, et al.) full-out adventures with kids under 13? If so, do you tone down more mature or horrific themes?
I've run a couple bare-bones games for my 8 year old brother in law, but they were "orc and pie" type scenarios, not campaigns. I'd probably try to keep the tone pretty breezy and optimistic, vice the heavily archaeological/religious tone I tend to take in my adult campaigns. At teh pre-teen to early teen ages, its still a gateway drug :)
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Well, I don't play with any kids in my group, but I encourage creative and mature thinking even in those who are still considered 'children.' My daughter has a Cthulhu plushy that she sleeps with and I don't hold anything back as far as literature is concerned. Poe and Shakespere are things that we read to her on a regular basis. They're wonderful stories, macabre as they may be, and I think that trying to filter such things based on age is unnecessary.
Of course, that's just me. :D
Taking a more Grimm Bros approach are we? :)
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Taking a more Grimm Bros approach are we? :)
My three year old has a NOSPOOKS Device (Nodal-field Omnidirectional Suppression of Poltergeist, Oogy-boogies, Others, Kooks, and Specters).
It's the housing for a disabled 110-240 voltage converter I brought back from Iraq with a Radio Shack-purchased bank of blinky 'Christmas Tree" lights, and a remote control in case she wakes up and it's not turned on.
It keeps the monsters out of her room at night while providing a pleasing hum of white noise.
I'm not making this up.
.
Well, I don't play with any kids in my group, but I encourage creative and mature thinking even in those who are still considered 'children.'
Of course, that's just me. :D
You're not exactly alone on that. I don't play with kids as part of my standard group. I have tried running a couple of small games for my niece who is 12-soon to be 13 (birthday next week). She took interest in it on her own. I've just encouraged it!! Along with her thinking. There have been many topics I have told her as much of the blatant truth as I can. The only "watering down" comes from making sure she understands through use of analogies appropriate for her and her life. I have also told her more than once look into things on her own, form her own opinions from that. This coming from a "Don't just take my word for it" rather than "I don't want to talk about it" perspective.
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Contributor
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My three year old has a NOSPOOKS Device (Nodal-field Omnidirectional Suppression of Poltergeist, Oogy-boogies, Others, Kooks, and Specters).
It's the housing for a disabled 110-240 voltage converter I brought back from Iraq with a Radio Shack-purchased bank of blinky 'Christmas Tree" lights, and a remote control in case she wakes up and it's not turned on.
It keeps the monsters out of her room at night while providing a pleasing hum of white noise.
I'm not making this up.
Dude, that rocks. :D
In the campaign I'm currently running, I've got a 34 year old, a 36 year old...and a 16 year old. The 16 year old is my daughter. She;s probably more morbid than any one else in the group, to be honest...very much a fan of original Japanese horror films, and survival horror games like Fatal Frame on the PS2. We certainly try to gear the sessions away from things that I know would be uncomfortable for her, which for the most part are things that generally wouldn't be working their way into any game I ran. The best part about her is that, despite being very much a neophyte, she's very into the "role" part of playing, rather than the "roll" part. She's a blast to run a game for.
(Not that the other two aren't, of course!)
Every sunday we play a "family game" with three boys, 13, 13, and 16 and our 7 year old daughter. We don't really water down TOO much, as with that many brothers, our daughter is just as bad as they are.
My husband and I were just recently berated by a family member for allowing our boys to watch Band of brothers with us (history lessons) I wonder what they would say about my sweet little girl's glee in butchering the boogie man?
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Well, I don't play with any kids in my group, but I encourage creative and mature thinking even in those who are still considered 'children.' My daughter has a Cthulhu plushy that she sleeps with and I don't hold anything back as far as literature is concerned. Poe and Shakespere are things that we read to her on a regular basis. They're wonderful stories, macabre as they may be, and I think that trying to filter such things based on age is unnecessary.
Of course, that's just me. :D
Dude, that is the most AWESOME thing I have heard all day.
My parents raised me on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. It...um...scared my kindergarten teacher that I kept 'correcting' the Disney versions of the stories. In fact, I scared just about everyone. I still do...
Dude, that rocks. :DMy three year old has a NOSPOOKS Device (Nodal-field Omnidirectional Suppression of Poltergeist, Oogy-boogies, Others, Kooks, and Specters).
It's the housing for a disabled 110-240 voltage converter I brought back from Iraq with a Radio Shack-purchased bank of blinky 'Christmas Tree" lights, and a remote control in case she wakes up and it's not turned on.
It keeps the monsters out of her room at night while providing a pleasing hum of white noise.
I'm not making this up.
Yes it does!
At some relative's behest to try and interest some of my cousins in D&D, I was showing my 10 year old cousin the Monster Manual about a month or so ago. Her mom had made a request to make sure it wasn't violent, however.
"You can make D&D completely non-violent!" I had assured her.
Well... in theory. :) I realized how hard that would really be as I flipped through the book. It's kinda hard to dodge the issue when you get to the picture of the orc with the greataxe or the vampires with their spiked chains. I didn't see a problem with introducing them to the combat side of the game, but I was trying to honor my promise to my aunt.
As an aside, I then went back and talked to my aunt about it and she was fine with the battle and combat, so long as it wasn't gorey or gratuitous. Afterall, the kid is into Pokemon, and I'm pretty sure there's a fairly high level of low-intensity combat in that.
Ramping up the roleplaying is a great way to reduce the emphasis on combat, of course. My cousins do like games of pretend and make believe, but they're still pretty free-form about it; I'm not that experienced with kids, so I'm not sure if they'd be able to get into even a very basic D&D run, but perhaps I'm underestimating them.
Wow, the relevancy of my post is waning by the sentence.
Alright, to return to the topic somewhat, I'm 19, so I still have some relatively clear recolections of being the age in question. I've always been told and known that I'm rather mature for my age, but I don't think I'd have had a problem with dark fantasy/horror. I remember reading Dragonlance and other similar fiction, and being quite bored when I picked up a more "traditional," fairy-tale book.
In the end, I think that the appropriateness of such games would have to be determined by assessing the maturity and capacity of the individual 13- year old. Some could certainly handle it (the ones that are likely to get into D&D in the first place, I would guess), some couldn't.
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In the end, I think that the appropriateness of such games would have to be determined by assessing the maturity and capacity of the individual 13- year old. Some could certainly handle it (the ones that are likely to get into D&D in the first place, I would guess), some couldn't.
yeah...
One (former) player I know, also known as Andy the Game-Crasher was 14 at the time he crashed our game, f##%ed up the story arc with his inane meddling, and generally ruined the game with his immaturity. He is the only case I have heard of where someone was forcibly ejected from a gaming session.
Anyway, my point is that age isn't really a factor, maturity is.
You are absolutely right about some kids being more mature and able to handle the game more than others. My 13 year old is far more capable of the mechanical aspects of D&D than my 16 year old is, and enjoys it more. The oldest boy just wants to hack and slash, go figure. Incidentally (sp?) the 13 year old is the one who likes to read Eddings and slept with a rancor when he was little. He still has the rancor, but now it's on his shelf.
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You are absolutely right about some kids being more mature and able to handle the game more than others. My 13 year old is far more capable of the mechanical aspects of D&D than my 16 year old is, and enjoys it more. The oldest boy just wants to hack and slash, go figure. Incidentally (sp?) the 13 year old is the one who likes to read Eddings and slept with a rancor when he was little. He still has the rancor, but now it's on his shelf.
Huh. My parents have told me that when I was a tyke, I slept with a hammer. And look at me now! [sarcasm]Perfectly normal![/sarcasm]
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You are absolutely right about some kids being more mature and able to handle the game more than others. My 13 year old is far more capable of the mechanical aspects of D&D than my 16 year old is, and enjoys it more. The oldest boy just wants to hack and slash, go figure. Incidentally (sp?) the 13 year old is the one who likes to read Eddings and slept with a rancor when he was little. He still has the rancor, but now it's on his shelf.
It's true. I'm 38, and most 13 yr. olds are more mature than me.
I can handle C'thulhu though. I pappy slap his tentnickles slap off his face.
Well, I haven't played with that age group ever since I was close to that...
But thinking back what I and my friends were like in that age, Lovecraftian horror might be too much or bit of unappealing type. I think I read first of his stories, and Poe, around when I was 14 and loved the macabre aspects, but I am bit of a weirdo too.
I loved old horror movies, Christopher Lee as Dracula and all that, when I was a kid, read Stephen King when I was 10 and so on...so including horror elements in the game should work fine even though we were more likely to go for "bash that zombie" route than really appreciate nuances of slowly-building horror...
The only problem is that teachers might have something to say after they hear what the kids are talking about...
You are absolutely right about some kids being more mature and able to handle the game more than others. My 13 year old is far more capable of the mechanical aspects of D&D than my 16 year old is, and enjoys it more. The oldest boy just wants to hack and slash, go figure. Incidentally (sp?) the 13 year old is the one who likes to read Eddings and slept with a rancor when he was little. He still has the rancor, but now it's on his shelf.
I have to show this to my wife. She got upset when I said I told her i was ordering this for when we have a baby. Maybe this will help her understand. ;)Especially since when I was a child I had a 12 inch Darth vader action figure that went EVERYWHERE with me.
Who needs a security blanket with the Dark Side riding shotgun with you?
Oh my! I absolutely have to get that for my niece! My cousin will love it. When their son was born, my husband and I picked up a little onsie that had a Darth helmet on it and it said "Who's your daddy?"
That big plastic rancor scared away the boogie men better than a teddy bear ever could.
More to the topic, I watched my kids more closely last night during our game, and have come to agree with most of the posts, it's not the age, but the maturity level of the child. My sixteen year old is about ten, my thirteen year old is about fifty, and our seven year old girl tries to copy her teenage cousins, we'll be locking her in her room shortly, until she's about thirty or so.
We've got a high school student in our gaming group, but we also play in the game room of our FLGS, and there are lots of teens and pre-teens in the game room every week (playing CCGs, mostly). As a rule, we tone down the "mature content" so there will be nothing offensive overheard by any of the kids, or any of their parents who might come in.
My husband's nephew turned 13 last November, and in honor of the occasion (and just because we could), we game him D&D stuff and taught him the basics. Likewise, we avoid the "darker" stuff with him, and try to encourage him to play heroic characters. His 10-year-old-sister had nightmares just from overhearing us run him through a fairly basic adventure with goblins, so we agree with the parents that she'll need to wait a few years before trying out the game.
Just as an example, I considered running Funeral Procession for the 13-year-old, and decided it would be too dark as-written.
My parents raised me on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. It...um...scared my kindergarten teacher that I kept 'correcting' the Disney versions of the stories. In fact, I scared just about everyone. I still do...
Those stories are great...
Anyway I've been playing since I was five and nothing has ever really bothered me about it. I'm almost thirteen now and I don't think you really need to "tone it down" unless you're playing with some catholic Christians or something (which you would probably want to avoid).
Pff, when I was six my dad ran a horror campaign for my little sister (then four) and I. We fought vampires, and he didn't hold back on the details.
I think a 13 year old can handle madness beyond reality.
My parents raised me on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. It...um...scared my kindergarten teacher that I kept 'correcting' the Disney versions of the stories. In fact, I scared just about everyone. I still do...
My dad tried to do that. I believe my mom made him stop, because he only read part of one and then no more.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Why? I've never had a problem gaming with Catholics, and I do it regularly. (See also: Mormons, Buddhists, Lutherans, Baptists.)...unless you're playing with some catholic Christians or something (which you would probably want to avoid).
I used to play with a Catholic (I nearly typed 'Cathoholic' which is funny...) but he was pretty much a non-entity at the table and eventually was driven from our group by popular vote. I don't think his lack of roleplaying presence was in any way related to his religion, however. He was just a dreadfully uncreative and boring person in general.
One of my best players ever is an ex-Catholic. He's now a 'militant agnostic' in his own words. I have also played with a Buddhist, who was similarly amazing in-game, and a Satanist who was also pretty cool.
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I'm almost thirteen now and I don't think you really need to "tone it down" unless you're playing with some catholic Christians or something (which you would probably want to avoid).
Are we going down this road again?
As to the question at hand -- "Dark fantasy ... a problem with kids playing in the group?" Ultimately it will depend on the kids and the what they can or cannot handle. Basically it comes down to the individual in question. There is a lot of "gray" here and there probably isn't one answer for it -- I can find 13 year olds that are fine with it and ones that aren't (and religion has little to nothing to do with it).
My parents raised me on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. It...um...scared my kindergarten teacher that I kept 'correcting' the Disney versions of the stories. In fact, I scared just about everyone. I still do...Those stories are great...
Anyway I've been playing since I was five and nothing has ever really bothered me about it. I'm almost thirteen now and I don't think you really need to "tone it down" unless you're playing with some catholic Christians or something (which you would probably want to avoid).
I would really go off on you about how silly this comment is, but taking your age into consideration, I'll let it pass as a young pup wanting to have his say.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I would really go off on you about how silly this comment is, but taking your age into consideration, I'll let it pass as a young pup wanting to have his say.Anyway I've been playing since I was five and nothing has ever really bothered me about it. I'm almost thirteen now and I don't think you really need to "tone it down" unless you're playing with some catholic Christians or something (which you would probably want to avoid).
You are quite astute, Mr. Greer. I managed to miss that statement on my initial reading.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I did notice the age, which affected the tone of my reply. But I think it's particularly important to call children on these sorts of comments. I would hope that my son would never do this, but if he did, I'd also hope someone would demonstrate that casual bigotry does not go unchallenged.
A noble stance on such matters. I agree.
Back to the topic at hand... :)
Right now we don't have anyone under the age of 13 gaming with my group. All of my group are in their 30's, and we're a fairly raunchy bunch at times (group consists of 2 men and 2 women...the women, my wife and her sister, are the raunchier ones :D). There are several "dark" and "adult" elements that are part of the campaign I'm running that are fine for all of us.
For someone of a young age it would have to depend on the maturity factor. I have a 2 year old that I hope will start gaming in a few years, but I certainly won't be starting him out with the darker aspects. If down the road he proves that he can handle them then that's fine. I started gaming at age 11 and I was pretty mature for my age and able to handle dark and adult content. Not every kid is like that though.
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My parents raised me on the original Grimm's Fairy Tales. It...um...scared my kindergarten teacher that I kept 'correcting' the Disney versions of the stories. In fact, I scared just about everyone. I still do...Those stories are great...
Anyway I've been playing since I was five and nothing has ever really bothered me about it. I'm almost thirteen now and I don't think you really need to "tone it down" unless you're playing with some catholic Christians or something (which you would probably want to avoid).
Isn't a hyrax one of those freakish little African woodchuck things that through some bizarre evolutionary coincidence happen to be related to elephants?
I think a 13 year old can handle madness beyond reality.Especially if they go to public school.
Oh yeah.
Sitting in history class causes 1d6/1d8 SAN damage. Ia!
I did notice the age, which affected the tone of my reply. But I think it's particularly important to call children on these sorts of comments. I would hope that my son would never do this, but if he did, I'd also hope someone would demonstrate that casual bigotry does not go unchallenged.A noble stance on such matters. I agree.
Wow, should have figured that comment would go up for dispute...
Anyway, one last note on the subject.I do speak from partly from the stereotypical Cristian standpoint (that D&D is satanic) and also partly from experience.
I actually know a Cristian who is quite a good D&D player and apologize if anyone was offended. (my age should not be put into question as I actually like to argue with adults)
Most children like to argue with adults.
You are absolutely right about some kids being more mature and able to handle the game more than others. My 13 year old is far more capable of the mechanical aspects of D&D than my 16 year old is, and enjoys it more. The oldest boy just wants to hack and slash, go figure. Incidentally (sp?) the 13 year old is the one who likes to read Eddings and slept with a rancor when he was little. He still has the rancor, but now it's on his shelf.It's true. I'm 38, and most 13 yr. olds are more mature than me.
I can handle C'thulhu though. I pappy slap his tentnickles slap off his face.
ME too, whether 38 are 13 fart jokes are still funny.
What is it with men and fart jokes? I can't get through a single game night without having to open all the windows in the house. I have noticed, the more beer consumed, the funnier farting seems to become. *sigh* sometimes I hate being the only girl in our games.
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What is it with men and fart jokes? I can't get through a single game night without having to open all the windows in the house. I have noticed, the more beer consumed, the funnier farting seems to become. *sigh* sometimes I hate being the only girl in our games.
I think that the beer is the key component. I never touch the stuff, and I've never found fart jokes funny.
I'm one of the few adult (though my adult status is open to debate. :) males I know that do not and really have never found fart jokes to be funny at all. Maybe my man card will be revoked. *shrug*
I'm not much of a drinker (lost my little brother to a drunk driver) but I've found most men make a big deal out of farts. You two seem to be out of the norm, I'm playing with you guys.
What is it with men and fart jokes? I can't get through a single game night without having to open all the windows in the house. I have noticed, the more beer consumed, the funnier farting seems to become. *sigh* sometimes I hate being the only girl in our games.
I've heard this before.
What is it with men and fart jokes? I can't get through a single game night without having to open all the windows in the house. I have noticed, the more beer consumed, the funnier farting seems to become. *sigh* sometimes I hate being the only girl in our games.I think that the beer is the key component. I never touch the stuff, and I've never found fart jokes funny.
I don't like beer either. That's why I drink Whiskey.
I still laugh at farts. Hot spicy food helps.
Whiskey and hot spicy food, not for the weak of stomach.