After reading Sebastian's X-men post I noticed that many people don't seem to mind parody in their adventures. Some even seem to get a kick out of it. This kind of surprised me and has me curious as to what the split among us might be. I've just started penning a couple of adventure outlines for Dungeon and taking the pulse of all you brilliant DMs probably isn't such a bad idea as I may, just may be missing the boat on this one.
I've spoken across a few posts about why I think parody upends the suspension of disbelief required in even a fantasy game. Personally, I believe that the realization that you're engaged in parody makes you suddenly hyper-aware that you're dealing with fiction, and you never want your audience coming up from their submersion into the reality your fiction has supplied them. It's like in many movies where, at about 70 minutes in, bad pacing makes itself evident. You'll notice half the people in the theater start looking at their watches. Not because the movie is all that bad but because they were snapped out of the dream.
Dungeon's first editor freaked when I included a witch from Westwick in one of three adventure outline queries I sent together. She actually wrote, "This is clearly a rip-off of the Witches of Eastwick!"
I guess she didn't understand that I was trying to being clever and not just some hack. I won't ever mention what she said about a golem creator named Frangenstone. I think I must have driven her hair white on that day. Well, I never bothered to submit to Dungeon again and certainly watched my ass when considering parody in the marketplace.
There's a difference between referencing another work of fiction in your own, and outright recreating a certain scene from a certain movie, only playing it out with slightly changed names on the D&D stage. What's more, why would I want to share this stage and not let my work stand on its own two feet and have its very own identity? Did you know that adventures have two feet? There was an ecology article in Dragon about them a couple of years ago.
I guess a counter point would be that it looks like many you really enjoy the mid-game realization that you are reenacting a favorite movie scene or novel chapter. In that case both using parody or not using it may just please different groups.
How do you folks feel about it, if at all? Am I taking this a bit too seriously considering that this is writing for a game with lots of asides and little chance of full immersion? I play the game as if what we're all doing is very very important and everyone stays in character.
Am I confusing a personal preference for proper writing strategy? I'd be especially curious to see the Paizo Staff weigh in here.
Creative Director
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My preference is no parody. I'm okay with adventures drawing upon other sources as inspiration, but you need to both do something new with old stories and you need to make them internally consistent. The original version of "Man Forever" had a LOT more batman references... a LOT. What remains in the adventrue now is relatively minor, to an extent that after seeing the original, I felt it was minor enough that it'd be okay. Apparently, a lot of folk found even what remained in there to be overkill, so I probably should have kept cutting. The X-men reference from Graymalkin Academy I'm tempted to write off as coincidence; it's minor enough that none of us at Paizo noticed it, and we're far from comic book-blind.
In any case, adventrue proposals that are obviously parodies will almost never get into Dungeon. And don't take that as a challenge; if you try to sneak parodies in the magazine, we'll eventually find out and could get cranky.
My preference is no parody. I'm okay with adventures drawing upon other sources as inspiration, but you need to both do something new with old stories and you need to make them internally consistent. The original version of "Man Forever" had a LOT more batman references... a LOT. What remains in the adventrue now is relatively minor, to an extent that after seeing the original, I felt it was minor enough that it'd be okay. Apparently, a lot of folk found even what remained in there to be overkill, so I probably should have kept cutting. The X-men reference from Graymalkin Academy I'm tempted to write off as coincidence; it's minor enough that none of us at Paizo noticed it, and we're far from comic book-blind.
In any case, adventrue proposals that are obviously parodies will almost never get into Dungeon. And don't take that as a challenge; if you try to sneak parodies in the magazine, we'll eventually find out and could get cranky.
So my original course was best for the Dungeon. Thanks for replying, James. You made short work of that quandry.
In any case, adventrue proposals that are obviously parodies will almost never get into Dungeon. And don't take that as a challenge; if you try to sneak parodies in the magazine, we'll eventually find out and could get cranky.
Of course, I'd never parody... I already said so. But, um, when you get my submission for Gone With The Flind just uh, toss it out. I was just testing you.
"I don't know nuthin' 'bout sparin' no humans!"
Wha?
No Rouge Butler?
No Scarlett O Hara Kiri?
Oh, well. After all, tomorrow is another day...
I'll bet Fakey read that only to feel disappointed that you actually meant to say rouge.
Moowa ha ha ha ha...
You sound like the blackguard in my latest Dungeon submission. His name is Varth Dader.
Parody + D&D = s~%!e
Remember the old "Castle Greyhawk" dungeon?
I rest my case...
Personally, I just love obscure references which might not mean anything to anyone else other than me...sometimes I put those references as sort of memory device for myself and they are not even meant to be understood by the players.
Personally, I have read good amount of X-Men comics and I'm not sure if I have ever come across to name Greymalkin. MAybe they have started to use that name more lately...
Personally, I have read good amount of X-Men comics and I'm not sure if I have ever come across to name Greymalkin. MAybe they have started to use that name more lately...
Greymalkin as an X-men address has been around for a long time but it's probably more of a lore thing; the way we know that Bruce Wayne lives in Wayne Manor even though you can read a hundred Batman comics and never see the place listed. They just assume you know already.
And the obscure references that you place in your adventures, references that the players won't even recognize as such, are certainly no harm no foul.
I was more talking about situations where characters come up against Alexander the Spiffy, defeat the Tarrasque's brother Zogdilla. That and stealing scenes from famous movies and converting them, sans camouflage, for D&D play. Like having to toss a magic ring into the volcano at Mount Mood. Though certainly not in every case, sometimes homage to one's favorite works is a thin cover for lack of original thought.
However some people like a funkier style of play, and parody is very much up their ally. It's a game and you can make of it whatever you want to if you and your players are having fun. I was really just looking for Dungeon to be declarative in their editorial tastes and declarative they obviously were.
So now we know. :)
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Personally, I have read good amount of X-Men comics and I'm not sure if I have ever come across to name Greymalkin. MAybe they have started to use that name more lately...Greymalkin as an X-men address has been around for a long time but it's probably more of a lore thing; the way we know that Bruce Wayne lives in Wayne Manor even though you can read a hundred Batman comics and never see the place listed. They just assume you know already.
It was also used as the name of an asteroid base of some type.
I'm surprised that the Paizo staff wasn't on board with the X-men reference. IIRC, it was the preview for the issue that dripped with the most references. I believe it said something along the lines of an academy for gifted students, basically parrotting the language used to describe Xavier's school. Coupled with Man Forever, I figured it was another intentional reference.
Oh well, I'll have to find something new to fuel my conspiracy theories.
Oh well, I'll have to find something new to fuel my conspiracy theories.
SPOILER!!!!!
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Look no further than "The Twilight Tomb's" very Doom Patrol/Teen Titan big black hat who also showed shades of "Grim and Evil's" supervillian Hector Con Carne. I mean really, the monkey only needed an AK-47, fatigues, and a French accent.
;)
GGG
In any case, adventrue proposals that are obviously parodies will almost never get into Dungeon. And don't take that as a challenge; if you try to sneak parodies in the magazine, we'll eventually find out and could get cranky.Of course, I'd never parody... I already said so. But, um, when you get my submission for Gone With The Flind just uh, toss it out. I was just testing you.
"I don't know nuthin' 'bout sparin' no humans!"
This post consumed my daily smile. I now need to rest before I can smile again.
This post consumed my daily smile. I now need to rest before I can smile again.In any case, adventrue proposals that are obviously parodies will almost never get into Dungeon. And don't take that as a challenge; if you try to sneak parodies in the magazine, we'll eventually find out and could get cranky.Of course, I'd never parody... I already said so. But, um, when you get my submission for Gone With The Flind just uh, toss it out. I was just testing you.
"I don't know nuthin' 'bout sparin' no humans!"
Are you recharged yet? Because I've got a few Close Encounters of the Thri-Kreen jokes that'll floor ya!
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I cast Raise Eyebrow and I rolled a 20 on my Shake Head (Disappointment) check.
I don't really care for parody in my adventures. If they are, in fact, parodies and not just adventures that use elements we may reconize (from coincidence or intention) from other works. Parody generally assumes an element of comedy, which I have never cared for in RPG's, expecially D&D. I would be playing no D&D, though, if I limited my adventures to ones that had zero similarity to some other work of fiction in some way.
If we try and rid future works of fantasy of all references that might be similar to other works, then we might as well give up now.
I'm sorry, but this thread gives me images of the Army Officer in Monty Python who is continually shutting down the sketches because they are too silly.
"...It's a dog's life (clears throat) I mean a man's life in today's modern Army..."
Mmm hmm.