I'll go straight to the point. I'm running TFoE for a group of three players (3PCs and 1 NPC). They are in the middle of the fight with the Hextorites and, being clever players, they managed to kill/incapacitate Kendra and Garras, animate the cultists they killed using Filge's scroll of animate dead, use the zombie to cover their escape with the captured couple (i.e. Kendra and Garras). Since the fight is not over yet, Theldrick may still prevent this from happening though. But assuming the PCs manage to bring the two hextorite priests back to the surface and bring them to some form of authority figure (i.e. governor-mayor, garrison, Allustan or Smenk), I do not yet know how to handle this situation. I am therefore humbly asking for any advice you guys might have.
Thank you!
Regardless of whether Dourstone knows what is going on or not, the PCs could ascend using the elevator, destroy the elevator (burn the chain with acid, wedge something metallic in the operating mechanism, etc.), escape with the clerics, and march them right up to the gates of the Garrison. Valkus Dun or Trollivar Trask (or Dobrin Trent, or any number of NPCs there) would certainly be interested in a cult festering in a nearby mine.
Theldrick (and any other cultists) would be trapped, with the exception of the grimlock exit into the Underdark. From that moment it could be a careful breach bang and clear (after miners and workers rig a new elevator system). It's up to you after that. Do the humans flee with the grimlocks into Underdark? Could any of them return later in the campaign? Does everyone fight to the death?
If the elevator isn't destroyed, I'd have Theldrick escape and return later in the module/campaign. Faceless and his apprentices might also flee. That's up to you.
It is in the PCs interests not to go directly to the authorities. The PCs are, for the most part, in an "infiltration-type" mission. Alerting the authorities to the presence of the Ebon Triad prior to investigating Dourstone Mine's understructure could result in a major battle. An interesting idea, don't get me wrong, but ultimately one which would both bring a great deal of death to several good men from the garrison, less capable ones than the PCs in such a mission/encounter, as well as compromise the information Allustan has sent them in to uncover.
I love having an NPC for this reason alone: try having your NPC "suggest" that the party leaves the captured prisoners bound and gagged in a secure room, when it's convienent for them to do so. My PCs practically went on a killing spree in this dungeon (50+ kills, I believe, which should be normal), but captured at least five prisoners, who all became reoccuring NPCs in some way or another.
In short, "lasso'em and fetch'em later" will probably serve your group--and the people of Diamond Lake--better in the long run.
I'm not suggesting having the garrison go down there. By informing Valkus Dun, you've awakened a respectable authority figure who will squeeze Lanod Neff into taking action, rendering Smenk somewhat powerless, and ensuring that the PCs will emerge from Dourstone Mine into a safe environment, with the real good guys (and the real power in Diamond Lake) backing them.
Also, by alerting the Garrison, Diamond Lake will be on lockdown, making Theldrick's (and perhaps others') escape difficult.
They get out to the elevator find that it is in the up position. They cannot seem to get it to come down. This should force them to think about what that means to their wellfare and how they'll want to deal with Theldrick who will be rallying the remaining forces.
That would be a good way of preventing them from going up but...three of them are already in the elevator and are waiting for the fourth PC to come back from the front lines with the zombies under his control who are carrying Kendra and Garras. Theldrick, the trog zombies, the tieflings and a summoned dire ape are hot on their trail though. But there is still a possibility that they indeed go back up. At least, that is what they seem bent on doing.
Moreover, it was not Allustan who suggested the PCs go down there, it was Smenk. One of the PCs (a late player addition to the group) has been hired by Smenk to back up the original PCs (plus Smenk has some plans for him). Allustan knows there down in Dourstone Mine though because the PCs have gone to him after Smenk "hired" them. So they might go to Allustan with the cultists, but they might go to Smenk also. Either way, I think that both will suggest the PCs continue with their infiltration mission, each for his own reasons.
The main problem I have is what do I do if the PCs try to get Lanod Neff or the garrison involved ? I do not want the PCs to hand down their responsibilities (as heroes) to anyone else. Neff might be bribed by Smenk not to intervene, but the garrison would react strongly to the presence of Hextorites in Diamond Lake. But under what suspicion ? The Ebon Triad has not done anything illegal so far and the PCs still do not have proof that they have.
I do not want to stop TFoE if the PCs go back up instead of continuing their exploration of the cult's hideout. That would have been the shortest adventure I'd have ever run. I do not think the cultist would flee and let the Ebon Aspect in its pool. I think that they should mount some defenses and try accelerating the process of summoning the Aspect. I think I will have the passage to the Underdark left open (instead of collapsed) since it does not make any sense for the people (however mad they are) to put themselves at the mercy of some kind of jury-rigged elevator. This way if things go really bad for them they can escape, while leaving the Ebon Aspect as a nasty surprise for infidels who might come back down.
What do you guys think ?
by the way, thanks for your suggestions. Keep 'em coming!
Moreover, it was not Allustan who suggested the PCs go down there, it was Smenk. One of the PCs (a late player addition to the group) has been hired by Smenk to back up the original PCs (plus Smenk has some plans for him).
My bad. It's been so long, I forgot it was actually Smenk who pushed the PCs to investigate. I think I got confused with EaBK.
First, as you said, the cults did not do anything against the law, so it may be rather the PCs facing prosecution for abducting people (even clergymen). Sherrif Cubbin will not move a finger (he is lazy, criminal and probably a coward). The garrison also has to abide by the law, and all gods have their right to exist, and as long as it is not proven, the cultists did violate any laws, there is nothing the LN garrison will do (especially in a town like DL, there are probably many worshipers of non-good deities anyway). Smenk also is not interested, that the law takes any action lest he will be also in trouble (this may or may not motivate your Smenk affiliated player). Now if these points are not enough to make your PCs consider their path of action you could still trap them down there. Remember, some of Dourstone's guards are cultist, they might just appear at this unfortunate moment at the top of the elevator. Or let some Birdmen or apprentices appear, on their way to the Hextorites and thus keep the PCs long enough for Theldrik to catch up. Also consider, the Hextorites are fanatics, they might even commit suicide, like jumping from the elevator into the pool (if they are conscious).
And you could suggest to your players, that they are now in the best tactical position. If they leave, the cultists will prepare traps for them or the soldier, which will result in many more dead than if they fight now and catch each faction unaware.
You might even drop a hint on the many many XP and GP the soldiers will get when they do all the fighting (but that should really be last resort).
Hope there are ideas you can use.
First, as you said, the cults did not do anything against the law, so it may be rather the PCs facing prosecution for abducting people (even clergymen).
I wholeheartedly agree. It is even suggested in the adventure itself, under Theldrick's tactics, that the cultists have done nothing against the law. So there is no official reason why the authorities should support the PCs when they arrive with their captives. Indeed, on the contrary, the PCs have aggressively infiltrated the cult's hideout and killed and/or abducted people.
Also, if the PCs leave with the rest of the cultists alarmed, the survivors would either get out of there, and reappear later on in the campaign, or they might try to take some kind of action against the PCs. In my campaign I had the bad guys set up a plot against the party druid, who can assume wolf form. They started spreading accusations that he was a werewolf. Luckily the PCs managed to convinc ethe authorities they were innocent, but this is exactly the way in which the bad guys might operate. Remember that Diamond Lake is a corrupt town, so if you're willing to abuse the system, you might very easily get away with a lot. The cultists would be the first to abuse the system, while it might be against the PCs' principles to do so.
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The main problem I have is what do I do if the PCs try to get Lanod Neff or the garrison involved ? I do not want the PCs to hand down their responsibilities (as heroes) to anyone else. Neff might be bribed by Smenk not to intervene, but the garrison would react strongly to the presence of Hextorites in Diamond Lake. But under what suspicion ? The Ebon Triad has not done anything illegal so far and the PCs still do not have proof that they have.
Lanod Neff is a paranoid suffering from delusions of inadequacy. He would more concerned about the retribution (real or imagined) that Ragnolin Dourstone would unleash upon him if he tried to act against him. Remember, the Mine Managers are the real "government" of this town and Lanod clings to his position only because it suits the managers. A couple of Hextorites plucked from Dourstone's adits? Lanod would free the priests and have the PCs arrested for breaking and entering. Game over.
The PCs could bring the prisoners to the garrison but that would be the same effect of bringing some Green Peace tree-huggers to a Air Force base. The garrison would state that this is a "local affair" and direct them to Sheriff Cubbin. Sure, the garrison would be aware that something was up, but their authority is only in matters of "national security". Some cultists, self-contained in a hole, doesn't warrant a national security alert...yet.
Your Smenk plant in the party needs to make the above clear to the other PCs. Two prisoners aren't going to punch their "hero" ticket yet. They need more evidence that Neff cannot ignore and/or the garrison feels is sufficient "national threat".
You, as the DM, need to tell the players point-blank that leaving now will make returning to the mine even more difficult as Ragnolin wont stand for that. Assassins will likely be assigned to eliminate the PCs. The guards in the Dourstone Compound will be doubled/tripled. Even if they are able to get back into the Black Temple, the cultists of Erythnul and Vecna will have been alerted and forced to work in coorperation to keep their ultimate goals a possibility. The only way to survive the Ebon Triad is to keep each group segregated from the others. A combined force equates to a TPK.
And once they decide to vacate the Black Temple back into the Hextorites or Erythnul/Vecna area...have the elevator in the up position so they're stuck there until the business is done!!! ::wink::
Some more logic for the Ebon Triad can be found via the search engine in the Archives.
This thread I found most useful when I ran the scenario, as it allowed me to test my logic theories. Getting Mike Mearl's thumbs-up didn't hurt either.
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Hi JSD (aka DB),
I went through Rexx's link, and lots of good ideas are given there (especially by Rexx himself)...
I also remember that there was an early AoW thread around the question : "why the garrison [one or two "r" ?] would not react in case of evidence of an evil cult down the mines ?, or would the garrison react ?"
It seems that Alustan's brother (can't remember his first name) is quite happy to see that Balabar got his wealth increasing over the last few months : him and the sheriff are so corrupted that they won't do anything if there is a risk of earning less money for themselves !!
Don't forget that the garrison is under the authority of Alustan's brother (it's written somewhere that leaders of the garison are not happy at all to have to obey to Alustan's brother, but they are given no other real choice).
So, as long as the mayor doesn't want to act openly, the only thing the garison may do is lock your players' prisoners in one of their jails !
Also, given the fact that your players are quite experienced, they could very quickly get the feeling that nobody will really help them...
Good luck !
If the Garrison is alerted to a cult of Hextorites, grimlocks, and necromancers fooling around beneath Dourstone Mine, two things will happen: the Garrison will neutralize any power Lanod Neff might have had before, and the PCs will be tasked with investigating the cult and capturing any cultists alive if possible.
Certainly the evidence found in Filge's observatory (and a pair of Hextorite prisoners to boot!) is enough to convince Trask and Valkus Dun that Diamond Lake's security is compromised under Lanod Neff's office, and the PCs would make the perfect team to clean up the mess. Once Valkus Dun and the paladin Melinde get involved, there will certainly be no confusion as to what is really going on in the mine. The PCs must then save the town.
Whatever power Neff had through Smenk would wither away as 60+ garrison soldiers marched into Diamond Lake. Even Kullen and his gang wouldn't stand a chance. With the cat out of the bag, the PCs could enter Dourstone Mine with no confusion as to who the real bad guys are.
Smenk and Neff have power when the campaign begins, but when the "sleeping giants" (Valkus Dun, Trask, Allustan) are awakened by the PCs, the antagonists will either die, get arrested, or slink away to reappear later in the campaign.
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If the Garrison is alerted to a cult of Hextorites, grimlocks, and necromancers fooling around beneath Dourstone Mine, two things will happen: the Garrison will neutralize any power Lanod Neff might have had before, and the PCs will be tasked with investigating the cult and capturing any cultists alive if possible.
The initial inquiry suggested that the Hextor portion of the Black Cathedral had been discovered. If the PCs retreated with only knowledge of the Hextorites, that in itself shouldn't be enough to get the military involved, which is what the garrison is. Local police would have jurisdiction and thus Cubbin/Lanod Neff's questionable motives would come into play.
Now, if the PCs retreated with knowledge (more importantly evidence!) about all three aspects of the Ebon Triad, I agree, the military should get involved. The Free City has had it's share of large evil cult activity in the past (The Falcon and her Vecna cult in particular, Iuz the Old's cults caused heartburn 20 years prior, and Tharizdun has had activity as well) which were grounds for military involvement. On the otherhand, I'd expect there are several small "cells" of Hextor/Nerull/Asmodeus/Barney in the Domain that fall under the local police authority (read: adventurers too!). Only when such cells get dangerous on a large scale would the oligarchy go beyond police/adventurers and use the military.
Certainly the evidence found in Filge's observatory (and a pair of Hextorite prisoners to boot!) is enough to convince Trask and Valkus Dun that Diamond Lake's security is compromised under Lanod Neff's office, and the PCs would make the perfect team to clean up the mess. Once Valkus Dun and the paladin Melinde get involved, there will certainly be no confusion as to what is really going on in the mine. The PCs must then save the town.
Filge was an odd bird, but his quirks probably pale in comparison to a number of people in Diamond Lake. This town is the hackneyed "hive of scum and villany" with more opportunities for an upstanding police force to clean up than even the Low City. Alas, Cubbin and Co. are far from upstanding.
Diamond Lake is a dead-in for most people here. In my mind, that goes for the people that fill out the garrison. Trask and Valkus likely have some stain upon their record to be stuck in Diamond Lake, otherwise they would be stationed at more critical locations in the Domain, or even better, working towards retirement in the Grand Citadel in the Free City. Trask and Valkus would likely call Filge "sick" and hand him over to Cubbin. Bandits, monsters, and derro sightings (see The Doomgrinder adventure) on the Urnst Highway keep the garrison busy enough. As such, I just don't see a likely scenario where the garrison will get involved with local politics until it absolutely has to. That's effectively marshall law. Sure, if the Ebon Aspect gets loose in town, that's a likely scenario.
Smenk and Neff have power when the campaign begins, but when the "sleeping giants" (Valkus Dun, Trask, Allustan) are awakened by the PCs, the antagonists will either die, get arrested, or slink away to reappear later in the campaign.
"Sleeping giants" suggests that the "giants" can be awakened. Perhaps "comatose giants" is more appropriate. Allustan's "run-away" tactics in the beginning of Encounter at Blackwall Keep suggest a lack of backbone, a fact that has added greatly to the story elements of my own game, in particular with the former apprentice to Allustan. I just don't see any of the current NPCs in town as the types to wake up, otherwise why is the town in its current state of affairs?
This is my own subjective interpretation of the campaign material, granted, and more pro-active "good" NPCs are certainly possible.
silenttimo: Hell, I'm at work too, just more inspired to talk Diamond Lake politics than look at satellite imagery at this point. ::sheepish grin::
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Upping your thread.
Sorry, it has nothing to do with your question, but maybe you'll find this thread entertaining :
The beginning was messy, but I improved it...
This should have lead to my AoW campaign, but it is in a kind of stasis state right now...
My French-speaking buddy appreciated the thread. Thanks for sharing. I thought "WTF" meant "worm troubles frequently" for the AoW. ::wink::
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You're welcome...
I enjoyed writing it, but it took me quite some time.
And since AoW is on hold (2 of my 4 players live too far to play regularly), and I began DMing STAP with other players (except 2), I won't go on right now... and my thread will go in the limbo of Paizo's archive threads.
However, if your buddy enjoy reading french (and is not playing STAP or is way after the beginning of the 2nd installment), then, drop me a mail at silenttimo(at)yahoo(dot)fr , and I'll give you the address of the small site one of my players built for STAP.
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Thank you all for you help! I had some ideas on how to deal with the situation I've asked your advice on, but they were nowhere near as developped as what you suggested. Your suggestions will greatly help me focus on what to do when the situation calls for the major NPCs to interact with the PCs.
As it's been said by others, great stuff Rexx with your take on the Faceless One's scheme! I think I'll use part of it, as it is in the same line of thought as how I intended to portray him.
I'll keep you posted on how the game unravels during the next session (this coming Friday).
Here's a few more ideas you might wish to develop:
You could assume that the Cult of the Ebon Triad (or any of it's 3 constituent member cults) have secret members all throughout town.
So if you have a captive thrown in jail, a cultist insider will arrange for his escape, etc.
This also leads to interesting complications after TFoE concludes, because while the cult activity has been exposed and the hideout destroyed, you have no idea how many cultists may still be active in Diamond Lake (i.e., they weren't ALL in the mines...)
I went so far as to make the Faceless One Justan Wierus - the unorthodox High Priest of St. Cuthbert! (so in my campaign, he actually DID have a face). But this revelation led to great chaos, because some of the Cuthbertines were cultists, but not all. But all non-Cuthbertines assumed that they were all cultists, etc.
So you had people happy that the PCs exposed the cultists, and others mad at them because they were being unfairly labeled, etc.
I also had the mines cave in after the destruction of the Ebon Aspect - forcing them to flee in a panic. And later all the out of work mine workers were angry that they didn't kill the monster in a less destructive way, etc.
This all helps set the stage for the PCs needing to "get out of town" and go first to Blackwall Keep, and then later GreyHawk.