I'm guessing that Paizo won't part with the data in question, but on the off chance they will, what's the size of Dungeon's circulation?
I know one other person that buys the magazine, so it has to be higher than two . . .
Creative Director
|
I'm guessing that Paizo won't part with the data in question, but on the off chance they will, what's the size of Dungeon's circulation?
I know one other person that buys the magazine, so it has to be higher than two . . .
Actually, we print that info once a year (all magazines have to do this, actually), so it's pretty much a matter of public record. The last time we updated the info was back in issue #142 on page 82... at which point Dungeon had an average circulation of 32,391 copies per issue.
Thanks for the info James!!
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
(32,391 copies per issue) * (12 months) * ($8 cover price)= chunk o' change
...and the majority of that money gets kept by retail and distribution. Much of the rest goes to cover the cost of printing all of the issues that the bookstores and newsstands order and then destroy unsold and don't pay for (and there's no indication of that number in the statement published in the magazine, but I'll tell you it's *crazy* huge). And then most of the money we *do* actually get doesn't show up for the better part of a year after the magazines come out.
Don't be fooled—the magazine business is a terrible, terrible business to be in, which is why Paizo is doing so many non-magazine things. Fortunately, Dungeon and Dragon benefit from a strong subscriber base, and strong sales in hobby channels, where retailers actually pay for 100% of the issues they buy. Both magazines are profitable, but the numbers are nowhere near as good as your equation suggests.
I'm in the newspaper business and it's another troubled industry. Darn that Internet!
I've seen those numbers before, but I keep hearing from WotC that there are something like 10 million D&D players in the world. And only 0.3% of them buy Dungeon or Dragon? I'm betting the actual D&D roleplayer base is far smaller than WotC makes it out to be.
|
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
|
I've seen those numbers before, but I keep hearing from WotC that there are something like 10 million D&D players in the world. And only 0.3% of them buy Dungeon or Dragon? I'm betting the actual D&D roleplayer base is far smaller than WotC makes it out to be.
And you would be 100% correct.
--Erik
Contributor
|
I've seen those numbers before, but I keep hearing from WotC that there are something like 10 million D&D players in the world. And only 0.3% of them buy Dungeon or Dragon? I'm betting the actual D&D roleplayer base is far smaller than WotC makes it out to be.
If by "players" you mean "people who have seen the inside of one of the books" then yes, I might believe the 10 million number. Otherwise, I think that's wishful thinking.
A circulation of 32,000+ is certainly nothing to sneeze at. I would assume that Dragon's circulation is better than Dungeon's since there's a built in reason that less people are going to want Dungeon.
Still . . .
In my current group of people I game with (11 people), only two purchase Dungeon and no one to my knowledge purchases Dragon. If I extend that to the people I have regularly gamed with since I started in 2001 (a grand total of 24 people) you can add one person that I knew purchased Dragon. And it's not like one individual purchases the magazine and shares it with the group . . .
We're basically the group you would expect to purchase said magazines since were mostly hard core gamers that have a fair amount of disposable income. So, my hunch is that there's room for improvement in those numbers, particularly with respect to Dragon's circulation.
As for 10 million gamers worldwide, it's in WOTC's interests to inflate the size of the gamer market. It makes the division look more valuable to Hasbro's shareholders and bigwigs. It'd be interesting to see how they came up with that number.
A circulation of 32,000+ is certainly nothing to sneeze at. I would assume that Dragon's circulation is better than Dungeon's since there's a built in reason that less people are going to want Dungeon.
Still . . .
In my current group of people I game with (11 people), only two purchase Dungeon and no one to my knowledge purchases Dragon. If I extend that to the people I have regularly gamed with since I started in 2001 (a grand total of 24 people) you can add one person that I knew purchased Dragon. And it's not like one individual purchases the magazine and shares it with the group . . .
I think Dragon's sales are larger.
I buy Dragon regularly at the newstand, and I've never been able to find a copy of Dungeon at any of the bookstores or comic shops in my area (Southeast Tennessee). I've asked the large bookstores and they've told me that they used to carry Dungeon, but stopped because it didn't sell as well as Dragon (which they all still carry).
John
If by "players" you mean "people who have seen the inside of one of the books" then yes, I might believe the 10 million number. Otherwise, I think that's wishful thinking.I've seen those numbers before, but I keep hearing from WotC that there are something like 10 million D&D players in the world. And only 0.3% of them buy Dungeon or Dragon? I'm betting the actual D&D roleplayer base is far smaller than WotC makes it out to be.
Unless they are somehow counting those "casual" players that play DnD, but don't buy the books.
Out of 8 regulars players in our weekly game (7 PCs + the DM), we've got 2-3 that haven't bought any books since the advent of 3.0/3.5, if at all.
One is an older player who has all the pre-3.0 books, but when he got back into the game, he has just borrowed stuff from us, and purchased the odd PDF for reference (Not sure if PDF sales count)
The other two are girlfriends that got drawn into the game because their signifigant others play. The genuinely enjoy it, and have played for a couple years with us now... but I can't think of any books or magazines they have actually bought themselves. Sure they buy dice and minis, but do you really need your own copy of the PHB if you live with someone who already has one?
So that is 3/8 players at our table that don't really "contribute" to WOTC book sales, although they do buy dice and minis.
Maybe the Wizards "10 Million" figure was trying in some fashion to take such players into account?
And you would be 100% correct.
Ain't marketing grand. "All hail the hypno-toad!"
It's probably less than a million, from what little I know of merchandise sales, forum memberships, advertising campaigns, etc. Just a little speculative math: Assuming 10% of DMs buy Dungeon, and that the average group has 1 DM , 4 players, gives us 32,000 x 5 x 10 = 1.6 million D&D participants. But we don't know how many people buy Dungeon without being in an active group. Or whether 10% is realistic for this particular hobby.
Still, you guys put out top-notch product for our little hobby, so keep it up.