It seems that Dungeon and to an extent even Wizards of the Coast have been really tapping the nostalgia factory for their articles, and adventures. I think theres nothing wrong with nostalgia but at the same time it is somewhat disconcerting to be part of D&D culture and still have some shared experiences barred from me. I've never played a 1e dungeoncrawl, and my only experience of the Realms are the ultra-fun Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale games. Oh and endless references to some drow guy ;).
So let's hear it, what was so awesome about that Temple of Elemental Evil?
Why is it that the Barrier Peaks piqued your interest?
And for those who are like me, who think that the most horrible thing about the Tomb of Horrors is that our players might get bored with so many traps and so little chance to show off their roleplay skills. What is it you enjoy about todays adventures, and what are you nostalgic about when you, like me only began playing at 3.0?
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It seems that Dungeon and to an extent even Wizards of the Coast have been really tapping the nostalgia factory for their articles, and adventures. I think theres nothing wrong with nostalgia but at the same time it is somewhat disconcerting to be part of D&D culture and still have some shared experiences barred from me. I've never played a 1e dungeoncrawl, and my only experience of the Realms are the ultra-fun Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale games. Oh and endless references to some drow guy ;).
So let's hear it, what was so awesome about that Temple of Elemental Evil?
Why is it that the Barrier Peaks piqued your interest?
And for those who are like me, who think that the most horrible thing about the Tomb of Horrors is that our players might get bored with so many traps and so little chance to show off their roleplay skills. What is it you enjoy about todays adventures, and what are you nostalgic about when you, like me only began playing at 3.0?
Most, if not all of these are available for download. You need to read them. What was your first adventures? In 20 years you will look back on them and give a sigh for nostalgia's sake. Sometimes explainations can't capture an ideas spirit, kinda a "you had to be there thing". I could tell you that the Tomb of Horrors was the ultimate "Gygaxian" dungeon but that won't have any meaning to you. I could tell you how odd it was to go through the Barrier Peaks and finding the alien technology therein, but that is a fairly common occurrance in the game now. I noticed on another thread that you had a character with a magic pistol that was Gestalted. Barrier Peaks wouldn't be much of a surprise to someone who started out the game with pistols, but when it came out there was no similarities to any other modules.
People played differently back in 1st Ed., character death happened all the time. Save vs. Death meant you were always one bad role away from starting a new character no matter how skilled your character was. People bragged about reaching 7th level without dying. You didn't get raised from the dead often.It was a totally different game, just like 3.X will be totally different from 6.25 and newbs will ask you why you have such fond memories of _________ because it seems to them like combat was more like moving around chess pieces or something.
Anyway all of the modules you mention have been copied and imitated and their ideas harvested and regurgitated to such a degree that they may not seem like anything special to people who haven't played through them originally. Still no reason to knock 'em. All the modules mentioned were new and original to gamers in the late 70's through the 80's.
The Sunless Citadel is fast becoming a nostalgic module. Why? It was new to many people and introduced 3.0 to many people.
My first car was a 69 mustang (in 88), it had a 302 and looked/ran like crap. I'd take that car over most new cars anyday. Why? Nostalgia. BUT if I want to revisit that feeling I can buy the new mustang with a style that mimics the 69 and not have to worry about updating and finding old parts to update the old. Nostalgia is a powerful force. Just wait till you start feeling nostalgic over things like songs, games, places, etc. then you will understand.
FH
This is all good stuff, its interesting to hear this from the previous gamer generation. Since I was introduced to the game from a different period understanding the mindset of a gamer who started in an older edition of D&D is interesting to me.
I read Dungeon and Dragon, and when they throw in those vague references to the shared experience adventures, like Barrier Peaks et al I feel I've missed out on a key piece of D&D history. At the same time I'm enjoying the game as an evolving animal.
I'm running my players through the Shackled City Adventure Path, and I'm getting a sense of community via playing this series of adventures that I didn't really have before.
I'm not knocking what has come before, but because I'm not looking through nostalgic glasses I can see its not to my tastes, since I began playing long since D&D became far removed from its Fantasy Wargame roots.
One last note, that pistol was a flintlock dealio, so not too far removed from fantasy. It was a pain in the tuchus to load, in general I'd get one shot and start cutting up the enemies :).
...So let's hear it, what was so awesome about that Temple of Elemental Evil? Why is it that the Barrier Peaks piqued your interest? ...
They were original, creative, and novel in their conception. Subsequent adventures rarely made such long-lasting impressions (with one or two exceptions). In fact, a number of the more recent adventures were 'Return to...' products.
The list of 'classic,' unforgettable adventures includes (and is almost limited to) these series
1) A Slave Lords
2) G Against the Giants
3) D Drow
4) T Temple of Elemental Evil
5) S Tomb of Horrors/Tsojcanth/Barrier Peaks/White Plume Mountains
6) Ravenloft
IMHO. Most of these are closely associated with the Greyhawk setting, which I think may partly explain the endurance of the campaign world, even when official support was absent. That's particularly interesting given that they were (for the most part) highly generic in form.
For what it's worth :)
Jack
well, i've been at this a long time, since the original chainmail supplements came out. The shared experience is what most people are nostalgic for. i mean, i'll bet there are thousands of gamers out there who remembered what happened the first time they went through the Caves of chaos and the kobold lair. and they like to relive these with other gamers who remember the same thing. how did you fight the 4 armed gargoyle in the tomb of horrors? or what ahppened the first tmie you tried to turn on that plasma gun you found in the barrier peaks? (explosion?) if you are at a con, or even your freindly local game store, listen in on a conversation you hear when the older guys are talking about the good old days. "I remember when we faced off against the fire giant and his wife!" "Oh yeah, i remember that, man, we got stomped!" "hey, did you ever go through the keep on the borderlands?" "yeah, remember that minotaur? jeez, he killed 3 of us before we managed to escape his lair." "Oh my god, you managed to escape? we got lost in his maze."
here's the thing though, you'll be having the same conversations about the dungeons you are going through nowadays. you and your gaming buddies will be talking about the sunless citadel, and the shackled city, and all those with other gamers who did the same thing. meanwhile, other newer gamers who are playing the latest version will be going "huh?dude, those adventures sucked." ahhh... good times.
you'll see. give it time.
...here's the thing though, you'll be having the same conversations about the dungeons you are going through nowadays. you and your gaming buddies will be talking about the sunless citadel, and the shackled city, and all those with other gamers who did the same thing. meanwhile, other newer gamers who are playing the latest version will be going "huh?dude, those adventures sucked." ahhh... good times.
you'll see. give it time.
I only half-agree. They (we) will be talking about Shackled City, I'm sure; I doubt the same will be true for Sunless Citadel.
Good adventures haven't come out of TSR/WotC for a long time. Luckily, Dungeon now seems to be a reliable source for campaigns that are high-quality, creative, and epic in scope. They are my heroes :)
Regards,
Jack
It seems that Dungeon and to an extent even Wizards of the Coast have been really tapping the nostalgia factory for their articles, and adventures. I think theres nothing wrong with nostalgia but at the same time it is somewhat disconcerting to be part of D&D culture and still have some shared experiences barred from me. I've never played a 1e dungeoncrawl, and my only experience of the Realms are the ultra-fun Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale games. Oh and endless references to some drow guy ;).
So let's hear it, what was so awesome about that Temple of Elemental Evil?
Why is it that the Barrier Peaks piqued your interest?
And for those who are like me, who think that the most horrible thing about the Tomb of Horrors is that our players might get bored with so many traps and so little chance to show off their roleplay skills. What is it you enjoy about todays adventures, and what are you nostalgic about when you, like me only began playing at 3.0?
I've been thinking about "nostalgia" quite a bit recently, and I have decided that I am not fond of it. In regard to D&D, I have played some old adventures, and generally, they are not as much fun for me as newer adventures. Yes, I have enjoyed some, but those games are over, and I don't want to replay them -- I want to play something that I haven't seen before.
I think it's great that the old modules are now available as PDFs for cheap and that some modules have been 3.5'ified and made available for *free*. However, my preference is for a minimum of this in the magazines. I need to say here that both Dragon and Dungeon have been phenomenal of late; there's only the occasional adventure or article that I don't like. For adventures, it usually those that are trying to be nostalgic: incredibly steeped in detailed backstory and death-trap dungeons jump to mind.
So Nighthunter, I'm with you. I just don't understand the desire to relive an experience. I want to create new experiences. I'd love to see more of that.
As an aside, I just purchased and downloaded the original Fiend Folio. I was stunned by the amount of monsters that were updates from it. Not that some don't deserve it, but it was a little dismaying initially: not because they were updated but because such a large portion of what we have is merely updates. I certainly hope that trend stops before we get to creatures like the Flail Snail. There were a lot of stinkers in that book. :)
Just my preferences. Cheers. :)
yeah, or the C.I.F.A.L. Or protien polymorph. uggnh. yes, i agree the sunless citadel is not the greatest, and for the most part 95% of the dungeons and adventures i have been running of late have been from the pages of Dungeon magazine. i recently took a high level party through an updated "city of the ghouls" adventure from wolfgang baur using material from the libris mortis. that adventure was fun. Wotc hasn't put out a good adventure for a while, and most of the time i get nostalgic for the old greats and use those from time to time. my players, all old school like me, love it when i reintroduce one from the past. oldies but goodies, i always say. :)
One thing that's great for me is the video game adaption of Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a great game, and a neat intro into the retro gaming era for those of us (yeah, me too) who really only got our start in D&D in the Baldur's Gate game era.
I'd really recommend it. It's very well done--reminds me of the old Baldur's Gate game, but HARDER.
Anyhow hope that helps. It's rough to be the new kid ;)
I love reminiscing about running old adventures. The one thing about old modules is that they were usually easily adapted to whatever flavor was running through your campaign at the time.
I even once ran the Village of Hommlet in reverse, with the party lairing at the ruined castle and attacking the village.
I mostly loved the fact that back then we had plenty of time to game and plenty of willing gamers to game with. Is nostalgia overrated? I don't think so; if nostalgia adds to your enjoyment of the game, let it flow. 90% of my nostalgia comes from the time I spent with my friends and not from the game mechanics as much.
I figure 20 years from now I'll be reminiscing about my current campaigns. By that time it'll be hard to remember the '80's anyway, ha ha.
Actually, my favorite gaming nostalgia time was the early 1990's, because most of my friends were in college. While we all had classes and jobs, we still found time to game quite a bit. We had the added benefit of more money, more freedom (cars), our own places, a more diverse gaming group demographic (more women, not just the ROTC geeks and wrestling jocks), and we just had more fun developing good role-playing and complex campaign concepts. During that time we played a lot of Spacemaster, Cyberspace, FASA and Top Secret as well as AD&D 2e.
What I liked about early AD&D was that were so many gaps, , that is, not everything was codified and indexed etc.
You could and did use house rules to cover unexpected situations.
The adventures were all new and fresh. Weird at times but always interesting. We were all hungry for more to and TSR was producing good, innovative stuff until late 1986. Temple of Elemental Evil was the pinnacle of the good times. TSR saw how well it sold and decided to repackage Slave lords as a super module and the giants/drow/Q series as a super module.
More was to come, the s series made into super module, followed by the basic b1-b9 super module. It was like the need increase revenues started to overwhelm quality control.
By 1988 new campaign D&D worlds and adventures were flooding the market. And they really, really varied trendously in quality. My own personal view is that if not for Ed Greenwodd, TSR would have collpased in 1990 from the sheer volume of crap that was coming out.
That is why I get nostalgic. The old adventures are somewhat archaic, but they were made with care and love. The midle era D&D adventures of 1987-1995 with the exception of Ed Greenwodd's stuff were pure crap designed to make a fast buck.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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There are a couple of exceptions. Carl Sargent's "City of Skulls" is probably my favorite from the era, as are most of his sourcebooks. As far as adventures go, however, after the Gygax era and the end of Tracey Hickman's modules there's not a lot to cheer about.
--Erik
Hey Erik, what are the odds of having a 1-page column running every few months with a few playtesters going through various adventures put out by other companies? Kind of like how fiction magazines have book reviews... It'd be great for the readers, because we could see what new and interesting other adventures are coming out, and it'd be good for the publishers because they'd have a chance of getting their products more visibility, and it'd be good for Paizo because I know I for one would love to see it and I suspect other people would too... :-)
There are a couple of exceptions. Carl Sargent's "City of Skulls" is probably my favorite from the era, as are most of his sourcebooks. As far as adventures go, however, after the Gygax era and the end of Tracey Hickman's modules there's not a lot to cheer about.
--Erik
Until Dungeon :)