No offence but you gotta admit, he WAS a little bit silly.
Even when I was a kid I was baffled by his persona. Maybe coz I'm not an American but I would think: "what's his deal? I mean Spiderman has spider powers, Batman has bat features, Captain America has ... America powers?" Thank the gods there's no Australia Man. Anyone whose powers are based on a nation's self-image has got to be a tad ridiculous.
*sigh* I guess I'm just not American enough to fully grasp his appeal.
EDIT: I did think his theme-song on TV was pretty catchy though. All I remember now is one of those deep green-beret voices going "When Captain America throws his mighty shieeeeeld..."
There was an Australia Man, but they killed him off too.
Hmmm, still too soon to make Steve Irwin jokes?
No, I believe I did one a few weeks ago, but everyone pretended not to notice! I guess the impersonality of messageboards combined with Aussie irony made everyone unsure how to respond ;)
They killed of Superman too. For what? Eight seconds?
Killing a character off is a way to make him seem more exciting for a brief moment in time. It causes a buzz, leads to greater sales, and allows for a redesign.
Captain America, according to my friend Pat, was quite the player this last year. He and a group of superheroes went AGAINST the US government for fairly good reason. Meanwhile Iron Man and his gang of superheroes are all the sudden fighting for the US government against CA and his allies.
Killing him off is making a martyr of him. He will be back soon with a cooler suit, don't you worry.
The thing to like about Capt America is that, like Batman, he's all man plus some gadgets. I tend to prefer that to SUPERNOVABLASTERGODMAN.
I hope they keep him dead, but they probably won't. Hell, I think they brought freaking Moonknight back, so it's pretty well guaranteed that Captain America will rise from the dead.
Heh.
If I were Captain America right now...I'd probably kill myself.
"When Captain America throws his mighty shieeeeeld..."
"All those who chose to oppose his shield must yieeeeeld..."
Heh.
If I were Captain America right now...I'd probably kill myself.
I think that's what they were going for when he turned against his masters.
This is MARVEL comics we are talking about he'll be back by tuesday...I mean for the love of Kord, they brought back Captain Marvel, who I think played dead longer then the rest of their "dead" characters combined. And Captain Marvel fought real enemies, you know Thanos the GREATEST COMIC BOOK VILLAN EVER!!! Not Nazi losers like the Red Skull; I mean come on, if you had to fight Thanos or the Red Skull only a suicidal maniac would choose Thanos.
"Sweet Steve Rogers Flavor"
You are now allowed to name every future band I'm ever in.
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Unlike most other mediums, comic books have to figure out ways to keep their same old characters fresh with new challenges and new dilemmas. That can wear things really thin after awhile - clone saga anyone? And Cap has been a superhero for what, 60 years?
The reason I stopped collecting most marvel comics a few years back was because I thought the writing had gone a little stale. The last time I enjoyed Captain America was when Mark Waid did a run on the series. These days I only collect Marvel's Moon Knight and Ghost Rider (and they just recently started again), and just finished up with a 5 issue Doctor Strange story. For the most part, I stick with DC. When the "killed" Superman, and broke Batman's back, both were attempts to bring some change into titles that had been around for a bit longer than Cap. And, in my opinion, DC just showed its commitment to good stories by getting rid of those buttheads that started the new Flash series. Man those gusy were terrible.
Anyway, I always liked Captain America as a character, but he probably needed this. I'd love to see them bring Steve Rogers back with a good writer. Or maybe they could have one of his many partners from over the years take up the mantle - like the Falcon.
And just for clarification, Captain America didn't have "America Powers". He had been injected with the Super Soldier formula, which basically takes the person and makes them a paragon of human physical perfection - like taking all the greatest olympic competitors ever and combining them into a single human being. And the only gadget he had was his unbreakable shield (which was actually broken at least once).
They should make the first Captian America (the black guy) take over as the new Captain America. With a new costume -maybe something a little cooler looking like the costume Cap wears in The Ultimates.
I have to admit that I have never really seen Captain America's appeal either (I'm a Brit) as a child I always thought he seemed goofy and camp but then I've never really 'got' or loved any of the non-mutant superheros (apart from maybes Spiderman) -that is starting to change though. I love Runnaways and there are quite a few new heroes I like these days like Gravity.
I don't get the DC heroes at all, Flash, Batman, Superman and what have you -they are a little much for me. I like clones of those guys though, like the Authority and teams like that. Only Grant Morrison has been able to write the icons like Superman/Justice league in a way I can relate to.
If Britain had a true 'Captian' (someone who embodies the soul of our grey depressed nation of idiosyncratic old and new ideals) it would be John Constantine.
Oh and...GO UNION JACK!
They should make the first Captian America (the black guy) take over as the new Captain America. With a new costume -maybe something a little cooler looking like the costume Cap wears in The Ultimates.
Actually, I might even bet a meager sum for the next Captain America to be black...
Actually, I might even bet a meager sum for the next Captain America to be black...
When Tony Stark started drinking too much I believe there was a black replacement for the Iron Man suit. Considering that Captain America and Tony Stark have been squaring off of late, if they replaced CA with a black man as well it would be, by way of character interconnection, a bit of a rehash.
Rather than see a bunch of characters I've come to know get resurrected black, I'd prefer if they spent the time to develop more and more compelling black super heroes. There was a black owned comic book company a few years back that attempted to fill this niche with black superheroes (aw yeah). I wonder how they fared in the market and if they survived in any form or found away to flourish.
Just as long as they give them better names. Did you ever notice that all black superheroes had to have the word "black" in their title?
Like Black Vulcan, Black Panther, Black Green Lantern, etc.
Absolutely.
"Hey, Black Green Lantern!"
"Uh... wha?"
"Black Green Lantern! You're here to save us!"
"Why are you calling me black?"
"That's your name."
"Is this like some kind of your name is Toby thing? Because I will kill you with a thought. Know that."
Rather than see a bunch of characters I've come to know get resurrected black, I'd prefer if they spent the time to develop more and more compelling black super heroes. There was a black owned comic book company a few years back that attempted to fill this niche with black superheroes (aw yeah). I wonder how they fared in the market and if they survived in any form or found away to flourish.
I believe you might be talking about Milestone Comics which was a DC imprint that dealt with minority heroes. Milestone's biggest commercial success came from the teen electric hero Static who had his own cartoon and made recent guest appearances in Justice League Unlimited.
He was actually a pretty cool character.
GGG
PS and the naming convention doesn't hold if you include female characters like Black Canary and Black Widow.
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When Tony Stark started drinking too much I believe there was a black replacement for the Iron Man suit. Considering that Captain America and Tony Stark have been squaring off of late, if they replaced CA with a black man as well it would be, by way of character interconnection, a bit of a rehash.
Jim Rhodes was Stark's replacement as Iron Man for a short while, and he eventually went on to wear similar armor as War Machine. Just so, as I stated previously, I'd love to see someone like Cap's old partner the Falcon take over for Steve Rogers. That would be cool, especially if they got a good writer.
One thing I've always admired about comics was that they had a greater diversity of characters - Men, women, black, white, asian, etc. One of my favorites from Marvel was Blade. And I've always liked John Stewart as a Green Lantern, ever since the Cosmic Odyssey 4 issue series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley
This guy should be the new cap.
I believe you might be talking about Milestone Comics which was a DC imprint that dealt with minority heroes. Milestone's biggest commercial success came from the teen electric hero Static who had his own cartoon and made recent guest appearances in Justice League Unlimited.
He was actually a pretty cool character.
Thanks, Matt
I was actually thinking of one of the earlier independants. They folded.
Check out this 'white man holding us back' account of Milestone's effect on black comics. It suggests deliberate plot to suppress black comics rather than lack of market interest. Fun read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley
This guy should be the new cap.
Click with ease:
One thing I've always admired about comics was that they had a greater diversity of characters - Men, women, black, white, asian, etc. One of my favorites from Marvel was Blade. And I've always liked John Stewart as a Green Lantern, ever since the Cosmic Odyssey 4 issue series.
Check out that linkie I posted above. There's a suggestion that DC deliberately crushed black comic independents (which I fully believe--seems like business as usual) in order to racially suppress the black man's effort (which I don't believe), causing black independents to miss out on the comic hero movie explosion. The site cites that Blade and Spawn are white owned.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_Bradley
This guy should be the new cap.
Click with ease:
Interesting, that is the second charcter they have introduced as being from the same time as the original Cap, Steve Rogers. They also had another convicted prisoner who was given an incomplete version of the formula and died, all before Steve Rogers. In modern (Marvel) time his preserved body was discovered by AIM and he was revived and brainwashed into doing their dirty work. The last I knew he was presumed dead. That was shortly before I stopped collecting CA.
Interesting, that is the second charcter they have introduced as being from the same time as the original Cap, Steve Rogers. They also had another convicted prisoner who was given an incomplete version of the formula and died, all before Steve Rogers. In modern (Marvel) time his preserved body was discovered by AIM and he was revived and brainwashed into doing their dirty work. The last I knew he was presumed dead. That was shortly before I stopped collecting CA.
I really had no idea he existed.
"Isaiah Bradley is an underground legend among much of the African-American community in the Marvel Universe. It is a urban legend that he is the first Captain America. A number of the most noted Africans and African-Americans of the twentieth century's last four decades visited Bradley as a sign of respect and, in many cases, hero worship. His visitors have included Malcolm X, Richard Pryor, Muhammad Ali, Angela Davis, Alex Haley, Nelson Mandela, and Colin Powell. Outside the Black community, however, he remains largely unknown. When he arrived at the wedding of Storm and the Black Panther as a special guest, Luke Cage was awestruck, while Wolverine was totally unaware of the man's identity or importance."
Wow. That makes me just just like Wolverine in my ignorance. Yet another similarity...
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Bradley might be a cool replacement for Steve Rogers, but what about age? I know they explained away the original by saying that him being stuck in ice, combined with the Super Soldier formula's effects on his body, served to put him in suspened animation. I didn't notice if the wikipedia piece on Bradley mentioned anything like that.
Anyway, like other people were saying R.I.P. Steve Rogers.
P.S. Anything new should be done by one of the Kuberts. In my humble opinion, they are some of the best artists in the comic industry, and the ones who really know how to draw Cap.
Wow, very interesting discussion on Captain America and race issues.
I read milestone comics back in the 90's- my mom wanted me to see positive black characters in comics- and I liked it, but more because of the gritty world the characters lived in, not because they were "black like me" (and on a side note, ditto the first episode of the Mantis TV series, where the main character sits around watching himself screaming for help as he is paralyzed during a riot- over and over and over again. That's a powerful scene no matter what race the guy is). Hardware and Blood Syndicate were my favorites, because the characters in it were, again, gritty. But getting back to Captain America. Replacing him with Isaiah would be okay, even though I don't read the comic, but I would prefer if they replaced him with the original black guy slated to take his place- Battlestar. Remember him, anyone? I have no problem with increasing the number of minorities in comics, even if they are trying a bit hard nowadays- i.e. making Storm marry Black Panther(my god, if they told me that a few years ago I would have thought it was a horrible joke), but if they really want to go that route they should go with a character from the history of the comic itself, not a newer one. Heck, what about Falcon? I loved their comic, it really got to the core of race relations in this country.
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Actually if they make an Iron man film, I suggested they let Tony be drunk because the sober tony was when the Manchurian brainwashing was working. China winds up with an army of ironmen because Sober Tony is leaking his tech to the Chinese. He kills himself when he works out the brainwashers let him escape because they needed the Armor tech developed further.
CHina Marches a thousand ironmen into Taiwan.
Actually if they make an Iron man film, I suggested they let Tony be drunk because the sober tony was when the Manchurian brainwashing was working. China winds up with an army of ironmen because Sober Tony is leaking his tech to the Chinese. He kills himself when he works out the brainwashers let him escape because they needed the Armor tech developed further.
CHina Marches a thousand ironmen into Taiwan.
The Iron Man movie comes out soon with Robert Downy Jnr as Tony Stark!
The Wolverine, Magneto (during WW2), Captian America, Luke Cage, Nightstalkers and another Hulk movie are all in the pipeline.
http://www.marvel.com/news/moviestories.405
RIP Steve. Even if most of your enemies were lame.
RIP Steve. Even if most of your enemies were lame.
Tee hee hee!
So I wonder how long he'll stay dead?...
Maybe we could have a betting pool.
So I wonder how long he'll stay dead?...Maybe we could have a betting pool.
Count me in!
Two years . . . they'll ride this out because they have hung the whole "controversy sells" idea that they are going with right now on this particular issue. It took them a while bring Iron Man back from his being a villain/dying/coming back as his younger self from earlier in the timeline/"dying"/going to the Heroes Reborn Universe/and "back to normal" but it did happen . . .
I'm betting that they'll ride comic into the ground, sales will be good for a while, when they start to tank, they'll cancel the book, and six months later relaunch it with a "ressurrection."
2010. Then he will be back to beating up guys with skin disorders, and what not. I like Ulitimate Cap much better than mainstream cap(lower case on purpose) because he is much more like a man from the WW2 generation.
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Jim Rhodes was Stark's replacement as Iron Man for a short while, and he eventually went on to wear similar armor as War Machine. Just so, as I stated previously, I'd love to see someone like Cap's old partner the Falcon take over for Steve Rogers. That would be cool, especially if they got a good writer.
One thing I've always admired about comics was that they had a greater diversity of characters - Men, women, black, white, asian, etc. One of my favorites from Marvel was Blade. And I've always liked John Stewart as a Green Lantern, ever since the Cosmic Odyssey 4 issue series.
I think Falcon is too well established as his own guy. I don't think he would take the mantle of Cap. If Marvel were to go this route they should have Battlestar take over... he's within the patriotic vein and of a similar power/fight class. Although, who can say what, if anything is kicking around in the collective intelligence of Marvel. Frank Castle (the Punisher) having the mask bodes a bit ill.
Oh, and Cosmic Odyssey was good, but boy, when John Stewart makes a miscalculation, he doesn't do it by half...
They should have a Captain Texas, with a super soldier formula and a throwin'cowboy hat.
Yeah! And a Captain New York, with super rude language and a Hero sammich. Yay!
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So I wonder how long he'll stay dead?...
He didn't even stay dead a full day... in the Avengers Inititive crappo-thing Spider-Woman calls Ms. Marvel and asks WTF? And Ms. Marvel admits that it's a smokescreen. The issues came out on the same day.
PS: Sorry Freehold DM, I hadn't made it down to your post yet (re: Battlestar).