I found this samurai class online http://www.d20ragon.com/frank/class/samurai.htm (Well I can't link it because I'm lame.) I like it, but I think it may be a little over the top. What do ya'll think of it? I've been looking for a good samurai class if anyone knows of one. I was very disappointed with the Compelete Warrior samurai.
Fizz
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besides the fact that the base attack bonus is broken, which i'm sure you noticed. It seems like the special abilities that he gains are much too powerful like the ability terrible blows that allows him to bypass all DR, thats too powerful, especially at sixth level. one last thing, if the samurai has to obey a lord then how could he be any other alignment than lawful.
does the skill: Knowledge (all skills individually) mean that he has all of the knowledges?
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I found this samurai class online THE NEW AND IMPROVED LINK. I like it, but I think it may be a little over the top. What do ya'll think of it? I've been looking for a good samurai class if anyone knows of one. I was very disappointed with the Compelete Warrior samurai.
Fizz
Fixed. You are welcome.
FH
Dood, that class is whacked out. Try the Sammy from OA. Full BAB, lawful, forget saves, but I think as fighter. Gets free MW daisho @ 1st level, and then bonus feats every 4 levels (IIRC?). 4 skillpoints, martial, light, medium armor, no shields. Tired of base classes trying to give a kewl feature every level.
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Also that class is the definition of broken. The ancestral weapon abilities (ignoring magic bestowed AC, ignoring ALL AC, etc.) and the ability to auto-confirm your level divided by 2 +2 times a day is insane! With a full BAB! At 10th level I could auto-crit 7 times a day! That is crazy!
My suggestion is look at Tomb of Battle and take a Warblade, limit them to a stance that fits with your ideal on what a Samurai entails (Stone dragon?) and add some fluff to make up for the lack of variety. Maybe they can use manuevers 2 times per encounter each or something before they need to refocus. You could give them a custom list of manuevers.
FH
besides the fact that the base attack bonus is broken, which i'm sure you noticed. It seems like the special abilities that he gains are much too powerful like the ability terrible blows that allows him to bypass all DR, thats too powerful, especially at sixth level. one last thing, if the samurai has to obey a lord then how could he be any other alignment than lawful.
does the skill: Knowledge (all skills individually) mean that he has all of the knowledges?
Yeah alot of it seemed way over the top, but I liked what he was trying to go for. I think alot of tuning down is needed to make it playable. I don't have the OA book. I always heard it wasn't worth it. I might have to give it a look.
Thanks FH for the use of your linking abilities
Fizz
IMO, OA was one of the best 3.0 sourcebooks. I just liked pulling stuff out of it and watching my players go "WHAAA?!??!!?"
if the samurai has to obey a lord then how could he be any other alignment than lawful.
The fix that by allowing him to be a "Ronin". To me it looks like a cheesy way to get all the super powered Samurai feats/ablities without havin to actually be loyal to a lord. Its crap. Only super munchkins should want to play this version of this class. As far as I know traditionally speaking being a Ronin was nothing to be proud of. It usually ment your lord died and you weren't able (good enough) to find a new one. After a while it became more and more of a disgrace to you and your family. It was nothing you chose to be because you thought you were to cool to serve. If you thought that you usually weren't cool enough to be trained by the masters.
Oriental Adventures, despite being 3.0, is still full of very good information and ideas, not to mention the oriental dragons and oni. Good for ideas, a lot of the stuff in there has been converted to 3.5 in other books (the wu-jen and shugenja in Complete Divine and Complete Arcane, for example), but I always felt OA was "Rokugan Lite." I think OA would have been a much stronger book if the Legend of the Five Rings stuff wasn't in there (I enjoyed the stuff, but compared to the Rokugan d20 book they did put out, I felt somewhat cheated).
I found this samurai class online THE NEW AND IMPROVED LINK. I like it, but I think it may be a little over the top. What do ya'll think of it? I've been looking for a good samurai class if anyone knows of one. I was very disappointed with the Compelete Warrior samurai.
Fizz
Fixed. You are welcome.
FH
I like this particular Samurai however I have always thought that there needed to be more hand to hand stuff involved with that class
OMG... I don't even know where to start...
Multiple auto crits per day? Non-slashing vorpal weapons? Ignore damage reduction/hardness? Ignore AC bonuses from armor/natural armor/magic? Just to name a few of it's TWENTY-TWO class features!
This is simply the bastard love child of a power-gamer and someone who wishes that he might know something about samurai.
The OA samurai is fine. imo...
I mean... Automatic critical attacks of opprotunity through a wall of force with a vorpal/ghost touch mace? Yeah... I'm sure. Oh, and don't forget the ability to walk into a town and instantly kill anyone you see, suck their soul, gain another auto crit, kill another, repeat, repeat, repeat...
-Kurocyn
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Just read it. It's senselessly overpowered. Period. Even for a high level ability, automatic criticals on attacks of opportunity?!? That's just madness. Here's the stuff I DON'T think is ridiculous:
- The Vorpal quality being granted to his weapons, though I think it should wait a couple more levels. Getting it at 14 is just a little early. 17 would be more appropriate.
That's it. Everything else is either unfaithful to the concept (Whirlwind Attack, Parrying Magic, etc.) or grossly overpowered (ghost touch weapons at 1st level?!?).
A "samurai" is nothing but an upper-class, Japanese Fighter.Take the core Fighter class, and every third or fourth level multiclass him Aristocrat or Expert for a few extra Skill Points and a Will Save bump.
There ... instant Core-Rules Samurai. Now the question is simply one of Feats.
This is the fighters dirty little secret. Really it can be any martial class - especially if your using a lot of splat books and the PHB2 as know you have access to enough feats to build almost any class desired. As a side bonus its basically a balanced class.
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I think I'll limit my comments to just saying that there's nothing particularly special about the material or usage of the Katana and that the West had martial arts schools every bit as well-developed as those in Japan. We know less about the western schools because they were largely obsoleted by firearms in the 17th-18th centuries, while the Japanese schools were still running at the time of the Meiji Restoration.
BTW, "... simply bashing with it ..." is no more likely to be a useful tactic when using a Greatsword than when using a Katana.
I'm going to try to make a Samurai class by using stealing and mixing from the samurai, fighter, paladin, and if I can get my hands on them i'll take a look at OA and The Quintessential Samurai. I hope it works out right.
Fizz
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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If you really want to make a psuedo-mystical samurai, I would use monk as the base class and make the following alterations:
- Remove all the supernatural and spell-like abilities (abundant step, Wholeness of Body, all that junk).
- Keep the Wisdom bonus to AC and the class AC bonus, but also keep the restriction that these cannot be used if the 'samurai' wears armor of any kind.
- Limit the speed bonuses that the class receives to max out at +30 feet.
- Change a few skills around. Samurai should not have Hide and Move Silently, for example, but should probably have Diplomacy and Intimidate.
- Allow the flurry of blows, magic, lawful, and adamantine strike abilities to apply to the character's daisho.
- Provide fighter bonus feats to fill in a few of the 'blanks.'
You end up with something that's more like Kenshin than traditional samurai since it can't wear armor, but at least (at first glance anyway) is seems functional without being overpowered.
I think I'll limit my comments to just saying that there's nothing particularly special about the material or usage of the Katana and that the West had martial arts schools every bit as well-developed as those in Japan. We know less about the western schools because they were largely obsoleted by firearms in the 17th-18th centuries, while the Japanese schools were still running at the time of the Meiji Restoration.
BTW, "... simply bashing with it ..." is no more likely to be a useful tactic when using a Greatsword than when using a Katana.
Very true. I don't want a super samurai. I just want more of a fedual japan style warrior, with a few different technics. Hopefully OA or Quintessential Samurai will have more the feel I want.
Fizz
Oddly anough I wached something on the history channel that claimed the rapier was one of the deadlest sword ever used. I don't know how true that is or if it could ever really be proven, but I think anything sharp or heavy enough to kill me is deadly. I don't want to be clubed in the head with a rock any more than ran threw with a sword.
If you really want to make a psuedo-mystical samurai, I would use monk as the base class and make the following alterations:
- Remove all the supernatural and spell-like abilities (abundant step, Wholeness of Body, all that junk).
- Keep the Wisdom bonus to AC and the class AC bonus, but also keep the restriction that these cannot be used if the 'samurai' wears armor of any kind.
- Limit the speed bonuses that the class receives to max out at +30 feet.
- Change a few skills around. Samurai should not have Hide and Move Silently, for example, but should probably have Diplomacy and Intimidate.
- Allow the flurry of blows, magic, lawful, and adamantine strike abilities to apply to the character's daisho.
- Provide fighter bonus feats to fill in a few of the 'blanks.'
You end up with something that's more like Kenshin than traditional samurai since it can't wear armor, but at least (at first glance anyway) is seems functional without being overpowered.
I think FS may have hit it on the head. I thought about the monk and their abilites, but wasn't sure. I'm not sure which way I'm heading with this but the ball is rolling.
Fizz
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Bards can KmA too ;-)
What are you, a Commoner? Bards can kick your ... oh wait, you meant "kiss".
8-)
I agree with your solution, but I don't think the current feat and skill-point budgets (even for fighters) allow for enough stuff. The equivalent class from Iron Heroes, though, looks like lots of fun.
IMO, OA was one of the best 3.0 sourcebooks. I just liked pulling stuff out of it and watching my players go "WHAAA?!??!!?"
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Not denying that. That's the reason the game has Weapon Finesse. It's just we're talking about Japanese-inspired samurai here and not a French or Italian duelist.
Sorry to overreact. Samurai fanboyism is a pervasive problem and I tend to have my triggers set a little light when discussing them. Assume that I meant that comment for all those people that don't understand. 8-)
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If you're like me and stick to flexible Core classes, a multi-classes level or Expert every so often does wonders for Skill Points ... particularly if you HR that Expert skills remain classed when advancing in non-Expert levels (in my game you must maintain a 3:1 level ratio for this benefit).
That would certainly help loosen things up a bit. Since I'm at least considering giving the equivalent of Able Learner to all PCs, I don't think it's overpowered.
If you want a class that is called Samurai, I second (thrid? fourth?) the version from Oriental Adventures as a great option.
The other option is to simply play a fighter and roleplay him as a samurai. This is actually the strength of the fighter. You can build basically whatever melee combatant you want with him.
Likewise, take a look at the calsses out of the Tome of Battle. You can easily change the flavour of any of them to match what yo uwant form your Samurai.
A third option would be Paladin, and again, change the flavour to be more Samurai.
Really, there are many options if you don't limit yourself to the "official" falvour of the various classes. You could even play a rogue that traded Sneak Attack for Fighter feats (ala Unearthed Arcana), and call him a Samurai.
Ah, it's Frank's samurai class. I've mentioned this fellow before in my blog.
This samurai prestige class is most definitely overpowered, by normal D&D standards - its author is aware of this. Frank's design philosophy is that a level is worthless if it grants no class ability, and that a single character of any class should be able to hold his own against a creature of a challenge rating equal to the character's level.
Objectively, this character class really is quite powerful, compared even to the strongest regular character classes. At level 3 he gains the ability to automatically declare successful hit to be a critical, several times per day (and at level 17 he gains an extra use that day for each opponent he drops). Level 4, he gets whirlwind attack without any prerequisites. Level 5, he gets commune once per day. Level 6, he ignores all damage reduction. Level 10, he can cut through any wall, even a wall of force. At level 11 he can spend all his attacks of opportunity on one person who provokes them. At level 16 he can spend an AoO to reflect back any spell at its caster, and at level 19 his AoOs automatically always crit.
By level 20 his weapon is effectively a +5 ghost touch vorpal sword which ignores armour, natural armour, cover and magical bonuses to AC, bypasses all damage reduction and hardness, and automatically reflects magic. He can declare twelve attacks per day to be critical hits after they hit, one more for every opponent he fells, and he automatically gets free crits on Attacks of Opportunity, which he can make his full complement of on a single target each round.
So yeah, it's a little more powerful than the standard melee classes...
I like it, but I think it may be a little over the top. What do ya'll think of it?
It's vastly overpowered for standard D&D. If you want a good Samurai, there are a number of ways to achieve it:
Use the Oriental Adventures Samurai.
Modify the Knight from PHBII to use the Samurai code rather than the Knight's code.
Use a Fighter.
I believe Green Ronin did a 'Noble' class. If you multiclass that with Fighter, you get an even better Samurai than just a straight Fighter. (Or, use Aristocrat. You might try to persuade your DM to give you an 'extra' level because the Ari is an NPC class.)
Use the Bo9S Warblade.
Use a Paladin/Monk. It worked for one 'Samurai' of note...
Miko, from Order of the Stick. :)
Beyond that, I agree with what has been said on this thread before; go with a Fighter, possibly mix it up with some Aristocrat or Expert, and you have yourself a Samurai.
I've started stripping down and rebuilding a monk swordsman. However, while doing this I have came to the assumtion IMO the monk may be over powered. I've taken away half the monk abilites and i still think I could play the monk with no problem. Oh well that can be a different thread. I've taken some of FS's ideas. Flurry of Blows with their ancestral weapon, Wis AC, uped the BAB, dropped the saves, halfed the movement bonuses, cut most of the body stuff, changed the spell resistance around, let ki strike aply to their ancestral weapon, etc. I'll post the class when I'm done, but works getting in my way now...Damn you money!!!
Fizz
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Personally, I like the OA Samurai ... but I actually like the Rokugan variant better. It has an XP twist to ancestral swords, and feats and techniques specific to each of the clans.
I'd go with Oriental Adventures' Samurai, unless you can get your hands on the Rokugan Campaign Setting Core Rulebook from AEG.
Oddly anough I wached something on the history channel that claimed the rapier was one of the deadlest sword ever used. I don't know how true that is or if it could ever really be proven, but I think anything sharp or heavy enough to kill me is deadly. I don't want to be clubed in the head with a rock any more than ran threw with a sword.
Once firearms made armor more or less obsolete, HC is on the money, or so my doctor friends tell me-- they claim that deep puncture wounds are almost always more serious than slashing-type wounds. Dunno why that would be, unless the punctures tend to threaten internal organs, whereas slashes just cause a lot of surface trauma and blood loss?
There is a pretty good essay comparing katanas and rapiers on the ARMA website (I don't have the link).
But I think in part it is the rapiers speed and the effect of multiple hits, as well as the puncture vs slashing wound factor.
Another factor to remember is that while katanas have a pretty high romance factor associated with them, are extraordinary weapons, and while there were most assuredly masters, most samurai were not particularly skilled with them - nor were they in most cases the weapon of choice on the battle field (That honor fell to bows and spears). While the skill of samurai has been greatly extolled - the skill of european style fencers has been portrayed as almost foppish. The history however shows that the art and science of rapier fencing was highly developed - and that the general level of experience in was actually pretty high in many circles. Skill (and the frequency of it) as well as the weapon itself (which is awesome) make rapiers dangerous.
Historically, combat was an arms race of weapons and defences against those weapons. This was true until crossbows and guns made heavy armour and training largely ineffective, making knights useless on the battlefield compared to a band of peasants or mercenaries. I imagine that the move to light armours, which were much more affordable (heavy armour was now expensive and unnecessary), made rapiers more useful.
I think katanas are still reasonably heavy, compared to a rapier - you couldn't, for example, wield a katana effectively in each hand, since it's a slashing kind of weapon. Rapiers were quicker and more versatile.
Still, samurais and katanas are pretty cool. If anime is correct, samurai could jump twenty feet in the air, could cut someone such that they would appear fine for several seconds until their head fell off, and regularly used such techniques as blocking sword attacks with their wooden sandals.
True, but IIRC the niten school you are referrring to used the wakazashi as a defensive weapon, much like the main gauche style in europeanfencing. In fact, there is speculation that it was this western style, brought to japan by the portugese, that inspired musashi to develop it.
Back to the topic of katanas. I just leave it that the katana is a MW bastard sword and move on, cuz thats all it was. As was already pointed out, most samaurai used thier swords as a back up weapon, or for duels with other sammies, relying first on the bow and spear in combat. What does this have to do with DnD? Not a damn thing, but its nice to know :)
Now to the posted/pasted class- While I understand the idea that a character should be able to take on a CR equivalent critter, its not the way DnD works. It should take 4 level 5 guys to take out a CR5 critter, and it should use up roughly 20% of the parties resources. Thats HP, spell, and other consumables. The class as written, is indeed broken and overpowered in relation to the core game. But if thats the game your friend wants to run, then have fun. One of the cooler features of the OA sammie was the Iajutsu focus skill and use. Opposing rolls for duels, which I stole for later use in my campaign. It will allow a sammie to take out another sammie in a SINGLE sword strike, which is cool, yeah? :)