Hi everyone. It's my second time posting here.(my first post didn't go so well) But anyway as the name states. Evil+Bard. But truely, I can't see a bard as evil. Maybe a bit sarcastic and annoying, but bards and evil don't mix. So i'll give you backstory. It's around that time again, SUMMER! No school, just D&D, and a whole lotta friends. My DM comes to school today and says "Hey everyone I got a whole buncha new campaigns to try over the summer!". It got me worried because he had about 8 to try but eventually I found out that we would not do all just the ones that seemed appealing.(gosh darnit I better hit epic this summer...Epic sorcerer!)
So we decided evil one, AOW(were already well into that), the one with the sorcerer(it's called Age of Oppurtunity), and some other one. Let me say i've never been a Bard but look forward to it, even if everyone says they are underpowerd. I will be a gnome named Gubbaffet(tell me if you know that name, and to spark memory look at this ~GtG...) Titersnitch, and an evil one at that. Think about a crazy phsyco evil gnome bard... So there you have the back story. My DM has the Libris Mortis and was thinking of prestiging into a Dirge Singer. Than perstige into one of those Sublime Chord things. To tell the truth I like the thought of the Bard more than the stats of the Bard, so the prestiges look appealing to me. Could you tell me if you have any experience with a character in one of those prestiges. Or just perhaps with a Bard. I would love to hear about it. Oh and if you know of a neat prestige class for the bard please tell me about it. I will look forward to checking back, goodbye for now.
~Love the Flab
Hi everyone. It's my second time posting here.(my first post didn't go so well) But anyway as the name states. Evil+Bard. But truely, I can't see a bard as evil. Maybe a bit sarcastic and annoying, but bards and evil don't mix.
Then you've obviously never seen a proper bard. A bard bent on bringing down the rest of the PCs can follow them along while they're on adventures, helping them out and generally making himself a valuable resource... and then when they're not watching he can jot down notes or work on composing new songs. Then, when the party gets back to town and they've saved Little Timmy from the Giants, or whatever, he can go sneak off to the other Bar and perform his new piece: What "really" happened, which exposes how the PCs were in fact working with the Giants to scam the villagers, but when the villagers wouldn't pay up they decided to betray the Giants in hopes of a reward for their "heroism". (Or whatever) You get your Craft, Bluff, and Perform skills up and you're set.
Alternatively, the Evil bard can be a master con artist. Once you hit seventh level and get access to Glibness, you have the ability to convince the younger dragons that their wings are purely decorative. Convincing them that they've contracted a rare disease and accepting a portion of their horde in payment for curing it should be simple enough, right?
My DM has the Libris Mortis and was thinking of prestiging into a Dirge Singer. Than perstige into one of those Sublime Chord things. To tell the truth I like the thought of the Bard more than the stats of the Bard, so the prestiges look appealing to me. Could you tell me if you have any experience with a character in one of those prestiges. Or just perhaps with a Bard. I would love to hear about it. Oh and if you know of a neat prestige class for the bard please tell me about it.
I've never played a Sublime Chord or Dirgesinger. If you're looking for a Bard Prestige Class with more of a combat focus, you might look at the Seeker of the Song or the Stormsinger (Complete Arcane and Frostburn, respectively). If you're looking for more of a focus on the manipulative side of things, the Evangelist (Complete Divine) and Virtuoso (Complete Adventurer, I believe) are worth a look. The Evangelist gets some abilities that are particularly handy if you like to use Diplomacy.
In any event, if your bard is the Leader type, taking levels in the Marshal base class (Miniature's Handbook) could be advantageous. If nothing else, the Motivate Charisma ability would allow you to apply double your Charisma modifier on charisma based skill checks (though Master of Tactics -- party adds your charisma to damage rolls while flanking -- is quite nice as well).
(My first character was a bard, and I was playing in a Munchkin heavy group, so I had considered several absurdly powerful builds before deciding to abandon the Way of the Bard at tenth Level and focus on my Dragonmark Heritage)
Though, if you're going to play a bard, I would heartily advise that you not play "Psychotic Evil". Bards don't have the combat prowess to stand up to the punishment that's guaranteed to inflict. I recommend "Manipulative Evil". For example, charging into Battle wielding a Fleshgrinding Scythe of Master-Slaying (Book of Vile Darkness), and throwing it down in "Surrender" the first time someone hits you (even if they only hit your armor) is a particularly vicious tactic, if you're capable of hitting their flat-footed AC.
(Holy crap, I rambled...)
As to playing a bard: just don't expect to do any ass-kicking and you won't be dissapointed. There's only one thing that bards do well (as opposed to mediocre), and that's TALK. Diplomcacy, bluff, intimidate and sense motive are your best friends but just accept that in a fight the most valuable thing you can do will be to Inspire Courage.
As to playing an evil bard: As was mentioned, don't go down the psychotic route. Think of a celebrity that is in showbiz purely for the $$$ and to get laid: that's an evil bard! I can't remember his name, but there is a rock star that freely tells people that he keeps track of how many fangirls he has nailed (apparently 1000+)...and everyone still loves him!
As to prestige classes...I have no idea. I don't use them (for any character) very often. All I can say is don't take a PrC just to take a PrC!!! All the base classes are powerful enough no matter their level (and yes, I'm including even the Fighter!), and the bard is no exception.
Yup, a Shameless Hedonist is definitely a working concept for an evil bard. As is Evil Mastermind and Crooked Politician. They make fine assassins too.
Heads of different guilds have to deal with politics and it would be no surprise if head of assassins' or thieves' guilds had at least some levels of bard...if not be full bards.
At least for me the idea of really evil bard works much better than, say, evil cleric or barbarian. The latter would probably be rather straightforward and reliable while an evil bard can be a really villainous ba***rd (pun intended).
The above posters are right on as to their thoughts about the way of the evil bard. In addition, keep these things in mind. Consider these excerpts from the "How to Successfully Play an Evil PC Handbook." :)
1. Don't be psychotic evil. This CAN be done successfully, but only with the right type of character (generally a damage-heavy one like a mage or warrior type) and only in the right setting. FAR more often, what you get is "Stupid Evil", which doesn't mesh with the party at all and eventually just gets himself killed. This is the type of character that will kill someone as soon as look at them with the sole justification being, "I'm evil." Think of classic evil villains from films- Darth Vader didn't kill everyone he saw, but was deffinately evil. Hannibal Lecter would be your best friend until he ate your liver with a side of fava beans. (Insert wierd hissing noise here).
2. Feeding in with the above post, conceal your evil. The bard and rogue are the BEST types to do this, and this is the BEST type of evil for them. Be a mastermind. You might not be a strong warrior that can slice your foes in two with a single backhanded swing of your blade, a sinister wizard that can blast your foes with fire and summon demons. But, what you CAN do is obtain, conceal, and manipulate information so that those characters do exactly what you want. Talk with your DM. See if he will allow you to do most of your major NPC interactions separately from the rest of the party, with some plausible excuse for why this is happening. Then step out of the room, play through the interaction, think about what this information means, and then come back to the party and tell them what you want them to know. This also establishes a routine of you going off by yourself, so you can do this without drawing much suspicion. Then you can engage in nefarious dealings without tipping off the restof your party. Even in an "evil" party, this is very important so that you can retain your secrets and webs of deception.
3. But, you seem to be wondering how a bard could be evil. The same way as anyone else. Just because he performs music doesn't mean he's some whimsical pansy that has no real ability to perform serious evil. There are several ways to go about motivation for being evil that aren't obvious by just saying, "Be and evil mastermind." Remember that a bard has an average attack bonus and magical abilities, many of which affect the mind. Thus, you can decide that your bard doesn't consider himself so much a "bard" in the conventional sense, but rather a fighter-mage with powers over the mind. A Truenamer (Tome of Magic) that I'm currently playing considers himself a fighter-mage with a slightly atypical focus of magic, not a "truenamer." This allows you to have the same evil motivations as any other class, and gives you a clearer character concept and direcction to go with skills and feats.
You could also go for an evil artist. More magic oriented, this person considers his art to be a focus for his evil spells. He weaves dark magic into his songs to fill his allies' hearts with fury or to crush his opponents' wills. He is elegant and loves the refined and classy, and is very spiritual, but uses his powers for his own personal, dark motives. This, again, gives a clearer character concept and direction for skills and feats. You may want to look into a Disciple of Asmodeus here (Book of Vile Darkness).
Just remember that simply because someone is an artist doesn't mean that they are some type of fop, incapable of the same feelings, motivations, and means to an end (for good or evil) that anyone else can have.
One more thing- does the MM state that only sorcerers, wizards, and clerics can become liches? I think it might, but I clearly remember a bard lich in the Libris Mortis. Clarification, please?
Checkout "And Madness Followed..." for a group of evil bards.
Bards! As the villains! Brilliance. :D
-The Gneech
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Checkout "And Madness Followed..." for a group of evil bards.
Bards! As the villains! Brilliance. :D
Or Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds.
Oh, yes, bards are delightful bad-guys. I especially like Magdelena's track of the Crooked Polititian...using that silver tongue to smear the opposition (uh, that's not quite the image I intended at first, but go with it). And Saern is right, subtly and secrecy are the perfect watchwords for an evil bard. Granted almost all bards are storytellers at heart, so you'll want an excellent Bond-villain-esque monologue toward the end where he has to gloat over the puny manipulated PCs...but a perfect plan is not perfect if no one is around to know it's been effective.
Psycotic could work in a very limited capacity...think Phantom of the Opera where the bad bard has an intimate knowledge of the setting, MANY potential traps, and several escape routes to leave and lay low, but generally psychos die pretty quickly.
There's a new class in the PHBII (I think) called Jester. Its a bard who uses his music and wit not to pump up and inspire his comrades, but to deflate his enemies. You know, the guy who is constantly mocking people in such a cutting way that they can't think straight. Might be something you could look into.
Oh, by the way, when playing and evil character (or any character for that matter) trying asking yourself why he feels the way he does about life, what happened to him, or didn't happen, that made him the way he is. Try to make sure that everything that the character is has plenty of why behind it. Doing this will help you make a more complete and full character, you won't regret the extra time spent!
There's a new class in the PHBII (I think) called Jester.
Jester is in Dragon Compendium Volume I, not PHBII. :-P
Thanks everyone, now I have a greater understanding and I am working on that background. I would really like to say I am ready to make an evil bard but no matter what I would still like more comments on evil bards. My DM will be suprised I already have a backstory. And agian thank you to everyone I will check back later.
~Love The Flabulater
Thanks everyone, now I have a greater understanding and I am working on that background. I would really like to say I am ready to make an evil bard but no matter what I would still like more comments on evil bards. My DM will be suprised I already have a backstory. And agian thank you to everyone I will check back later.
~Love The Flabulater
Woot! I dont have to do the background this time!
No, wait, now I can't pre-plan adventure hooks for your background! NO! Darn you...
I got the background, so Onrie if your reading here it is. Oh and everyone else hope you enjoy.
Gubbaffet was along time ago, a great village fiddeler! And everyone enjoyed his spirit lifting music. Most of the villagers thought he was a good soul, and the rest that knew he was a heavy gambler never told another person. Gubbaffet gambled in the woods where he would meet travelers, he would gamble at discrete places, and occasionaly at the local inn. He enjoyed it, and with a silver tounge and quick hands thought he was tied to a fate of good fortune...well that's what he thought. Now every so often he would lose, but that didn't get him to pay his due. Nope he was a happy go getting gnome that could play with spirit and held his head up high whatever he was doing. As he aged and grew...so did his debts. He owed more than he had, alot more than he had. "Theres just a bunch of blowover gnomes, what would they do, who cares if I don't pay a my dues?"
Well, one night he went to a usual spot in the woods just outside of the village. He played a good game but in the end lost. "Now you gotta pay up Gubba, and pay up NOW!" Yet he didn't infact he told the other gambler that he would never pay, and that he could care less about it. He walked away confident and sure nothing was to happen...but something happened, something that changed his life forever.
Gubbaffet was sleeping one night and his door was slammed open. Yells came into the small home. His door opened, and the gambler the had just played with came in. Gubbaffet was knocked cold with a good shot from a club and the next thing he saw was the hard ground of a certain inn cellar. For nearly a year Gubbaffet was paying off debt by fiddling day and night. One night he decided to put a message in one of the bottles of wine and knowing that his friends came oftenly and that they liked a certain type he hoped they would get it. After a week or so they got another one down after puting it in a delivery cart filled with bottles of wine.
The plan was to poision the captives and to make them pay for what they have done. Gubbaffet unsure if he was the evil one or if they were the evil ones still went along with it. The message also included a poision to paralyze the drinkers. After putting it in he hoped that no one would notice it was opened. And fortune has it that they didn't. They drank one night, and the next day were very ill. At night Gubbaffet and his friends were to sneak into the houses of the captives, and soon to captured. While his friends killed the 4 men that had helped the gambler he entered the gamblers house...
"Well well well what do we have here? A certain gambler in which owes me now. For all the pain you put me through I thing a little 'pay'back is in order, hmm don't you think?" said Gubbaffet with a horrible grin. He decided not to kill the gambler but to make him a slave. The control had changed something in Gubbaffet, and now his silver tounge was used more for horrible cons and scams rather than for a snappy youngster. He managed to keep the gaurds off of his case. Eventually he relived the gambler of his services by blindfolding him and shoving him off a cliff. He hadn't even cared to hear the mans name. Off set Gubbaffet Fingersnitch, a gnome lier of evil proportions. Betraying, coning, and taking control of the weak willed. Now to this very day he is a traveler and has never lost a gamble, con, or scam after that incident. Gubbaffet Fingersnitch has no idea what he's going to do other than cheat, and has no idea to what he's getting himself into...
Please tell me how you liked it, constructive critisism is always good. And Onrie there is your background. Thank you for listening(reading) and I will check back later.
~Love the Flabulator
I played a Dirge Singer once. Actually he was a dirge singer/master of the shroud, both out of Libris Mortis. To give a little background I was invited into a friends ongoing campaign. The character I had to integrate with was a psychopath. He was an intelligent construct determined to finish of the last of his race. As I wanted integration to be a little more smooth than a quick chat leading up to rolling initiative I created a character who was interested in a person who would wish such a fate for himself. To make a long story short, my character was convinced sorrow was the only path to wisdom in life. Joy is a mask and a drug people used to cover up what was really happening around them. Only by accepting sorrow can one understand life. Much like a loviten (sp?) but dedicated to sorrow instead of pain. His outlook in life eventually lead him to a god he could identify with which is where he got his cleric/master of the shroud levels. He particularly enjoyed summoning the ghosts of the deceased (some of whom he had made that way himself) so that he could feel their last thoughts and revel in their regrets. He would take this newfound grief to compose more dirges to spread the truth of sorrow. He enjoyed bitter irony more than straight forward suffering. If he could have read Othelo he would have dug it. Thus he was drawn to this being who would wish upon himself the loneliness and horror of being the last of his kind, and even more impressive was willing to take the necessary steps to make it happen. He thought following this construct might allow him to learn more about the driving force of sorrow. At the least it would give him some material to write a truly horrible dirge. My character spent his free time spreading sorrow with his music in taverns, on the street, or wherever he could get away with it really. His weapon of choice for this was a magic lyre that created the effects of a defile spell around it whenever it was played. Man, he was creepy to play *shivers*.
There are a few problems with playing a character as openly evil as this though. One of which is that you HAVE NO FRIENDS. Lawful good people want to bring you to justice, chaotic good people will kill you because of what you stand for, neutrals will try to do the same because they fear you and want you off the streets. Lawful evil people think your bad for business and chaotic evil people are hard to trust anyways. Just my opinion as to why psychos don’t live to long. The con artist has a much longer life expectancy. Nice job on the back story, btw. I liked the explanation as to why he turned away from his former life. Evil is very seductive, just ask Anakin Skywalker :) Also, your idea has a good chance of getting along in a group without getting killed within minutes. Saern is right on about evil/dumb characters. In many instances evil and good characters can travel together in relative peace. Samurai Champloo is a good example. You have chaotic evil Mugen, lawful neutral Jin, and chaotic good Fuu all traveling together, although their relationship does have occasional bumps :)
On a lighter note I once played an almost evil bard. His name was Tebel. Tebel had been a bard for years, vaunting the deeds of others to the world. With each passing story this rankled him more and more. It came to the point that he decided to prove that he was just as good as the heroes in the stories that he had told for such a long time. To this end he used the money he had saved up to buy a huge axe (far bigger than he could swing effectively) and chain armor and make his way into the world. Tebel became a bit of a historical revisionist, dedicating himself to airing out all the dirty laundry of heroes just to prove that they were no more than ordinary men. He was a bitter cynic to put things mildly. Indeed, Tebel was far from loveable. He also had abysmal stats, but was always the first to charge so that he could prove that he was just as good as everybody else. Lol, I am amazed he actually lived through the first session, however his will continue to get him into fights he has no right to survive on an alarmingly regular basis. To his credit he is completely fearless. Loads of fun to play him. Well, if you are still reading this I will apologize for a long and windy post. Good luck with your character, hope this helps.
There's a new class in the PHBII (I think) called Jester.Jester is in Dragon Compendium Volume I, not PHBII. :-P
Heh, heh, oops *big sheepish grin* I guess thats what I get for not checking my sources.
Not a bad back story, Flabulator. I like the concept of a guy who turned to evil because he tried it, and liked it! A manipulative control freak who loves nothing more than to coerce, cheat and lie to get what he wants. A good path for an evil bard (put plenty of points into your social skills!) lots of insidious opportunities. Keep in mind that you probably don't want to back stab your friends, after all, you need them to help watch you back. You will just want to make sure that everything that goes on will eventually lean to your advantage.
Let me throw my voice in to agree that a sociopathic control freak, if played well, can be a lot of fun. The really frightening thing about sociopaths and serial killers is that they lead completely normal lives outside of their "hobbies". Grinning skull helmets and spiked pauldrons are fun and all, but it will be much more insidious and villainous to play a character that is capable of convincing friends to do their dirty work, without even leaving a hint as to their true nature. If you have the stomach for iambic pentameter (and not everyone does, but it's worth a shot) do a little character research by reading Bill Shakespeare's Othello. Iago is a perfect example of how well an evil manipulator can wreak havoc on all those around him.
The main thing is making sure that you are indispensable to the rest of the party. Being the 'mouth' with all the charm and social skills, as well as a reliable support character that manages to use a bardic cure light wounds spell or charge from a wand just in time to save a companion from death's door, or the guy that hangs back and provides that nice bonus to hit and damage with a good perform check can really pay off. Make sure that your goals are the party's goals (or at least seem to be on the surface) so that everyone just assumes you're "one of the good guys".
Right now Gubbaffet Fingersnitch (my Bard) has moved into a big town and lives in an apartment. He is close by to a local tribe with barbians and the like. And Gubbaffet has decided that he would check it out. He found a barbarian and thought that in the long run a body-gaurd would help, so he was about to be exiled anyway(he tried to seduce tribe leaders wife...) and now he is my faithful companion. He's also and actual PC, that's just how we met. So, now with my body-gaurd it will be easier to get around, and alot easier to make connections with local guilds. And making connections is my next move. And the coolest part is that everyone I con thinks i'm a good person... Thanks everyone for the explenation of Evil+Bard.
Yes I also have this con that I can pull off and have been thinking about. Well i'm going to get a bunch of animal skulls and carve them to look like a dragon skull. Than I will enter town and yell out in the town square "I have slain the Black Dragons for you" and everyone is probably going to say yay if the bluff is good enough, but if not some are going to say they didn't have a dragon problem. Then I say "That's what you think but look at this," then I pull out skulls "So if you want me get the rest of them I would like pay, and remember only I know where they abide." Then I run out to the woods for a day and come back, my armor will be all ripped and stuff, but it's really just me using a dagger and ripping up my clothing. Than they pay me!<----that's the best part...
~Love The Flabulater!!!
I can imagine an evil bard having a freaky look and musical style that's way out in left field -- think of him/her as the Marilyn Manson, King Diamond, Ozzy Osbourne or other goth/industrial/metal singer of the middle ages (no, I'm not suggesting he actually play electric guitar--I'm going for image, atmosphere, and overall effect rather than a specific sound). His music/art would be positively shocking to mainstream (presumably conservative) society, and would inspire legions of discontented people (mainly youths, or members of a particularly "oppressed" ethnic background or social class eager to strike back violently at their "oppressors"?). The bard might even make use of certain drugs in order to perform or gain the inspiration to write his songs, and might even become an addict (see the BoVD for rules on addictions). He would use his high charisma to seduce people (throughout this post, it should be evident that "he" could be substituted with "she").
There would be warnings about the music causing "possession", "thought control," "addictions" and even "suicide" among its listeners... in some cases, the warnings might even be justified. Some listeners would become fanatics, and the bard's following would take the form of a cult. His music might even be divinely inspired -- and he might be the demon/god's herald on earth. Those who attend his shows might go into a frenzy, inciting riots, destroying property, etc. His concerts would be banned, the authorities would seek to arrest him, etc. Anyway, just an idea...
As an aside, it's worth noting that in certain folk tales (and religious traditions), fiddlers are said to be possessed by the devil, music itself is sometimes considered sinful or satanic, and certain classical music pieces ("Carmina Burana") reputedly have satanic associations (this piece used to play when Ozzy Osbourne would take the stage in the early '80s).
Hmmm... looks like I've just created a NPC for my own campaign!
One should also consider the existence of humanoid bards -- I don't think I've ever seen one in print. I'm thinking that monstrous orc (or is it an uruk-hai) that's howling and urging the orcish legion onward at Helm's Deep in "The Two Towers" could have made a good bard -- add a war drum to the howling/chanting, and you've got music that will launch the troops into a killing frenzy!
Yes, evil bards have so much untapped potential...
Fiddling satanic? Odd, that must be why they made the song Devil Went Down To Georgia a song about fiddling huh... I like the idea of people going crazy and rioting against "The Man". Maybe I am a herald of a god or demon but just don't know it. I hope i'm not, but my DM can make a harmless idea into a harsh reality...I just gave him a bad idea! Oh and I don't play the fiddle like in classic songs, I play it really fast so it screaches and makes sparks, but people still love it. Just saying that because some people might think fiddling is for little classical oldies.
~Flabulater OUT!
My charcter is a bard/ranger, but even though she's good, my group always forces me to play her like she's evil. At least now I know how to do that right.