Currently we are knee-deep in a high-level campaign that has been running since summer vacation and as always with my more permanent characters my fingers are itching. Itching to build my cleric that stronghold and do all the designing myself, down to laying the last brick and organising the entire defensive features into perfection. Now I’ve done this before but only for a much smaller stronghold. This was a small keep with a garrison of 30 men and that doesn’t allow for much deviating, money was also a problem since we weren’t the wealthiest of adventurers.
But with the keep I’m designing now that has changed, the party consists of lvl 17’s(or equivalent) and we’ve got more money to spend. Plans for the keep and such are 99% complete, there’s just one snitch.
My military force needs to be up to scratch. I can’t do with just hiring guards(war1) and a captain(fig3) and just expect the place to keep standing with all the enemies we’ve made. I calculated that I needed around 160 soldiers at the least to keep the place safe(4x6 hour shift), not counting corporals, sergeants, lieutenants, etc. But at this point it blanks out, how do I organize an effective military force? I’ve looked at the last chapter of Heroes of Battle but quite frankly; I’m lost, what kind of level should my regular soldier have, how many sergeants, and what level.
Any help would be appreciated.
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My military force needs to be up to scratch. I can’t do with just hiring guards(war1) and a captain(fig3) and just expect the place to keep standing with all the enemies we’ve made. I calculated that I needed around 160 soldiers at the least to keep the place safe(4x6 hour shift), not counting corporals, sergeants, lieutenants, etc. But at this point it blanks out, how do I organize an effective military force?
You can thin your numbers by extending your shifts. Do 3x8 hour shifts instead and you reduce the number to 120 soldiers. I would recommend 3 high commanders (one for each shift) who should be 12th level fighters or paladins (assuming your group has a paladin-friendly alignment). There should be 2 priests for each shift (total of 6) of at least 6th level (clerics or adepts). You should also have one arcane caster (preferably a sorcerer) per shift of at least 6th level. Then, your rank-and-file will consist of a total of 30 guards (Ftr 4) and 6 sergeants (Ftr 6). Each sergeant leads a group of 5 guards. Here's the breakdown of what your defenses should look like:
3 Commanders (Ftr or Pal 12)
6 Medics (Clr or Adp 6)
3 Arcanists (Wiz or Sor 6)
6 Sergeants (Ftr 6)
30 guards (Ftr 4)
Each shift will have 1 Commander, 2 Medics, 1 Arcanist, 2 Sergeants and 10 Guards. Ideally the medics would be assigned to each Sergeant-commanded group and the Arcanist would hang back "on-call". Really, you could probably get by with 1 Arcanist of higher level who is just kind of hanging around and only comes out when something big is going down. I would recommend a Sorcerer or Wizard of 10th level for this. Then you've cut down to a 118-man staff.
If anyone in your party has the Leadership feat (they should if they're planning something like this), you should probably use the cohort slot for those level 12 commanders.
Since your building a simple stronghold, not a school, I'll have to change my thoughts a little, but I can help. I'm gonna break this down like this.
1 Captain (lvl 13 fighter), oversees the commanders and answers to you.
3 Commanders (lvl 8-11 fighter), 1 for each shift (3x8 hours)
84 Soldier (lvl 5-7 warrior), 28 per shift
21 Elite (lvl 6-7 fighter), 7 per shift
3 Healers (lvl 5-7 cleric), 1 per shift
6 Medics (lvl 5-7 expert), 2 per shift
3 Runners (lvl 5-7 warrior, expert, or rogue), 1 ready per shift
I total 121 men. I usually design things for more wealthy adventurers, or people with a steady source of income. I'll get Joral's (my blighter and "co-DM") advice for this too. He should be able to help, he IS running the defenses of an entire town. Maybe my setup is to expensive for you.
Edit: Oh, I forgot.
1 Mage (lvl 12-14 wizard or sorcerer), A higher lvl arcanist available when needed.
3 Arcanist (lvl 5-9 adept), 1 per shift to give your defense a little magical boost if needed, but not so dire as to call out the mage.
This would give you a total guard of 125, although the arcanists aren't necesarry. Again, my designs tend to be a bit more expensive. Have you considered investments for a steady income outside of adventuring?
Just a quick note before I indulge myself in another expensive dinner party: The budget is 1.129.000,- gold pieces. I've spent around 560.000 so far on the keep, that'll probably go up a bit but as far as I'm aware I have around half a million gold pieces to spend on military staff, which apart from having to guard my Keep also have to secure the surrounding countryside.
Working together with my DM on finding a good income source. But I like the advice so far, gives me a frame to work with. Oh and merry christmass, before I forget again.
Just a quick note before I indulge myself in another expensive dinner party: The budget is 1.129.000,- gold pieces. I've spent around 560.000 so far on the keep, that'll probably go up a bit but as far as I'm aware I have around half a million gold pieces to spend on military staff, which apart from having to guard my Keep also have to secure the surrounding countryside.
Working together with my DM on finding a good income source. But I like the advice so far, gives me a frame to work with. Oh and merry christmass, before I forget again.
Merry Christmas to you too. If you send me a blueprint (aramilnailochoda@yahoo.com), I can set up a good, strategical defense and figure out patrols for securing the countryside. I can complete it with half-a-mil, just remember that the gaurd has to be paid regularily so let me know any changes in income. Look for a natural income in the surrounding land (ie wood, mining, fishing) and see if you can't secure some territory on a heavy trade route.
Sent that email to you, Aramil.
Onto the point, I’m not looking to thin my guard numbers. If anything I’m looking for more. The 4x6 hour shifts were set up to avoid the -2 bonus on spot/listens checks guards suffer after more then 6 hours of standing guard on a particular spot.(source: Stronghold Builder Guide)
I’m going to see if I can borrow a scanner off someone (my own broke) and upload the schematics and you’ll see that 40 soldiers per shift will put the entire keep in a situation where are there are simply not enough sets of eyes to keep every approach and public area safe.
We’ve found two possible income sources so far, one being the temple(training of acolytes for the temple of Pelor will net me coin in return) and the other being the fact that the keep is exactly one days worth of travel outside the nearest port town and situated on the only trade route. I think tolling them and putting a few guard patrols on the road won’t hurt. Safer roads for the merchants, better trade for the town, more income for me and more importantly, a good excuse to patrol my roads.
While I don't have any force composition suggestions I do offer my own opinions on how you can avoid common problems. Don't change shifts or have tired gaurds on shift at times that provide an advantage (high noon, daybreak and dusk) to any enimies who would attack your fortress. Change gaurd an hour or so before each time. Also gaurd any irrigation ditches, sewage lines and any other entrance, no matter how irrelevant it may seem. I would also suggest having a way of looking for invisible or glamered creatures (perhaps a gem of true seeing mounted on the gate to your keep or a permanant invisibility purge). Also having a large supply of healing potions on hand (in case a clever enemy assassinates the healers you employ)would probably help. Just a quick note: don't build on a marsh or over a large cavern, try to build on solid rock.
I'm working with similar situations in my game.
I've noticed that alot of these suggestions are based around stopping a small group. That's good and all, but what happens to your 120 men when the enemy brings massive troop formations, seige equipement, or even monsters?
I say add some ranged defenses and counter-seige tactics/gear. Stop them long before they can even get to you.
I personally favor archers and would always add a couple to the patrols and always have archers posted on the walls. ( Comp. longbow + farshot + good spot bonus = good, but not to expensive, wall archer ) Arrowslits and battlements on the wall would allow for the archers to take cover and last longer.
And adding a balista/catapult or two on each wall couldn't hurt. Though expensive, they would provide a long, devastating reach against advancing siege equipement or large critters.
Going with these defenses, clear out any trees or non-vital buildings around the stronghold. The less they can hide in/under/behind, the easier they are to spot and thus, kill.
Try giving flasks of alchemist's fire to the guards on the walls; even taking it as far as arming the archers with alchemist arrows and loading the balista/catapult with similar ammunition. This would allow a potent defense against any siege equipement or large troop formations that made it past the balista/catapult fire.
Several alchemists and bowyers would allow for resupply and for alternate sources of income during the downtime.
Hope this helps.
-Kurocyn
Might I also recommend an aerie (sp?) for griffons/giant eagles/giant owls/pagasi/wyverns/whatever you can get your hands on that can fly? Excellent for scouting and tactical planning, and excellent for dropping big stones on enemies. There's a reason air power is so coveted in real militaries.
wow, I think your guys levels for your force is way high; seems to me that anyone 5th level or higher is a hero in their own right and not just some simple soilder; in 1st ed your troops all came to your automatically and costs for clerics to build was cheaper but most of your forces were 1st level and your commander might be as high as 5th. I am curious where you guys are getting the numbers for the levels of your troops; the cost of maintaining a garrison of that high level and number would be extraordinarily high.
...just remember that the gaurd has to be paid regularily so let me know any changes in income.
Speaking of income...what would the income be of all the people and soldiers woking for you? The topic came up and i thought it would be interesting to know..
Looking back over the levels, I agree that they are a bit high for my view of the typical campaign world, but then again, such a thing is highly subjective. Nevertheless, I would concur that the levels should be dropped. Standard troops should be around 1st to 3rd level, with the commanders reaching levels of 3 to 5. If you plan on having a contingent of spellcasters, they should be around level 5 or 6 for the arcanist, and if you have more or less a single priest, he should be around level 5 to 7. However, a group of clerics should be somewhere between 3rd to 5th level. You may also want to consider one "champion" type figure, who may be around 9th to 12th level. If this person is an arcanist, I wouldn't have more than three low level (4th or under) apprentices for him, rather than a cadre of mages. Same shpeel if the "champion" is a divine caster (only you call the underlings "acolytes" instead of "apprentices"). If this "champion" is a warrior type, then it really is just tacked on to the other troops buildups, rather than changing them in any way.
Again, this is purely my aesthetic sense of the issue, and I expect wild differences of opinion. Don't forget- unless I'm misreading this, you, a character of close to 20th level, will also be defending this keep, which is probably almost enough to stop an enemy in and of itself. Reducing the level of the troops makes it cheaper, or gives you far more servants for the same money, which is what I would prefer were I building the thing.
However, I still advise having an aerie, with at least two flying creatures for scouting and sending messages and getting past seiges if needed. I would advise no more than six such creatures if you plan on having a "wing" of them.
If your thinking about defense; dont forget about underneath; there are lots of creatures that have burrowing and such; might want to make sure your not building on top of an entrance to the underdark or something also. In this game you can never tell what is underneath your castle till it shows up and knocks down your door.
Another thing that should be thought about is, going along the line of a atleast a medium army, a couple monsters? It's always good to have a monster traveling with a patrol group who might be able to things they can't.