In Lords of the Boards thread I declared I am Enthusiast For Scurvy And Bubonic Plague, so accordingly here are some plans about houserules to make diseases more interesting.
The problem in RAW is that diseases have little storytelling value. One level 3 spell and it all goes away...few DMs even bother with such things because they are just so trivial or have to be some unique bizarre supernatural voodoo disease to which "Remove Disease does not work". Dull, considering how significant things they actually were in medieval times.
So here are some modifications to RAW (PHB and DMG with bit of Spell Compendium thrown in), and couple of new spells to cover midground (and bring fun flavor to that eeeevil villain priest of Nerull). In no way complete but look through. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome.
I'll be suggesting some new diseases and parasites too at some point, oh fun :)
Spells
Delay Disease
Level: Clr 1, Drd 1, Rgr 1
Otherwise like written in Spell Compendium 63
Resist Disease
Abjuration
Level: Clr 2, Drd 2, Rgr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 2 hours/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
DC of Fortitude saving throws to prevent infection of disease (DMG 292) is lowered by half of the caster level of the caster. Since supernatural diseases are more susceptible to magical healing, their DC is lowered by caster level of the caster.
Even if the saving throw fails, length of incubation period is doubled.
Heal Disease
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Rgr 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
DC of Fortitude saving throws to prevent instance of repeated damage and to recover from disease (DMG 292) is lowered by half of the caster level of the caster. Since supernatural diseases (and diseases coming from Contagion spell) are more susceptible to magical healing, their DC is lowered by caster level of the caster.
Even if the saving throw fails, target takes no ability damage during that day.
Enhance Disease
Necromancy (Evil)
Level: Clr 3, Destruction 3, Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
DC of Fortitude saving throws to prevent instance of repeated damage (DMG 292) is raised by half of the caster level of the caster. Since supernatural diseases (and diseases coming from Contagion spell) are more susceptible to magic, their DC is raised by caster level of the caster.
Successful saving throw is not counted for purpose of recovery.
Suppress Symptoms
Necromancy (Evil)
Level: Clr 4, Drd 4
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Special
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Suppress symptoms cures all effects of one disease the subject is suffering from. The subject still makes daily Fortitude saving throws to recover from disease but on failed rolls takes no ability damage. The spell stays in effect until the disease is cured, and until then the subject is immune to reinfection by the same disease.
The subject is still carrier of the disease and can infect others. For his own recovery saving throws and infection, ability damage and recovery saving throws of the infected creatures DC of Fortitude save is raised by 5.
Both casting and being willing target of this spell are considered evil acts.
Remove Disease
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5, Drd 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
Remove disease cures one disease the subject is suffering from. The spell also kills parasites, including green slime and others. Certain special diseases may not be countered by this spell.
Material component: Different for each disease
Contagion
Necromancy (Evil)
Level: Clr 5, Destruction 5, Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
The subject contracts a disease selected from the table below, which strikes immediately (no incubation period). The DC noted is for the subsequent saves (use Contagion's normal save DC for the initial saving throw). Diseases contracted by Contagion spell are considered supernatural for target but if disease spreads to further victims disease is considered natural for them.
(Table in PHB 213)
Material component: Different for each disease
Mass Contagion
Level: Clr 7, Drd 7, Sor/Wiz 8
Otherwise as written in SC 51 (with exceptions to Contagion spell, above).
Modifications to other rules
Destruction domain spells:
3 Blindness/Deafness
5 Contagion
Remove disease ability of paladin is changed to Heal disease ability (similar to the spell with paladin level instead of caster level).
Paladin gets Remove disease ability on levels 10, 14 and 18, but requires material component for using this ability.
Panacea (SC 152) no longer heals disease.
Disease spells and specific faiths
Priests of Nerull (and other sects who are considered applicable by DM) use their holy symbol as material component for both Remove Disease and Contagion. Holy Symbol is not consumed in the spellcasting. However, in most cases casting Remove Disease is considered violation of code of conduct and Suppress Symptoms is preferred.
Druids and priests of Obad-Hai (and other sects who are considered applicable by DM) use their holy symbol as material component for Remove Disease when targetting non-supernatural diseases. Holy Symbol is not consumed in the spellcasting. However, in some cases casting Remove Disease is considered violation of code of conduct (casting Suppress Symptoms is always a violation).
Material components for Remove Disease and Contagion
List of material components in other cases haven't been compiled yet, however most of them should be such that getting them requires bit of work but might also be readily available at least in larger towns, depending on wish of a DM. Piece of brown mold (DMG 76) freshly cut, an amethyst of certain size or heart of owlbear, that sort of thing.
Another suggestion, and something that's always seemed a little odd to me...a detect disease spell at 0-level. There's detect magic, detect poison. A character would have no way of knowing he actually needs to cast remove disease, technically, versus say dispel magic because there's no spell that says, "Yep, this guys diseased!"
Hmm, I like detect disease spell...maybe couple of versions, one as 0-level (there are some dangerous diseases there) and one as 1-level (it's this disease).
And of course, to keep up with spirit of reverse casting, a 1-level spell to hide diseases from magic, heal skill, all the visual marks from body etc. (of course wouldn't work for ability damages so nifty people would still see that your WIS has dropped by 6...)
Nasty one, Heath. I was also thinking of some lesser but common diseases like a parasite which has relatively high DC (so that shrugging it off without skilled healer or magic is very difficult) but minor effect, like making you fatigued when you fail FORT save. Yes, I was thinking of something like tapeworm :)
One point about replacing Remove disease with Heal disease is that it shouldn't affect much the adventuring groups (except for taking up an extra spell slot since it should be cast in two consecutive days), at least on higher levels, but epidemic outburst anywhere would still be a catastrophe. Like it should be.
Great idea!
Didn't you want to have "Heal Disease" dispel "Enhance Disease"?
Or at least have it neutralise the "Successful saving throw is not counted for purpose of recovery"-bit of Enhance Disease?
Otherwise it might become impossible to get rid of an enhanced disease without higher level spells. Was it by design?
Bocklin
You could have arcane diseases in you game (I do) that can:
Change your appearance effectively transforming you into a mongrelman, giving you cloven hooves, scales, etc.
Giving you sensitivity to magic - you can detect magic all the time but its presense hurts - 1 to dex -1 to saves (broken to arcane and divine)
Light sensitivity
Undead like characteristics
You have a wild magic effect
Etc.
Technically both Heal and Enhance disease have duration of 24 hours so both of them basically apply to one die roll, and without repeated casting Enhanced disease turns back into normal and heals as usual. Thus I have not quite decided if one should cancel the other...perhaps both of them would cancel each other and the one cast last is the one which takes effect (from top of my head I cannot remember if there was a rule what time of the day the FORT save is tried each day...DM should decide if there is no rule). Or the one with higher caster level overrides.
Though I am quite fond of the idea that king is suffering from wasting sickness which cannot be readily cured because some evil cleric keeps the disease Enhanced day after day after day. "Here, it's time for your daily medicine!"
Oh, one thing I thought of which might also be of significance...no Remove disease potions.
Technically both Heal and Enhance disease have duration of 24 hours so both of them basically apply to one die roll, and without repeated casting Enhanced disease turns back into normal and heals as usual.
True. I had overseen that part. And it is indeed useful and nice to have the "sick king" situation as you describe it...
Maybe both effects should add up: if a "heal disease" with a caster level of 6 is cast on the patient he gets a +3 bonus on the check, but if he receives an "enhance disease" spell on the same day (let's say at c.l. 10, for a -5 malus), you just count both together: here -2 on the check.
To get that effect, make the bonus "sacred" and the malus "profane". So they add up.
For the secondary effects ("no ability damage on failed check" or "succesful check does not count against healing"), you could have the healer make a dispel check (d20 + caster level Vs 11 + caster level) against the "enhance sickness". If the undercover, evil "healer" is of higher level, a low-level cleric won't be able to help.
Bocklin
You could just remove some of those disease ridding spells from your campaign. Divine casters could afford to be nerfed anyway.
Koga: Ew! Disease people! The Koga wouldn't touch them with a twenty foot mindblade!
Pete: What about that one girl who wouldn't go out with you?
Koga: Ehhh The Koga has a sugar imbalance...
Pete: Sure...
Well, it's nice to have some forms of disease-fighting spells...again it would diminish story use of diseases if they were too difficult to cure.
That said, in the next campaign I will run Raise dead, Resurrection and other such spells will have similar results as that graveyard in Pet Sematary. Or worse. A proper resurrection is a miracle and there are no rules for miracles.
More random musings about subject of diseases...on the other "let's downtune clerics" thread there was a mention about monetary cost of getting the spell casted and how your average peasant couldn't afford it...for Remove disease it makes even less sense than for normal cure spells, since most diseases are, you know, infectious. There is no cost in actual casting of the spell so priests of Pelor who refuse to cast the spell unless they get the money are either Neutral Stupid (ignoring the fact that diseases spread) or Neutral Questionable (keeping the diseases spreading so the money keeps coming in from those who can afford Remove disease). As far as RAW goes, no priest of Pelor or a paladin should go to sleep with level 3 spells uncast...
in real life diseases adapt to cures... In a world permeated with magic why wouldn't this happen as well? diseases adapt to a specific cure element of the spell making that casterneed to work harder, I use a rule that the caster has to make a Wisdom check = to the diseases DC; failure not only means the spell doesnt work but also means that the DC of the disease increases by 1.
Ive been toying around with the idea of creating a feat that gives a +5 bonus in such circumstances... obviously not something your general PC will pick up, but interesting background for NPCs
in real life diseases adapt to cures... In a world permeated with magic why wouldn't this happen as well?
Germs with SR -- ouch!
For the sake of discussion, I'm not fond of the idea:
[ul]
[/ul]
Of course my arguments are flawed -- fantasy worlds are required to be neither consistent nor realistic.
Just some thoughts :)
Jack
yes but humans adapt at a much slower rate than viruses/ bacteria.
Also, because humans are in my mind the "standard" aganst which all things are judged in D&D they might well have magic resistance, its just not special or out of the ordinary and therefore not worth mentioning ruleswise since it assumes that all of the other "factions" of the rules would automatically take it into account...
the best example I can think of is the saving throws, while fair, realistically how many people could actually resist poison irl or withstand the effects of charm person, heck brainwashing works fine without spells.
don't know if that made any sense to you but there it is. ^_^
One suggestion. I'd have "Suppress Symptoms" work for a specified duration. When the spell ends (6 hours/level?) the symptoms come back with full force. All of the ability damage accrued now applies. You could modify it slightly so that you get a little extra damage since your body has been suppressing the symptoms. Dayquil suppresses symptoms, it doesn't heal you. If you stop taking it maybe you feel even worse because you haven't allowed your body to do it's thing. I'm thinking of how a barbarian's rage works as a model.
This might reduce the spell level of the spell. You'd cast it to allay the effects of a disease which could not be healed by the party while they seek someone who can help, or the right ingredients, or whatever.
Suppress Symptoms is more of a flavor spell for evil NPCs, Heal Disease should take care of that "looking for ingredients for Remove Disease" period.
|
Hmm, I like detect disease spell...maybe couple of versions, one as 0-level (there are some dangerous diseases there) and one as 1-level (it's this disease).
You may have already thought of this, but maybe a caster needs to know exactly which disease it is before she/he can cast Remove Disease or any other curing spell. It makes your 1st-level Identify Disease a lot more important.
BTW, one could do this with poison as well. 0-level Detect Poison, 1st-level Identify Poison, higher-level Remove Poison.
Even if you don't go with making Identify absolutely necessary, it could lower the DC dramatically (or raise it if you try to cure a disease without knowing which one).
You may have already thought of this, but maybe a caster needs to know exactly which disease it is before she/he can cast Remove Disease or any other curing spell. It makes your 1st-level Identify Disease a lot more important.
Yes, I was thinking about that...after all, you need to pick that correct material component to remove specific disease (which is also why I changed the spell to remove only one specific disease instead of them all). Disease needs to be diagnosed either by spell or successful Heal check.
Maybe put also a penalty on Heal checks (when using Heal skill instead of FORT save) if the disease is undiagnosed.Poison game mechanics are a bit different, typically the effects are resolved in much shorter time than with diseases, so they are a bit more difficult to dabble with...something to look at anyway.