Does Gouging Claw stack with Runic Body

[Lannister2112]

Does Gouging Claw stack with Runic Body?

The sticking point:

Runic body says "All its unarmed attacks become +1 striking unarmed attacks..."
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1657

Gouging Claw says "Make a melee spell attack roll"
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1546

Its weird because GC is a morph - even tho its a spell attack roll, you're making an attack with your unarmed weapon.

And if its a spell attack does that mean that Gouging Claw counts as magic, for the sake of monster resistances?

Thanks in advance!

[Xenocrat]

Spell attacks are not unarmed or weapon attacks. They are a whole separate category that them breaks down to melee or ranged.

No interaction.

[Lannister2112]

Its weird that GC is a spell attack. I think its the only morph spell that does this. Wooden Fists, Snake Fangs, Dragon Claws... all work off a an unarmed attack.

[Finoan]

Lannister2112 wrote:

Its weird that GC is a spell attack. I think its the only morph spell that does this. Wooden Fists, Snake Fangs, Dragon Claws... all work off a an unarmed attack.

It's possible that it is the only Morph spell that doesn't create an Unarmed Attack, but instead scales its damage like a spell. I haven't checked for others myself.

It certainly isn't the only (non-Morph) spell effect that uses its own damage scaling mechanism rather than relying on weapon runes to provide that - Spiritual Armament also is described as creating a weapon, but it is a weapon that uses the spell Rank to determine damage instead of weapon runes.

And of course, there are also non-Morph spell effects that use weapon runes for their scaling. Mostly by having their damage based off of a weapon that is being wielded. The first example I can think of is Hand of the Apprentice.

The general design goal is that either the effect's damage will scale by itself, or it will use weapon runes (usually by being an unarmed attack and having Handwraps apply). You don't get both. The best illustration of this design as a requirement is the change from Legacy Bestial Mutagen to Remaster Bestial Mutagen.

Legacy Bestial Mutagen created an unarmed attack that was affected by handwraps with Striking runes. Higher levels of Mutagen would increase the die size.

Remaster Bestial Mutagen created an unarmed attack, but one that provides its own damage die count scaling. Higher levels of Mutagen increase both the die size and the number of damage dice. However, it has an override rule preventing it from being affected by Striking rune effects.

You only ever get one or the other - inherent damage scaling, or Striking rune scaling. Never both.

[Lannister2112]

Another question on gouging claw... it gives range touch, target 1 creature.

I initially thought that meant I could cast it on anyone, I could morph the paladin if he lost his sword, that kind of thing. But the target rather, is the creature being attacked, yes?
"You temporarily morph YOUR limb into a clawed appendage."

Which again, seems weird for a morph spell. Maybe that me thinking like a 1e spell, where you'd say the range was "personal".

anyways....

"Make a melee spell attack roll against your target's AC." is part of the spell, I take that to mean the spell comes with an attack action. It does have the attack trait.

So when an action is spent to sustain the spell, does that include an attack? Seems like it should.

[HammerJack]

You make an attack roll as part of the spell. Not a subordinate action, that's just the spell effect. The target of one creature is the creature that is getting attacked.

It is not a Sustained spell, so there is no "when you sustain". The spell has no duration. It makes the attack and is then over.

[Finoan]

Gouging Claw is not sustained.

Many spells are touch range and deal damage. Most target saving throws, but there are a couple of others that target AC: Withering Grasp and Threefold Limb.

The spell does have the Morph trait and it is described as transforming your hand into a claw. But it is more similar to other more standard spells like the melee version of Ignition, Legacy Shocking Grasp, and Imaginary Weapon.