Let me start by saying that this latest installment is by far the best yet! I love the whole idea and plot. I enjoy the free-flow feel of the whole thing; each task is related but the players get to choose exactly where and how much to focus on. The only thing that I'm uncertain about is whether the players should be *aware* of the victory point system? Is the DM supposed to intimate to them that certain activities gain them an undisclosed amount of victory points and that their final total decides the ultimate success of this module? Or are they supposed to just blindly decide to help (or not), explore the island (or not), prepare for attack (or not) without any real idea of how the consequences of their action/inaction will affect them (and obviously the citizens of Farshore as well).
I know other DMs complain about railroading and linear plotlines but my players, even though they're veterans, really prefer to make a plan with knowledge of how their actions are going to impact the entire plotline. I know, I know, someone will say "if that's what works for your players, then DM this module that way" but what I'm really asking is "How is it *supposed* to be played?". Have other DMs given hints that the PCs are gathering points toward possible victory or is mum the word and what happens happens?
Someone asked the same question in the thread "#143: A Question of Mechanics (spoilers)". The official response seemed to be "Keep the points secret, but make sure you indicate that their actions are having an effect on the defense of the town."
Lady Aurora, Heathanson had actually asked the same thing. Here's my response:
Heathy, personally I recommend not telling your players that they are accruing Victory Points. In fact, the manuscript Gary and I sent in said this about it:
During this adventure, the PCs have many opportunities to earn Victory Points to defeat the pirates of the Crimson Fleet when they arrive in force. Rather than running an entire battle, this variant of the Victory Point system from Heroes of Battle allows you to determine its outcome based on what the PCs have done to prepare for and what they do during the battle.
The most likely outcomes using this system are provided near the end of the adventure. The best possible outcome results if the PCs successfully complete all of their missions and side adventures, gaining allies and acquiring valuable resources.
The worst possible outcome might result if the PCs spend more time on side adventures or chasing red herrings rather than focusing on helping the colony.
Each mini-adventure has a sub-heading giving the Victory Points award that successfully completing it is worth. [i]Secretly keep track of your group’s running tally of Victory Points. During the final battle with the Crimson Fleet they will come into play to determine the final outcome.I think that telling your players that everything they do is going to earn rewards (or the lack of) towards the final fight is kind of a cheating way of going about it and doesn't seem natural. They should already have a sense of a need for preparation, but knowing that if they don't means they are going to get a "bad grade" makes their actions seem forced.
So, IMO, it's best not to let the players know about the VPs until the very end.
I think James may have edited this out for two reasons - 1) to free up space for other things that needed to go in; and 2) to leave this decision up to individual DMs. I can see an argument for and against letting your players know up front that their mini-quests are going to earn them VP.
I think a good compromise would be to simply tell your players after their talk with Lavinia that the tasks they have been asked to perform will have a direct bearing on whether or not Farshore survives the pending pirate attack and that you will be tracking their accomplishments. Simply leave it at that.
I didn't tell my group about the VPs. I emphasised that they had two months to improve the defences of Farshore and gave hints of what would be effective.
Namely, recruit and train more militia members, recruit and train friendly native tribes people, improve the defensive capabilities of the town and harbor and improve morale, since I painted the picture than most people in town were fearful and uncertain. Then I let the players run it with it.
Certain missions like the diplomatic mission to the Olman villages can be directed by the party patron. If you don't want to outright suggest ideas, do it by having NPCs like ex-military/naval persons approach the party and make suggestions.
There is a small chance that you may not need the VPs at all. My group just finished Tides of Dread and their command of the defence of Farshore and their preparations resulted in the destruction of the Crimson Fleet. Can't argue with success, regardless of what the VP total might say.
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There is a small chance that you may not need the VPs at all. My group just finished Tides of Dread and their command of the defence of Farshore and their preparations resulted in the destruction of the Crimson Fleet. Can't argue with success, regardless of what the VP total might say.
So, how many VPs did your players earn (if I may be so bold)?
Okay, I already tried this post once and it disappeared into the black hole of Calcutta. Here I go again...
Thank you, Mr. Greer, for your "official" answer to my question. To be honest it'll probably be a while before my players get to this module but I was trying to plan ahead. I think I'll just keep quiet and see how they react to the situation. If their actions seem aimless or lackadaisical then I think I'll just briefly mention that I'm tracking their actions for possible impact on future events. A single word will almost certainly be enough to make them straighten in their chairs and get down to business. Thanks again for allaying any fears that I might be being too hard on them by keeping silent.
I apologize, Heathansson, for asking a question you already asked. I just moved from NY to OK and so I've not had access to the net for about two weeks. I reviewed the various threads before posting but somehow missed yours.
On a slightly off-topic subject, I don't worry about writing "possible spoilers" in my thread titles. In fact, this is one of my pet peeves (which I would've ranted about in the "place your rant here" thread except that that thread's so huge my computer can barely load it). Rant follows here...
It's important, I believe, on message boards to keep the place clean and neat by posting in appropriate areas and discussing appropriate topics. However, why should I apologize for discussing something on its designated board? This IS the Savage Tide AP board so players have no business lurking around here. I try to remember to include the acronym for whatever module I'm discussing to aid readers in finding topics of interest but if a DM hasn't received the latest issue or for some reason doesn't want to be exposed to current topics then he/she would be wise to avoid my threads. Posting spoiler info on the general board is one thing (I try not to post specifics there and warn people if I do) but designated boards are another. Someone recently rebuked some posters for vague thread titles that reveal little more than "I need help" or "I have a question". I agree that thread titles are best if they at least hint at the subject matter so a reader doesn't have to wade through countless posts to find a topic of interest and I always put forth effort to title my threads appropriately. I will not, however, apologize for talking about what the boards title already warned potential readers would be discussed.
Anywhooo...
Thanks to everyone for answering my question. Sorry that the question was a repeat.
I'm in no way directing any portion of my rant toward you, Heathansson, nor am I accusing you of "mislabeling" your post. I think your title was fine. I simply overlooked it. Thanks again for chiming in. I apologize for going postal - it's been a long day! :)
Steel Horse wrote: So, how many VPs did your players earn (if I may be so bold)?
I don't recall the exact value but they made enough VPs for the second highest victory condition. But the VPs were irrelevant - the party's preparation and planning and execution of the overall battleplan resulted in two capsized pirate ships, three pirate ships afire, and about 85% of the pirates dead by the time they hit the beaches. The remaining pirates either surrendered or were killed trying to clear the beach/dock area. Total victory, regardless of what the VP total was.