I have a friend who is thinking about buying some of either the Forgotten Realms or Eberron books and DMing a few campiagns in the them. He asked me which one is better but seeing as I have never actually played in either of them, only flipped through them at the book store. I was wondering what everyone's opinions were on them. Which is better? What is each one like?
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I have a friend who is thinking about buying some of either the Forgotten Realms or Eberron books and DMing a few campiagns in the them. He asked me which one is better but seeing as I have never actually played in either of them, only flipped through them at the book store. I was wondering what everyone's opinions were on them. Which is better? What is each one like?
FR is very detailed and, in my opinion, an uber-magic setting. I don't own any of the Eberron products, but have heard it described as very steam-punk/technomagic.
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FR has a huge amount of history, which is probably the big defining element of the setting. Over the years, a detailed history of the setting has been developed going back thousands of years, and this has some ramifications for the "current age" setting. It has also been played in for years, and there are lots and lots of novels set there, so it has a lot of canonical aspects to it that can be tripped over. There are also loads of supplements and adventures, in various editions, which can be mined for inspiration.
The actual setting has a number of key regions which vary in tone: the North is quite Tolkien-ish and is the centre of most of the setting's development, so it has the most detail. The southern areas have a more Arabian Nights feel, while the eastern areas have a cod-Egyptian empire, the Red Wizards and a few other bits and pieces.
The other major thing about FR is the uber-NPC - lots and lots of well-known epic level NPCs who have been in various novels and been movers and shakers in its history. The PCs can sometimes look like nobodies compared with the "real" heroes of the novels.
Eberron has, obviously, only existed for a few years and as such the canonical features of it are limited, less detailed and, in some ways, more open to DM interpretation. It has less of a Tolkienish feel to it (deliberately), and has more of a "magic as technology" feel - i.e. it uses low level magic a lot in day-to-day life, as it is commecially available, though high level magic is probably rarer than in FR (due to the lack of high level NPCs - see below). The feel is less medieval, more a sort of Renaissance/industrial feel in some ways. It is also more overtly involved in political and commercial machinations, and aims for a more gritty, noirish feel.
However, most NPCs are of limited levels - most are below 5th level, even some quite major NPCs such as kings (though I have noticed some upward level creep in some of the supplements). This means that the PCs are the big movers and shakers, rather than being overshadowed by Elminster and his crew. That said, Eberron probably works better in mid-level play rather than at higher levels, as the challenges tend to be skewed that way in the books (FR accommodates epic play more easily) though of course a creative DM could achieve anything.
They are both great settings, though different. I have DM'ed both, and my personal preference is probably for Eberron as it chimes with me better. FR can be harder work if you are concerned with avoiding breaking with precedent, since you need to check what you are doing more. But for a good, "traditional" feeling high fantasy, FR is hard to beat (at least in 3.0 or 3.5). For a grittier, grungier feel, Eberron is maybe better. But my experience is that it generally boils down to the PCs hitting the bad guys with swords, irrespective of the setting.
With the Forgotten Realms, you can always lower the amount of magic. The detail of the setting is incredible, and could be easily run with most any adventure in Dungeon. With Eberron, in my opinion, there's really no way to de-techopunk it (nor does it have the standard high fantasy feel to it).
I'd get FR if it's a choice between the two, or even tracking down all the old Greyhawk material that's available if you don't have it - before getting Eberron.
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Well, it sounds to me like the two of you are fairly new to gaming. If this individual has never run a D&D game before (or has run very few games), I would recommend FR 100% and here's why:
FR conforms to the standard D&D rules that you're probably used to. Aside from a few obscure things from supplements, FR is pretty much 'basic' D&D (i.e. very similar to the core rules outlined in the PHB & DMG). FR does have a whole new (extensive) list of deities and several new domains for clerics to choose from, but that's about it. Everything else is standard.
With Eberron, you have several new races: the shifters, the changelings, the kalashtar, and the warforged. You have a new class: the Artificer. You also have organized nations run by monsterous humanoids, blurred alignment restrictions (evil clerics can follow a good deity because they BELIEVE they are doing good), alternate racial roles (the elves from Valanar are *NOT* traditional elves), and all sorts of alternate magic rules (especially for item creation pertaining to Dragonshards).
I think, for people who are not yet veteran gamers, FR is your best bet. If I'm mistaken in my judgement and the DM in question is sufficiently experienced, then either choice is fair. Hope this helps!
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A lot of really good advice. Overall, I would agree with Aubrey. However, here are a few additional thoughts.
START SMALL. There are around 10 or more gaming books for Eberron. There are 19 or more gaming books for Forgotten Realms. That is a whole lot of material to try and sift through if you are just starting out.
Again, Aubrey had a great breakdown of the different settings. My suggestion is to pick one of the worlds and pick a small corner of that world to play in. Purchase the campaign setting and the player's guide of the appropriate setting and maybe one of the more localized books. Play in the one corner of the world and if you like how it is going, expand from there. Ask people here if you are thinking about purchasing certain expansion books as some are better than others.
Personally, I prefer Eberron. Probably for the simple reason that it isn't so well defined. I like to feel like I can have more liberties with messing with the world than I felt with Forgotten Realms. (I still messed with Forgotten Realms plenty, but I never felt like I should be.)
Regardless -- there isn't a "wrong" choice. A lot of it boils down to preference.
Another thing- sometimes it can be hard to understand why a certain setting "prefers" low and mid level play (like Eberron) vs. high and epic level play (Forgotten Realms). It has to do with the way the world is described.
When you look at Eberron materials, you get the feel that there is plenty of stuff to do and explore at the local village level of things. There aren't that many high-level NPCs, which makes it harder to come up with things to do unless you invent it all yourself (which isn't bad, but might not "feel" like what's in the books, which is what directs these setting "preferences").
Forgotten Realms has tons and tons of named NPCs of 15th+ level. Many have access to 9th level spells. A lot of its history and lore revolves around the activities of gods and the machinations of dragons and archmages, who wield powerful, powerful magic. And as mentioned before, the "main" NPCs like Elminster are EPIC. That's why it can be hard to figure out what in the world your party will be doing at the low levels. It just seems that there are so many powerful people running around that all the villains and plots should be set on their scale. Of course, there are plenty of low level guys out there; the uber-NPCs can't be everywhere, leaving tons of goblin dens to clear and ruins to loot for novice adventurers.
And yes, it does feel like every square inch of the Forgotten Realms has had a novel written about it, and it can really make you feel "guilty" for purposefully going against that precedent and lore, or just not checking it. If you don't have players who are FR junkies, they won't know and you can get away with it.
while the eastern areas have a cod-Egyptian empire,
Is this a historical or cultural term I'm not aware of? It sounds a little fishy to me.
"Thoth's ancient wisdom passed to Pisces-Khetys II..."
...Forgotten Realms has tons and tons of named NPCs of 15th+ level. Many have access to 9th level spells. A lot of its history and lore revolves around the activities of gods and the machinations of dragons and archmages, who wield powerful, powerful magic. And as mentioned before, the "main" NPCs like Elminster are EPIC. That's why it can be hard to figure out what in the world your party will be doing at the low levels. It just seems that there are so many powerful people running around that all the villains and plots should be set on their scale. Of course, there are plenty of low level guys out there; the uber-NPCs can't be everywhere, leaving tons of goblin dens to clear and ruins to loot for novice adventurers. ...
I think it's actually easier to play low levels in the Forgotten Realms, particularly knowing the various power-groups in different regions. Although a player would likely not encounter Elminster or other uber-FR types while playing lvl 1-5, you have a very rich and compelling background for your adventure canvas.
The thing about FR, you could easily fit any low lvl Dungeon adventure into the setting. Just like Greyhawk. And that's saying a lot. The FR setting really is basic fantasy, without having extensive adaptations and the peculiar semi-industrialized feel of Eberron. To me, Eberron just feels wrong for play, precisely because of that. With FR, there are so many regions and "states" that each pull for a distinctive medieval feel... everything from oriental adventures to medieval europe, with all that's in-between. If you tire of one region, take a ship to another.
And nothing says you have to completely follow the accepted lore of the FR books. In my FR campaign, the whole Cyric-Mystra thing never happened and the gods are far more distant. We also tend more toward plots with intrigue and political machinations, rather than standard hack-and-slash (although there are times when we do that also). It's a rich, inviting tapestry, and you don't necessarily need to buy every single book out there on FR. Many things are available cheaply by PDF or are even free from the Wizards of the Coast website.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and neither one of them is "better" than the other - that's a very subjective opinion. The biggest hurdle in running a Forgotten Realms campaign is the truckloads of material out there for it. If you're lucky enough to have players that don't mind you running fast & loose with canon material, consider yourself lucky (I know I do). If you don't want to have players saying "Didn't X happen in Y, and on Z date," then perhaps the Realms aren't for you. However, if your DM says "Tough, it's my game, deal with it" more power to the both of you.
Eberron has a certain feel to it that I like. So does Forgotten Realms. So does Greyhawk. Again, they all have their strengths and weaknesses and which one is "better" is a subjective opinion, which everyone will differ on.
Regardless of which one you choose, make the setting your own. If something doesn't meld with your view of things, change it. I never want my players running into characters featured in novels for either setting: the players are the stars. Make your own NPCs, change elements of the ones already there, it's your game.
I agree with James with make the PCs the stars. All the epic level people name in the supplements are busy doing their own plans and plots. Too busy to notice the players. They can't be everywhere at once. I would only even use those named NPCs if the player understood who they were meeting. If you don't know Elminster, meeting him isn't that big of a deal. Cryptic old man that smoke a pipe that can get lippy from time to time. Big deal unless you know that background. FR has all the info and then some you could want for an area. All the work done for you. Which is a plus or minus.
I've been reading the Eberron books quite a lot lately, and have played a campaign or two, and I am beginning to prefer it. HOWEVER. FR I still think is better for the newer players. The roles are traditional, there aren't ten thousand plots within plots (just three), and you can just select a region book and run to 20th level with it. Also, when I was a rookee DM I had trouble keeping noncombat villains alive. Some PC rogue would assassinate them in three seconds and I was done. I learned tricks to avoid this later in my career, but when the bad guys are a half doze beholder liches it's not that much of an issue.
But really, it's all about mood. Iffin you want steampunk and intrigue, take Eberron. Iffin you want action and an epic world (and the best pantheon of Gods ever) take FR.