Just an idea I was kicking around. I wonder how feasible it would be to do a spin off of Dungeon Magazine that is solely dedicated to the adventure path.
We are told that the adventure path magazines are an immensly popular portion of the magizine and that sales have increased as a result. I am guessing that a majority of people who would subscribe would be interested in their Dungeon subscription as well (meaning it wouldn't be a large split in your customer base... similar to how I would imagine most Dungeon subscribers, though not all, subscribe to Dragon). So monetarily it might make sense (obviously I have no numbers to solution such an undertaking).
The Dungeon staff has made it clear that it takes more effort and time to create the adventure paths, so it couldn't use the same staff that is currently on Dungeon. As long as the resources were paid for in the profits of the mag though, that is is all good. Additionally it is likely that resources from one magazine could be leveraged to assist in others as needed (I am sure this happens currently between Dungeon and Dragon and the more employees you have the more efficient and streamlined you can make things).
Content might actually be easier than for Dungeon as you are no longer dealing with submissions and people who you are unsure if they will make a deadline. You are soliciting work from known entities. Also you could put in more of the background info that people are clamoring for (the content that goes in the web overloads for instance), as well as things like Dragons Wormfood articles.
As for the Dungeon magazine it would be fine for content as well. It is only changing 1/3 of its content load and if I understand things properly reducing the workload of the current staff. This means that an additional generic adventure would need to be managed, but I don't get the impression there is a shortage of submissions (based on the "black hole" threads).
There would likely be a drop in Dungeons subscription base, at least at first, but I think it would be minimal.
Anyway... something to chew on... I for one would happily subscribe to both.
Sean Mahoney
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One of my concerns about Adventure Paths is that there is some novelty associated with them. If a magazine were to be exclusively tied to an adventure path, it might be cool for a while ... but how long could it be self-sustaining. Moreover, what if a subscriber isn't fond of a particular adventure path. Wasted subscription.
In the end, I like having adventure paths in Dungeon ... but I certainly hope that Paizo doesn't overkill the concept. Point in fact - I've really enjoyed this break betweenb adventure paths and the one shot adventures we've been given.
Three really cool things about one-shot adventures:
1. They can be strung together with only a little tweaking to form their own adventure path.
2. You are in control, given the number of avdentures we get in Dungeon, to design where the path leads.
3. If you have more than one DM in a group, all DMs can tag team through an adventure path, adding adventures and putting their own spin on things.
That said, I like pre-fab adventure paths, too. SCAP and AOW were awesome. I am expecting the same degree of professionalism and pleasure to come from the next one. I just don't want Dungeon inundated with adventure path after adventure path ... nor do I want to have to travel elsewhere to shop for an adventure path.
Nope. I think Paizo has hit on giving us the best of both worlds. Good for them! And good for us!
Well, you would still have your three adventures in Dungeon which would remain as it is now between adventure paths. Additionally you could choose to have an even more indepth adventure path.
It just seems like the adventure paths are as or more popular than the rest of the magazine. Just taking a look at the boards there is as much traffic on just the Age of Worms section as there is in the General section of Dungeon (I am not contending that the messageboards are the best representation of the interest levels, but they are all the data I have available).
I guess you would be shopping elsewhere for more adventure paths in this case, but isn't more better? Wouldn't you love to get the three adventures you are getting now as is AND get an adventure path adventure, backdrop, AP-Food(ish) article and perhaps maybe tips on running the AP culled from the boards. And all of that for JUST 2x the price?!?! lol... ok... a little corny, but I know I would pay that in a second. Can't get enough...
Will there be people who can't pay for both? Yep. Does that mean that Piazo will make less money? Maybe, if they are spending say 2x the amount and only making 1.5 times the amount then they are getting less ROI. However, I would be willing to bet (see how freely I bet other peoples money?) that more than 1/2 the current subscribers to Dungeon would also chooose to subscribe to second magazine dedicated to an adventure path.
Sean Mahoney
Hrmm... I do see one fatal flaw though... naming this thing.
So, we have Dungeon and we have Dragon. Both support the Dungeons & Dragons game... would this have to be call "&"?
Alright... probably not that funny a joke. That is what I get for having a drink after work.
I suppose you could name it something like "Dungeon: Campaigns" or just "Dungeon: Adventure Path"
Sean Mahoney
Creative Director
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Spinning off an "Adventure Path" magazine would be bad; there's an excellent chance that doing so would kill both it AND Dungeon. Launching a new magazine is tremendously expensive and risky (witness the fates of Amazing and Undefeated and Top Deck and so on and so on...), especially since competition for shelf space and getting subscribers to sign on to a new magazine is so daunting. At this point, Dungeon is actually doing quite well; splitting our audience by splitting the magazine while at the same time doubling the workload would not only kill both magazines, come to think of it, but would kill the editoial and art staff as well.
I wouldn't expect a new D&D magazine any time soon from Paizo, is another way of putting it.
I´d rather see a hardcover of each AP after it has run its course in Dungeon. I haven´t bought the SCAP yet, as I simply don´t need it at present, but I´ll buy it sooner or later.
Stefan
I think how we get them now is probably for best - I cant run more than one campaign of adventure path size in a year - so the thought of them being a separate magazine with more pages. Nice for the shelf, but they would end up gathering dust as I fall further and further behind running them.
I also think that launching a new magazine wouldn't be such a good idea...I don't see quite that large pull for it and it might also then take away the pull from Dungeon (and Dragon). They are fine as they are now though I do appreciate also the pause between the paths. And even if I wouldn't run the paths there is always something usable or interesting.
Oh, and I also enjoy the "mini-campaigns" like that three-part vampire series.
I´d rather see a hardcover of each AP after it has run its course in Dungeon. I haven´t bought the SCAP yet, as I simply don´t need it at present, but I´ll buy it sooner or later.
Stefan
I agree with Stefan.
Stefan
...come to think of it, but would kill the editoial and art staff as well.
Oh sure, the old "I won't do it because it would kill me" defense... I see how it is ;P
Well, I certainly can't argue costs with you as I don't have the numbers and you do, but I don't think it would be as detrimental as you might. Unlike the other mags you mentioned this would have an existing base to pull from...
Anyway, just a thought... no biggie if I don't see it. I am pleased with Dungeon as is, but I find that I would like more than Dungeon provides... it is good enough to make me wish I could spend more on it.
Sean Mahoney
If I were betting, I'd say Dungeon typically serves up a lot more game time per month than the majority of readers actually have.
I couldn't agree more. But doesn't that mean that many people buying the mag are happy to just read the content? If that is the case they may be happy to read more.
Sean Mahoney
I agree, the market isn't strong enough to support two Dungeon magazines. Adventure Path Magazine would just be buying a 1-20 campaign in monthly installments. Dungeon's advantage is that it includes stand-alone adventures in addition to the Adventure Path, and each type supports the other.
In other words, adventure paths are good because if you buy a few in the series you have an incentive to continue to buy to follow the series, as with Japanese manga weeklies. The standard adventures are good because if you subscribe then you build yourself a resource to draw on when you need a ready-made adventure of your players' current level.
These two motivations support each other. If you run the Paths you're unlikely to need the non-path adventures, but if you quit a path mid-way you still have the beginnings of a resource built up that gives you an incentive to keep buying. Conversely, you might buy it for its own sake and consider quitting, only to keep buying because Savage Tide has piqued your interest.
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If I were betting, I'd say Dungeon typically serves up a lot more game time per month than the majority of readers actually have.I couldn't agree more. But doesn't that mean that many people buying the mag are happy to just read the content? If that is the case they may be happy to read more.
Sean Mahoney
Hmmm.... in a world of infinite free time and infinite money, I'd agree with you, but my already full life and ever-empty wallet (much like the gaming market itself) can only really bear so much Dungeony Goodness.
I vote (and have just done so - ordered SCAP HC from my flgs yesterday) with my wallet.
I prefer getting hardcover compilations of the Adventure Paths.
I vote (and have just done so - ordered SCAP HC from my flgs yesterday) with my wallet.
The thing is you aren't really voting with your wallet (though thank you for supporting such a great product, I want to see more hardcovers too), as there is no choice between hardcovers and a AP magazine... you can only buy one... and not because you only have so much money.
I vote (and have just done so - ordered SCAP HC from my flgs yesterday) with my wallet.The thing is you aren't really voting with your wallet (though thank you for supporting such a great product, I want to see more hardcovers too), as there is no choice between hardcovers and a AP magazine... you can only buy one... and not because you only have so much money.
better salse of an existing product promote the continuation of that product (and that type of product). ;) It's kind of a vote...
;) It's kind of a vote...
You are absolutely right. But it is a vote between doing or not doing a reprint of material from Dungeon as a hard cover book. When it comes down to it that is the decision they will make based on this purchase. Or more accurately in this case they will already have decided if purchase levels will warrant another such compilation (and the trouble it takes to get authorization from Wizards), instead this will help determine how long the print run will be for other similar products (such as a potential Age of Worms hard bound compilation).
Either way I am glad you 'voted' the way you did. It is a great product and it deserves to be supported in my opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't want a full magizine dedicated to just it...
And don't get me wrong, I am not delusional, I have no expectation that this would come to light... just a wish and a whimsy.
Sean Mahoney