I don't want to launch into anything until everyone that checks into this thread realizes that I may let fly with the spoilers, so I'll try to keep the opening comments fairly neutral.
I am still trying to figure out if its my inherant comic book fan nature that is getting in the way of me enjoying this movie, or if there really are flaws to this that go beyond the "they changed too much" complaint of the fanboy.
I have to say that some of the things that happened that "should not have" definately had some impact since you didn't expect them and they were played very emotionally.
I got the feeling that Storm got a lot more screen time and some new character traits and responsibilities becuse Hallie Barry was grousing about playing Storm again. Not that Storm shouldn't have been team leader since Scott wandered off, but Storm seemed to go from "still struggling team leader" to "inspirational leader of the cause" faster than Charles could ignore his half-brother . . . ahem . . . sorry.
I also had the feeling that a certain major even happened just to reinforce that Storm was in charge. And I felt that another major event that happened earlier basically happened so that Wolverine essentially got to fill in for the other character, mainly because of his popularity and the fact that a Wolverine movie may be still in the offing.
It felt like the writers didn't know what to do with Rogue, so they did what they ended up doing.
Beast going from job one, to the X-Men, back to "new job" felt like a cheesy feel good Hollywood ending to me, as did the way the whole film wrapped up.
I would have been more upset by the whole lack of connection between Juggernaut and Charles, but if you watch the movie, there really isn't a point to go into it, all things considered.
I don't mind some things changing in the story. Rogue and Iceman getting together in the earlier movies didn't really bother me. Shifting which students were older and which ones were younger didn't really bother me, because, overall, the characters still had the same histories, personalities, etc. But too much seemed to change here based on some things that bothered me:
1) Stuff changed to make an actor happy.
2) Stuff changed to pander to the popularity of characters.
3) Stuff changed to let us know that this was the end of the franchise (at least as a team storyline).
I guess I have to sum up by saying that after watching this, I'm not sure I'm that interested in seeing a Wolverine movie.
I'm not saying its an awful movie. Part of it were very moving, well acted, and well paced, and story wise, I don't know that it doesn't succeed as a movie divorced of its topic. I just know I have a hard time with divorcing the movie from its source material.
Oh . . . I WANT TO SEE MORE THAN JUST A SENTINEL HEAD!
~grumbles~ Yes. I felt that they screwed the movie up too. It should have been about the Sentinels, not about the BS they made it out to be. On the other hand, there was enough in there for me to give it a c+ over all.
From a pure action movie point of view, it does a lot better than a lot of Hollywood crap, I will give it credit there . . . although there was one plot hole that has nothing to do with continuity that bothers me now that I think of it.
Beast, Wolverine, Storm, Iceman, Kitty, and Colossus are trying to "hold the line." Kitty takes off on her solo mission. Storm starts fighting Callisto solo, not taking on hordes of enemies.
This leaves Wolverine, Iceman, Beast, and Colossus to "hold the line." Why didn't Magneto just take Wolverine and Colossus out of the fight?
And why the heck didn't Iceman and Storm to a little more "mass combat" since they are the best ones to affect large areas and groups of people all at once?
All gripes aside, I must say I liked Kitty outsmarting Juggernaut . . . twice.
From a pure action movie point of view, it does a lot better than a lot of Hollywood crap, I will give it credit there . . .
I agree with KnightErrantJR on practically everything he said.
On the positive side, there were lots of cool fights, lots of well-made action scenes, and lots of mutants. On the negative side, although some of the story elements just made us scream "that just shouldn't of happened!", those same sequences actually took us on roller coaster ride onto the unknown... Actually suprising us a few times during the film; Which didn't happen very often in recent movies.
While some might say that (and probably with good reason) that hollywood screwed up the story big time, the film is still a blast to watch and I highly recomend it to anyone who wants to see some cool super-human fights.
As a fellow superhero, I give it a 7 out of 10; Not the best movie in the world, but still tons of fun (and quite frankly much better than some other super-hero movies (like Fantastic Four)).
Ultradan
Oh, and for those of you who don't know...
... Stay and watch the entire credits for a little treat at the very end of the movie!
Ultradan
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SPOILERS
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I can't really disagree with any of the gripes here, and I thought the whole middle of the movie was a little slow-going. But the final battle, whether magneto dusted Colossus and Wolverine or not, was flippin' sweet, and it made the whole thing, flawed as it was, worth seeing. Just liked seeing Beast bouncing around all over the place, and the ole' fastball special...also...
Kitty Pryde rules!
I agree though, MORE SENTINELS!
And it beat the hell out of Electra...(yoips!)
I know . . . I just kept waiting for some kind of sentinel lovin' to happen besides the Danger Room. I mean, the one advisor to the president was Trask . . . I thought that was some kind of forshadowing . . . okay Trask, do whatever is needed . . . BOOM . . . activate the Sentinels. But no.
I'm still refraining from throwing out TOO many spoilers, but after discussing this with a few friends, I have calmed down a bit, and realize that this movie is just as open to the "revolving door to death's domain" as any X-Men story is.
All I have to say that they BUTCHERED the franchise...totally
I was disappointed in the quality of the movie (compared to how Spiderman II was better than the first) but mostly very surprised how poor the plot and screenplay was
even the little teaser at the end about how Magneto and Professer X may return doesn't cover the fact they really f'ed up any 4th movie instalment
but MOST OF ALL why didn't they just throw Leech and Jean Gray and Save everyone?? Sheesh...'Nuff Said
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In case you're wondering if the reason you didn't like the movie was because it was so much different from the comic, I can tell you that's probably not the only reason. I didn't read the comic and I loved the first two movies, but this one was a real let down. Other than the mutant wonder-drug there was really no coherent story-line that held the whole thing together. Instead, the movie consisted of several under-developed subplots, none of which got enough screen time.
1. If that's all they were going to do with Angel, then what was the point of including him at all?
2. The whole Pheonix storyline was there and was just sort of happening, with one thing after another... it could have been a lot better than that.
3. Did none of the kids like Jean or Cyclops because everyone was so upset with the thing with the Professor but no one, not even storm, seemed to really care when all the other stuff happen.
4. They gave us all of these extra mutants, it seems, just so they could distract us from the fact that the plot was really sucky. Apparently, watching people use their cool mutant powers is better than a good storyline...
All in all, they ruined yet another good set of movies. It's almost like it puts a negative stigma on the entire set. I can certainly say that, while I like owning a complete set of things, regardless of how I feel about them, I don't think I can bring myself to purchase this money-making scheme of a movie.
According to the box office sales, there is going to be a X-Men 4. Marvel is too greedy to let go.
Let's hope Singer is back. I think most of the problems came down to directing and the fact that the director wanted to drop as much X-lore as possible into the mix. Example: Angel's wings bursting out of harness and throwing the orderlies back is a cool frame in a comic book. But on film it does not work with a 90 lb kid. Also his only other point was to catch his dad--so why have him? Same with most of the other (new) characters, (and the bridge ack.) There was no plot advancement just eye-candy and eye candy can only go so far.
I dunno. I'm usually the odd guy when it comes to movies (hated Spiderman 2, ABHORED the crap out of Revenge of the Sith) and apparently here too. I loved the third X-Men movie. The fact that there were such fundamental changes to the story (particularly the signature villain--wow!) I thought took real guts. I similarly liked how the central crises had personal import for the characters involved. The characters all had a real stake in things. No one came out unchanged or unscarred. Emotions and characters were in the fore. The setting going in and the setting coming out are nearly unrecognizable--I don't think it'd be going to far to say that the film is a good setup to Age of Apocalypse (however minus that world's greatest savior who suffers in this version of things about the worst fate he can imagine!)
Anyway great flick. I hope there's more. I want very much to see where this goes. I just hope people don't flake out and do the whole Search for Spock thing and try to restore everything to how it was before the Big Changes took place. That would really really disappoint me.
Am I evil for pictureing the same scene with Angel rescuing his father with Angel being Archangel, and one of those steel wings accidentally taking his father's head off while Archangel wasn't paying attention?
DUDE that movie wasnt that good...I mean, compared to the magazines and stuff...cyclops dies, xavier dies, phoenix dies. I don't quite remember but, doesn't phoenix teletransports everyone to some other plane and stuff?(comics) ANd the 'antidotes' really exist in the comics? AND WHERE THE HELL IS GAMBIT?!?!?!?
The closest thing to the Cure (the chemical substance, not the 80's band) that I remember in the comics was Forge's Nullifier, an energy weapon that could take away a mutant's powers, that the government commishioned Forge to create. Storm lost her powers for a LONG time after being hit with it, but they did return.
I also wish they had explained Jean's first telepathic episode, when she was a girl. It would have explained her hesitancy to use her full abilities, and not just made it seem like Xavier arbitrarily gave her a split personality because he didn't want to deal with how powerful she was.
BTW, for anyone that didn't read the comics, Jean first learned she was telepathic when she linked to her friend as she was hit by a car and died. This made her reluctant to get close to anyone, made her scared of her powers, and prompted her parents to contact Xavier about her abilities and to try and help her.
BTW, for anyone that didn't read the comics, Jean first learned she was telepathic when she linked to her friend as she was hit by a car and died. This made her reluctant to get close to anyone, made her scared of her powers, and prompted her parents to contact Xavier about her abilities and to try and help her.
so...u'r trying to tell me that she died when she was 7...u better explain this or i'll get pissed off..
so...u'r trying to tell me that she died when she was 7...u better explain this or i'll get pissed off..
no, jean grays friend died, not jean...the trauma that she was telepathically linked to her friend when her friend was hit by a car....
Normally I'm a big hardcase when it comes to insuring continuity and canonicity, but comic books are just so disjointed and often dated with a bunch of cheesy 70's ideas living as uncomfortable consorts to new cool ideas. I really appreciate it when the retellings try to slim down the bulk of crazy ideas and make things more meaningful. I mean wasn't the phoenix originally some kind of energy space alien? I find the new explaination infinitely more appealing. Its like the goshawful radioactive spider. Just let it go. I really enjoyed the new story they told here, even though I'm pretty sure it barely touches base with the original comics--but then they don't go flying to the purple moon of Xenu to talk with the furry tiger people or travel back in time to fight the Nazis so I'll call myself lucky.
no, jean grays friend died, not jean...the trauma that she was telepathically linked to her friend when her friend was hit by a car....
so...u'r trying to tell me that she died when she was 7...u better explain this or i'll get pissed off..
AHHHHH.......thanx...now this thing about fighting Nazi is killing me...just don't tell me that there were jewish mutants helping the X men too...or that wolverine fights and kills Hitler(mush cooler than he drinking f*ing poison)
As seen in the first movie, Erik Lensher, aka Magneto, was a jew during WWII (though he was older in the comics when this happened).
The other link to WWII and the X-Men has to do with Logan. Logan is pretty old, an doesn't remember a lot of his past. At one point in time, in Madripoor (a fictitious Asian nation in the Marvel universe), Logan and Captain America fought against Baron Von Strucker (founder of Hydra and former Nazi). No time travel involed there.
Unfortunately there isn't enough room on the forums to detail the time travel adventures that the X-Men DID have.
I will concede that I didn't WANT them to introduce some of the more fantastic elements of the X-Mythos, such as the Savage Land, the Shi'ar Empire, the Brood, or even Apocolips. But there are ways that you can skim the weirder elements and still stay true to the source material's "intent."
For example, if they had introduced that bit about how Jean learned about her powers, they wouldn't have had to make it seem like Charles just screwed with Jean's mind because he didn't want to deal with how powerful she was.
If you wanted Scott out of the picture, you could have set the movie far enough away from the last movie (2 or 3 years?) that Scott had remarried Madeline (without having to get into who SHE was).
I guess they were running out of $ in the case of cyclops(he only shows up for 30 min and then "gets killed" by jean)..but yeah...I don't like that guy(being polite) anyways. I've always liked Logan the best.
The thing that got me thinking is: shouldn'd wolverine know sabretooth in the movie?!?!?...and wherE THE HELL IS GAMBIT!?!?!?
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DUDE that movie wasnt that good...I mean, compared to the magazines and stuff...cyclops dies, xavier dies, phoenix dies. I don't quite remember but, doesn't phoenix teletransports everyone to some other plane and stuff?(comics) ANd the 'antidotes' really exist in the comics? AND WHERE THE HELL IS GAMBIT?!?!?!?
After Forty years of X-Men comics where none of these guys ever gets killed, seeing the movie was refreshing. Marvel heroes must have revolving doors on their coffins.
Ok, but still, WHERE THE HELL IS GAMBIT!?!?!?!?!?
I agree though, MORE SENTINELS!
Agreed. They avoided using the sentinels in the movies yet it's the introduction in the Fox Animated show years ago. The Sentinels helped "sell" the X-men to viewers and the xmen's position as a force for good. Maybe it's beating a dead horse but the danger room scene was absolutely cheesy. Although it was a better movie then most every other movie in the theaters.
(just be glad i calmed down a little since i saw it)
Here's hoping for a better sequel!
My biggest problem with the movie:
Magneto was not the mastermind he rightfully should have been. He should have at *least seen the "plastics tactics" used at the end of the movie coming. Surely if the military is going to weaponize something to use against mutants, they'll take precautions against their number-one target.
At the end, he looked stricken as if wondering where things went so wrong... something the audience is left wondering as well.
I was also wondering how you make night vision goggles without any metal components, especially when they have those nifty digital readouts in them . . . but that was not the biggest issue I had with this, lol.
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I thought the movie was okay...
I expected them to change many things from the books like they already did in the first two.
I had about zero expectations besides being entertained and so i could enjoy the movie. There where really great scenes like Magneto blasting away the prisoner convoy.
What bothered me was that they used this anti-mutant device to beat Magneto and didn't waste a thought on the possibility that it might've been able to save Jean.
What i found really really cool was the danger-room sequence in the beginning. This really made me want to see a 'Days Of Future Past'-movie. That would be great!